Why is D1 not considered a top SM?

Recently saw a thread on the top SM HF's in terms of performance and how well they are expected to do. Every single list only contained top MM spinouts like Candlestick, Ilex, etc. I do agree that these funds will probably do very well, as their founders were all top PM's at the best MM's, so they obviously are very sharp. I also understand why Tiger Cubs have been receiving so much criticism lately (I will never understand why LP's would pay Tiger 2/20 to simply buy meta, microsoft, google, and amazon when they can just do that themselves). 

However, I think Sundheim is extremely smart, has a proven track record, and was up 20.4% in the first half of this year. That being said, why is D1 not considered a top SM HF? 

30 Comments
 

Fair point. So do you think the entire L/S model should be under scrutiny unless you run it market neutral like the MM's do? 

 
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Your logic:

sundheim is smart: ok? A lot of people are really smart. OUTCOMES is what matters. If intelligence was the end all be all, then track records would be correlated with IQ….but they arent

sundheim has a track record: ok? So do a lot of people. His track record is from his viking days. What about his track record in the years as a standalone fund?  A lot of people have track records. You’ll find people with great performance in the first 10 years and bad in the last 10 years. You can’t live off the first 10 forever into perpetuity


sundheim is up YTD: brother, the market is up over 20% YTD. Take his 4 year track and annualize it vs the s&p. Is this the result you aspire for?

OUTCOMES >>>>>>>>>>> prestige 

 
  • surface level research/lack of depthness in their research

  • cap on comp

  • end up piling into consensus longs/shorts, and when they are differentiated, it’s for really stupid reasons

  • senior analysts I know there have horrible processes which does not bode well for someone junior

  • out of the control of an analyst, but seemingly zero portfolio construction/risk mgmt mechanisms in place, still below HWM, and seems like DS’s track record was “making $ running 60 net in a bull market at Viking”
 

Sundheim is a steller investor. Don't think that's ever been debatable. However, systematizing your investment process and building a firm which invests like you is not straight forward. Alot of successful investors have tried to "code-ify" their process when they need to manage a firm, with mixed success. MM spin offs like Woodline and Ilex are favoured bc they are run by consistent top performers at Citadel, and their risk focused way of delivering consistent alpha is in high demand among allocators at the moment, whereas the directional approach is less in favour.

 

Because their returns haven't been comparable to most top SMs for something like a decade. They're not even a top performer among the tiger cubs or grandcubs for the last 4-5 years and have become a typical long beta consensus junky that got stomped during the mean reversion. HF doesn't give a fuck about your prestige they care about how much money you're making.

"If you don't have any enemies in life you have never stood up for anything" - Winston Churchill | "It's a testament to the sheer belligerence of the profession that people would rather argue about the 'risk-adjusted returns' of using inferior tooth cleaning methods." - kellycriterion
 

The number of clowns on this forum has gotten to an all time high. 

 

Have any of you guys actually looked at the returns since inception or read the investor letter from last week....? Idk but ~15% after fees since inception is pretty solid in my book. Yah 2022 was tough, publics were down like 40% and the main fund down like 30% but they are above HWM again, ~15% annualized return since inception... idk pretty decent to me and he is a smart dude.  

 
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DLJHighYield

Have any of you guys actually looked at the returns since inception or read the investor letter from last week....? Idk but ~15% after fees since inception is pretty solid in my book. Yah 2022 was tough, publics were down like 40% and the main fund down like 30% but they are above HWM again, ~15% annualized return since inception... idk pretty decent to me and he is a smart dude.  

Yeah but not on this forum infested with mm pod advocates. Good luck convincing any of them that it's not just beta and being long 1-2 tech coverage stocks

 

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