Best Paths If You Want a Family Life
In college and recently been talking to some senior people within the industry, and its come to my attention that their lives fucking suck (imo.) Yes they make millions, but they have no real family life, no friends, and no life outside of work. It got me wondering as to what would be the best path to take if I want to have a good life in my 30s (Finished by 6-7ish?) while not making corp dev money, ideally around 400k+ in my 30s. Is this is too unrealistic to ask for?
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I’d say Corporate Banking/CIB positions could give you kinda what you’re looking for depending on the bank. Associates at my bank base salary is $150-180k I think? Not much light on VP salary but would expect 250-300k
Is this at a BB?
Realistically, I think the best answer here is to cut your teeth at a large institution as long as you can, and then move down market. You should be able to get good comp, with often less hours.
Down market?
As in going from a BB vp to a MM director and so fourth
To a little smaller firm that can use the expertise
Hard disagree. Often times, MM is often sweatier because of how unsophisticated your clients are. Unless you're talking about regional boutiques, but even that can be a toss up because of the lack of resources at your disposal.
It can be sweatier, but you have to diligence the firm. If you are working at a frim and lets say a management team takes you a month to get you everything then you have a month + some time to draft materials. If your MD is breathing down yours and the clients necks then yes you are going to have a bad time.
This really only matters at the junior level. Presumably you are more senior before moving from a BB to a MM firm. As an MD, WLB doesn’t really change if clients are less sophisticated or my firm has less junior resources. Sucks for juniors though, no doubt.
Would disagree there. Would say this is the case because MM MDs also usually have no idea how to manage unsophisticated clients. Either because they were brought up in MM and didnt have good role models or because they were shitty VPs at better places. At least that has been my experience. If you were a top performer and go downmarket with WLB in mind, would def think its doable.
My MM group is extremely chill
Kids nowadays think about exits before even getting into banking lol.
As someone who's worked in Corp dev, PE, and IB, here's my two cents:
I decided to go back to IB after the whole round coz - at least they pay and i won't get canned for making the wrong investment decision. We eventually all end up where we belong.
Hope it helps.
Was more so worried about not being able to find a balanced path if I do go into ib. Thanks for your perspective though, how was your time in corp dev?
it’s pretty sweet imo. You work on deals and strategic decisions. You have bankers working for you on the other wise while you provide comments and enjoy fully protected weekends. Base if comparable to banking but obviously you lose the bonus upside.
Prob LO AM but those seats require CFA+MBA and are really rare.
LO AM or LO at a family office - seats dont require a CFA or MBA - easily would be making 400k+ by 30
400k in your 30s (maybe not the day you turn 30) seems doable in corp dev in a VHCOL doesnt it?
Honestly have heard otherwise, if so then count me in lol
Corp Dev in tech actually pays well? Did 3 years in IB, made ~320k in Corp Dev covering a tech niche. About 6 years into the workforce, and all the roles I am exploring are 300-450k total comp, covering parts of the hardware and data center market no one wants to cover. Work hours are 9-6, weekend work is exceptionally rare, team is anti-face time, so we are hyrbid
So Corp Dev in tech is a chill life, find a larger company to go to if you wanna have a chill life. Smaller companies you wear a lot of hats but also make more
Holy dream life, would you say this is common? All the threads I’ve seen online say theyre making way less than this or to expect way less. If its uncommon, what would you recommend to maximize comp?
Tech is very boom and bust, it is not like other more stable industries. Because of this, there are windows of opportunity that you can capitalize on (e.g., going into TMT banking in 2021 when the GS TMT survey came out).
I went into semiconductor Corp Dev when AI took off and made the 320k figure as there was no talent that wanted to cover semis, everyone wanted to go to PE MF doing B2B SaaS. I am now recruiting, as there is a window to do strategy and M&A at leading AI labs and hyperscalers with outsized comp. If you are in tech, there are going to be segments that pop off every few years. When that happens, you end up having a lot of leverage
So it is not very common but very doable imo. While there are lots of bad Corp Dev jobs out there, I have a few friends in similar seats 5-7 years out of college making 300k+ as managers/sr. managers in Corp Dev in SF at startups and large tech companies - hours are a lot better than IB/PE/GE, the culture tends to be better, and esp if you're corporate than a lot of people have families
Jefferies o&g
Agreed
If you are willing to put the work in and grind and be broke for a few years, I left IB to become a wealth advisor at a BB. I love my life now. I have a family I come home to, I leave work whenever I want, travel around to meet clients and prospects and have a great time everytime. Making great money with unlimited upside in comp. I know many many advisors that make way more than the average MD and work 1/4 the hours
Honestly I wanted to do PWM but heard it greatly depends on your network and frankly I dont know any rich people (very low income lol) so decided against it. Would you disagree?
