! Australian Student looking to do Exchange to get into IB in New York - Would Stoney Brook Uni or Berkeley CA Be Better?
I am an Australian Student looking to get straight into Investment Banking in New York as a graduate rather than take the traditional route of doing Australian IB then transferring internationally. I graduate in November 2024.
My Plan:
- I already have several boutique Investment Banking experiences - as such will likely/am confident I will get an Australian BB over the summer next year 2023 (Australian Summer is November to February).
- Will start networking with New York bankers now over call/email/zoom
- Take an exchange semester in "fall semester" to meet with bankers in person and be in person for American recruiting season
- Go back to Australia to do BB internship (Nov 2023 - Feb 2024)
- I am then planning to leverage that to get an American summer analyst stint in New York in 2024 (I'm thinking applying to MS/GS with MG/GS already on my resume with a return offer may tip the odds in my favour despite being international).
- I would then graduate in November 2024 and hopefully join June 2025 in America the next year. Will enjoy my freedown between those times while it lasts!
First, I was wondering from the perspective of an American if you think this plan is reasonable?
Second, I was wondering which University I should take the exchange to or whether it is even neccessary to take an exchange?
I know you guys care a lot about "target schools" ecetera but the best U.S. Uni I am offered by my exchange program is UC Berkeley. I could also go to NY Stoney Brook. Would the name brand of Berkely be more important or would the networking upside of Stoney Brook be more worth it?
Also would U.S. banks view target schools the same way for an international as they do American students? My highschool grades are equivalent to a SAT of 1550 when I converted it over so its not like I couldn't get in I think (excuse my ignorance if I am wrong - learning an entirely new school system here!) - I am literally just in a different country.
Alternatively I could apply for NYU/UPenn/Harvard as an visting internation student outside of my Uni's exchange program but that would cost me a lot of money upfront...
My motive for putting myself through two recruiting seasons at once is that in Australia our choices of groups (resources) are really limited and none of which im really interested in - starting in New York would obviously offer way more learning potential, better connections, more deal flow, steeper curve, ecetera.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Edit: Also my current Uni GPA is equivalent to a 3.9/4 if thats relevant...
Sorry dude but this just isn’t going to happen
Slow down cowboy. You're probably a second year at UNSW or something, you're keen and ready to go but just slow down a bit. E.g. saying Aus banking is all resource focused is straight wrong and shows a basic lack of understanding that would get you dinged in any interview at an actual IB. Why would a US bank hire you? They don't sponsor. How are you going to network when outside the US? You'll likely have nothing in common with people (you're not from the same town or college as them) and these bankers aren't hopping on zoom with you mate. Also - Aus recruiting is probably up there with the most competitive globally for recruiting. So many highly qualified people come out with nothing (no matter how many bs interviews or society positions they had - trust me, I’ve seen it). You may be surprised at how little your "boutique IB experience" at some no name place helps you (especially if you're a male). There will be like 1500 people applying for like 1-8 spots at each bank, many with as good or better experience (and social skills) than you. I did my summer at a “mid tier” sort of place here (Jefferies/Moelis/Gresham) and we had over 1000 applicants for 3 spots. Looked at 200 great CVs and interviewed about 10 people. Nothing is for certain, unless your ‘boutique internship’ was at Allier Capital or something people just assume it’s some bs place where you didn’t learn or do shit and it counts for about as much as big4 audit. The tone of your post also suggests you may struggle with interviews if you get them (not being harsh, you’re probably like 18-20 so obviously will have some misconceptions about how it all works). So don't count your chickens before they've hatched and just focus on trying to get a summer spot in Sydney or Melbourne first. It’ll be a slog.
Yeah I know AUS banking insnt all resource focused, maquarie is good at infra, BAML is good at healthcare, Lazard does renewables, barrenjoey is doing well, jefferies is in the PE scene ecetera so sorry that statement was a bit brief to cover my full understanding. However you can agree with me that you dont get generalist M&A coverage in Australia unless you are at a boutique, you dont get the same quality of deals nor the velocity.
In terms of networking, ive already put together a list of people who live in new york who are from australia just screened from linkedin. and if americans who dont live in new york can do it whats the difference - either way youre not in person. and if the only things americans kids can relate to with american bankers is the fact that they are american that gives me even more confidence hahaha.
Thanks for the pointers on how hard the Aus market is though - ill definitely prioritise that first ... what do you mean by my tone suggests that I'll struggle? Would be good to have tips before interviews? Thanks :)
They mean you sound arrogant
Good luck though
I'm not trying to discourage you, just reigning in your expectations. Your whole plan rests on a few false premises. Getting the BB internship here will a) be much tougher than you expect and b) won't mean much. US BBs have satellite offices everywhere with thousands of employees. Having worked at one won't really improve your odds when weighed up against visa issues, generally being an outsider and not having gone to a US school. If you don't get an IB internship here (big possibility), your boutique experience or whatever big 4 vacationer spot you get will not help at all.
On your first point: American BBs/EBs are even LESS likely to give you generalist experience compared to Australia. There you are really silo'd into X coverage team from day dot (you even apply for 'JPM ECM' or 'RBC Infra' etc.). Plenty of strong banks here offer generalist programs or the ability to change groups easily/regularly, and it's quite common for analysts to work across several coverage groups.