I grew up in the Bronx projects, never met anyone “rich” till I got the banking. It’s all about reaching out to folks and selling yourself, the firm and team. I know many advisors who had 0 network and just built a multi million dollar book of business with nothing but emails and a phone.
That’s exactly how I’ve done it too. I dont have a massive book yet but it’s growing.
Do you mind if I PM you? I’d love to hear more about your experience in PWM. Id like to make that exact move
also interested as a mid level banker (although those i've seen make the transition anecdotally are a bit later stage in their career?
Send it
The best semi-realistic finance lifestyle I have witnessed, by far, are senior investment bankers at a BB firms, working out of a small satellite office. Get to live in a desirable location for purely personal reasons (including taxes). Get paid a top BB salary + bonus (if they are good). Have no junior team to manage; as a result, not expected to do any heavy lifting on execution. Travel and get involved as much or as little as they want. Majority of time spent on pure sourcing activities; lots of fun client events, dinners, golf, etc.
Very few of these seats and generally only available to established senior bankers, but they are more common than you would think in spots like Miami, Denver, Seattle, Phoenix, Aspen, San Diego, etc. Pretty much every BB has some bankers with this set up, but it’s generally not well advertised and they often are officially listed as working out of NY, SF, etc.
Yo, Let us know who's got those aspen offices!
I was fortunate to have this as an analyst. The senior director in a satellite office needed an analyst and I was stationed out there by myself but staffed out of NYC. Left at 5pm when my director left but was working till late, could basically wfh on a whim and LCOL city. Was a good gig except group was shit with ass culture. My director was a chill dude tho
I don't think banks ever advertise those roles because they hand craft them for those MDs who say they want to move there and they oblige, otherwise they lose a high earner. I'm no longer in banking, but I work in tech sales at a scaleup, I get way more autonomy and sway with the founders than employees at other departments. Basically I can tell them I want to move to Miami while still covering my territory and they will most likely oblige. For the way more senior sales people (BSDs) they definitely oblige.
My boss did this for a while but got fired after a few years of not bringing in $$$. Would be very careful
I work at a boutique middle market investment bank in a Tier 2 city. We typically leave the office around 7pm during the weekdays and have limited work on the weekends. There are multiple guys in their late 20s/early 30s that are having kids and can manage to have a good family life and get paid well.
How do you differentiate the mm sweatshop teams vs the chill ones?
Usually, I have found that most people are pretty transparent when you talk to them on the phone, less so in an interview setting. So, if you can set up a networking chat, I would directly ask what their WLB/hours look like. If you can talk to someone that has exited that group/Company, that is the best option. This is super important though, one of my best friends from college works at a mm bank in the same sector as I do in a different Tier 2 city. I work 60-70 hours a week with minimal stress. He works 80-90+ consistently and is very stressed. We get comped essentially the same, he might make like 5-10k more.
The secret has been out for a while now, but PE BD at a good fund is the best job in this industry and I won’t be convinced otherwise. Maybe LO AM is a close second?
What does comp / lifestyle / responsibilities look like for this type of role? (PE BD)
also curious
Search around on here as there are plenty of posts on the topic and all of those are highly variable depending on the seat. But VP at a real MM fund you’re clipping 500k/yr, at least 2mm DAW, and when not traveling I’m home in time every night to have dinner with the fam and put the kids to bed. Oh and when traveling I basically get paid to check out new cities, golf, drink, and have nice dinners and shit.
BD is paradise.
Work in an allocator / LP job. Pay varies widely but at most endowments and foundations you could pull down that much in your 30s
Do you have any suggestions on how someone could work into that role?
You can exit direct from IB. Many smaller endowments and foundations are generalists, so you will have to teach yourself more about public markets. David Swenson's book is a good overview. Other common paths in are from OCIO and LP consultant (like Cambridge Associates or Parametric) roles, or direct from the buy side (i.e. PE Associate->cover an endowment's PE book). Less commonly, I've seen juniors from a buy-side IR role make the jump. This industry is much more accepting of various backgrounds; it's not like PE where you must have done IB or consulting before
This is a good one too. If you can make MD at a large FoF or similar LP roles, it can pay well and be pretty cushy. Tough to get there though since there tends to be little turnover for that very reason.
FoF is less cushy because there's always going to be pressure from your own LPs. But pay will be higher than other LP jobs, and you may get carry. I also personally doubt the longevity of the FoF business model. OCIOs and consultants do the same thing but are cheaper. FoFs only make sense for access reasons (like really blue chip VCs)
for these endowments ( big ones like the university endowments) would you need buyside experience?
No, plenty of people come in from IB or OCIO/investment consultant jobs. However, some endowments tend to hire alums of that school. Also, lateraling may be hard as many endowments do analyst programs and have their top performers progress through the ranks
I doubt you can pull in 400k in allocator role in pension / foundation in early 30s, it’s typically terribly slow progression just like LO AM but with lower pay, probably need to make PM-equivalent (so actual investment discretion) to hit 400k and that’s mid to late 30s at the earliest.
You can check out municipal finance. Its gets frowned upon, but you can make 500k-750k pretty easy as an MD there (more if you pick certain sectors) and find a client base that fits your target work/life balance. Everyone in it accepts the trade-off of lower pay for a 9-6 lifestyle.
Do you know much about this? Curious
Family offices are a solution, but need heavy diligence to make sure it’s the right one. But a family office of a billionaire ex-financier who hired legit folks to run it can be 40-50 hours a week and only a slight discount to MM PE (could be $600k as a principal, for example, in your mid 30’s). Again, family offices vary widely but there are gems.
RBC Metals & Mining
Pension/SWF
not at $400k, with a chill life, sorry
Possible, sorry
it's the $400k part that's unrealistic IMO
Work at accenture lol, shits a cheat code
why?
Really good wlb, respectable company, will get good reps, and comp is not that much less than MBB. A lot of people I know there have stayed there for years. It’s not like MBB or high finance where you stay for 2 and pivot.
Equity research outside of earnings season
Vista Equity Partners CHI Senior Asso+
Iykyk
Corporate banking at a BB pays really well and good Wlb. By the time you’re a VP (late twenties, early 30s) you’re pulling in $300k+. You’re also at least partially client facing at this point with execution tasks left to A&As. Get to go to nice dinners and events etc. as an MD you can be pulling in $500k+ with a pretty chill 50hr work week. Only thing is there can be some amount of travel involved.
Corporate Banking, Capital Markets (DCM, ECM, Syndicated Finance), Venture Capital/Growth Equity, Structured Products, and even Commercial Banking (relationship management or client facing product groups) if you can position yourself to a good portfolio. Have also seen folks pull in that much in Corp Dev at companies with M&A focus or working into P&L ownership roles for a large business unit. Outside of finance there are plenty of revenue generating roles that can hit $400k+ in your 30s across a variety of industries. Tough to break $250k in corporate roles unless your name is attached to tangible revenue or profitability targets (unless you're in an executive level position at a sizable company).
I'm a finance manager (FP&A/Strategic Finance) in a MCOL city, make $130k and work 40-45hrs a week at age 31. My wife makes $55k in a super easy job, so HHI is around $185k. We own a home and have a kid.
In 2 years I'll probably be around $200k all-in after I guide us through a growth equity round and hit my director promotion. VPs around here make around $250-$300k and I'll be there before 40 hopefully. It's not the kind of numbers people usually post here, but my monthly expenses (mortgage, car insurance, etc) are like $3k a month. Granted you aren't driving $75k cars and wearing Rolexes, but I also don't hate my life lol. I also referee high school basketball just for fun and that acts as a side hustle for extra spending money. Giving a coach a tech foul is serious stress relief. I even have time to lift weights 6 days a week. I'm in better shape now than I was in my 20s.
Just for reference, median household income in my metro is $77k. We're over double that and still enjoy life. It's totally do-able with "regular" jobs like Corp Fin and tier 2 consulting firms. Just be intentional and don't be a dumbass and it's not that hard.
Definitely doable in corporate banking. My VP is out of the office everyday at 5 and pulls in around $350k, doesn’t seem like he’s very stressed, if at all. Also saw a datapoint anecdotally floating somewhere of a Director who pulled in $550-$600k working like 10-20 hours a week lol not sure how accurate but pretty insane regardless
For the reverse perspective, I grew up with an MD dad at a BB and I definitely remember him being present. The VP / Director years were busier I'm sure but I was too young to remember that. By the time I was conscious he was home at a decent hour every night and always there on weekends. Took plenty of vacations throughout the year. He was definitely traveling a lot though.
This is one of the larger BBs with tons of resources and juniors though, so he could take time off and separate professional from personal life. He has explicitly told me that is not possible at leaner platforms.
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