Re quality and velocity of deals: if you are so confident you will get a BB summer internship in Aus, you should have no problem regularly doing big exciting deals... you seem to be disparaging a banking market you have no experience in and don't seem to understand that well (?). Also it's all relative. Sure, you want to work in the US because you watched a lot of finance TV shows and movies, but if you plan on living in Aus long-term what's the point? PE funds/corp dev etc. in Aus are more likely to hire analysts they have worked on the other side of a deal or have experience in ANZ/APAC than some bloke who jumped ship to the US as a grad (however unlikely, just speaking hypothetically). Pretty big consideration if you see yourself coming back here (Aus has easily the best lifestyle for corporate finance globally).
Re networking: how many analysts linkedins had the same path you're planning? It will be very very few. The most common route is lateralling or internal move within a global bank. US banks can sponsor non US citizens who went to school in the US (you did not) and no matter how much these Aussie blokes are interested in your story they're not going to vouch for you / have enough pull to make the bank hire you over an equally (or likely better) qualified US citizen.
Getting a high GPA at a target school for one semester will mean fuck all. Thousands of students from overseas do exchanges, they won't really care.
'Networking' is also a double-edged sword. If you reach out to someone you don't know and they somehow give you the time of day, you really need to impress them and speak to them/see them quite a lot to make it count. It's also easy to shoot yourself in the foot and come off as stupid, low-EQ, arrogant or desperate. MOST uni students people who reach out to me and my colleagues pretty much get black-listed form interviews because we meet them and already know we wouldn't want to work with them after a 10 minute coffee chat where they spew some BS they read on WSO or talk about how much they love finance. The only time networking actually works in your favour is if you have a strong, tangible connection to someone and you're very impressive and mature.
I did my exchange semester at Wharton, and trust me this just ain't gonna happen - they've got plenty of qualified local candidates with absolutely stacked CVs (at least the sophmores/juniors at Wharton I met were fucking sharp) and zero visa issues - look to transfer / lateral after you're an An2 or An3 if you're super keen
I'm also thinking because I go to a school that no American banks would give a shit about that getting a high GPA in a "target school" for one semester kinda validates my grades? or does it not really mean shit....
It may be hard, but why not just give it a shot? Network with other Australians that work in NYC and see if you can get some advice as well. An exchange semester is a great experience either way. Just try to get a return offer from your Australian BB internship and keep that in your back pocket if things don’t work out here.
I’m also international and most people had told me that it was impossible for me to break in, but it’s definitely doable. I would also broaden your scope a bit and not just target top BB but all kinds of banks. Once you are here and have a visa you can always lateral.
Thanks :) Yeah definitely. If you dont mind, would you be able to share some tips on how you broke in?
How did you deal with questions about your school and thus the validity of your GPA?
Also I'm assuming I'm going to have to get a WSJ subscription and read both australian and U.S. news too?
Yeah for sure. I did an internship at a LMM bank while also getting my masters in finance from Vanderbilt. If you can’t get any traction when graduating from undergrad I would highly recommend it. It’s a 10 month program and it gives you 3 years of STEM OPT visa, so banks will hire you. Since you already have a bunch of internships I’m pretty certain you would get in and also not struggle too much to find an IB job. Sure it might not be GS/MS/JPM (though possible), but most people end up at solid MMs. Regarding GPA, there should be some transfer scales online you can use to see what it would be here.
DM me mate.
anonymous :(
Not going to happen. Yes, you can network but you aren't technically a graduate or real student of that university. An exchange semester is basically just an extended vacation at a school. You can talk about it in recruiting as something fun you did, but that's about it.
Most importantly, you are not eligible for sponsorship, at least the type of sponsorship the banks will give. The internationals who do land spots have OPT visas granted from graduating from a US school, but since you went to an Australian school you will need a direct H1B visa which banks will not sponsor right off the bat for a new grad. The odds are under 20% for H1B so they're not going to waste a FT offer on someone who very likely could not get a visa.
Focus on which will give you a better or more fun experience, and go the traditional route of transferring offices down the road. Stony Brook is about 2 hours from NYC, so you could go in on weekends but it's not like you are right in the city. Berkeley is a top school, but not really a great city to be in.
Australians have this special E-3 visa with the US which they are virtually 100% likely to get if they apply for it, so there's no such "lottery" like there is for those trying to get a H1B visa.
Interesting, wasn't aware of that - thanks for sharing
Even so, still think the sponsorship is a problem. Canadians have a similar high-acceptance visa (TN) and it's very hard to get US jobs without attending a US school. Simply checking the "do you or will you ever need sponsorship" box is an auto ding at 80% of banks. You'd have to get lucky at a sponsoring bank or have a very senior connection to push you past the sponsorship issue, even if you're guaranteed a visa
If you had dual american/aus citizenship (1 parent is american) or you had strong family connections in NYC it's probably highly possible... but you didn't any of the aforementioned so assuming neither is the case. FWIW I also had the exact same idea as you
With respect, intern, you have no idea aabout what you’re talking about
would you care then to provide some insight as to how an aus kid with only an aus citizenship at an aus target can land a BB analyst position in nyc straight out of undergrad? To provide broader context, I would assume end goal is to remain in nyc long-term (no plans to return back to aus) in addition to no care in the world for WLB. This also implicitly rules out internal transfer/doing mba or w/e since it is directly out of UG. OP already laid out his background which is as good of a background as any given the circumstances for this particular situation.
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