Can I ask for an unpaid internship?
Hi guys. I am still trying hard to find an internship this summer - though it's pretty late. I contacted 20+ local firms but only one firm replied. The MD said he can talk with me over the phone but he will not hire an intern. I assume he refers the paid internship. I really want to learn something during the summer and I don't care if it is paid or not. I am wondering can I ask him during the phone call like "Do I have the opportunity to help with some small things over the summer on an unpaid basis"? Appreciate any advice
Can't hurt. My friend got his summer internship by practically begging this one VP to come in each day. The man finally obliged. My friend was told he could come in part time, unpaid. By the end of the summer he was the firm's go to intern, was paid and working full time. What do you have to lose? Show some hustle!
Thank you!
You're welcome. Good luck!
I got a sophomore IB internship this way. It was May of my sophomore year and I still didn't have an internship. I emailed all of my alumni in IB with a subject line saying I would do unpaid work as an intern. After hearing many rejections or no responses (even after following up multiple times), one MD at a small boutique finally responded saying that he loved my hunger and courage.
Because of that internship experience, I was able to secure a job in IB.
Thank you! This is inspiring!
If you're still desperately looking for this summer internship then why not. Go ahead and ask to contribute without being paid to many firms as possible.
offer an OTPHJ
Agree with this unconditionally
Get it bud. I tried this too but in LA its illegal to work for free as an intern so never worked for me :/
Dissenting opinion, if your time is so worthless that you'll work for free, why do I want you?
It's not nice to say, but the reality is that as an intern, you're probably a net negative to the firm, in that someone has to teach you and spend time getting you sorted. I don't know that I'd hire someone so desperate that they'll work for free, so it's possible that other people might have a similar opinion.
I disagree if it’s at a small boutique. It doesn’t take much training to help update slides and prepare presentation materials.
I think someone who’s willing to work an unpaid internship, shows that he/she is serious about the wanting to work in the industry.
Even having a small boutique on a resume will be huge for getting a Junior SA spot.
I guess the answer here is going to be specific to how small the shop is.
Moved from a BB to a boutique. When we were at the BB, we went through a tonne of interns, because we needed to keep hiring so many first year analysts, and you don't mind training up some kids that you won't hire, because you need to train all the kids you will hire.
At the boutique, we have made a decision that we won't have interns, partially, because we aren't going to hire them. The partners have made a decision that hiring anyone below Analyst 3 or Assoc 1 would be value destructive. Since we aren't going to hire an intern as an analyst, we aren't going to spend the time to train and develop them.
The point is that interns add virtually zero value. Analyst and Associates "waste" their time setting aside tasks for interns to do, that they then they wait and have to comb through the work, when in reality they could've done the task in an hour that may take an intern an afternoon to do. Offering to work for free shows you want to be there, and are willing to get any experience possible. Not everyone goes to a target, but some people want to work in IB badly enough to say that they will give up their time in order to learn the process.
If you don't believe that an intern's time is valueless, read Liar's Poker (I am sure you already have). Lewis mentions that during his first year at Lehman (If I recall correctly) he spent the majority of his time essentially sitting behind bankers and traders taking notes and learning how to tackle the role. Most bankers need 6 months to a full year in order to start adding value and to stop "wasting space". So then, how is a 19 year old going to surpass a college grad and start immediately adding value? They won't. Hence, why they offer to work for experience, which as every single person in investment banking will tell you, is worth far more than the 10-15 grand for a 10 week summer analyst stint anyways. People who are truly hungry will do whatever it takes to learn. I have friends who worked 2 jobs, 80 hours a week, in order to intern, unpaid, part time, at a PE fund while simultaneously doing dishes to make ends meat. Does that sound like someone you would want to hire? Maybe it's my bias here, but I sure as hell would give that kid an interview or an opportunity to learn in exchange for free work.
To your first point, it's only a waste of time if you don't hire them, or if they leave as soon as they become competent.
On one hand I take it as a compliment when my best analysts get picked up by funds, on the other, I get pissed about the amount of time I wasted training them.
To the person throwing monkey shit at me for saying that our firm will not hire below A3, sorry. Our partners decided that we are going to be advisory first, and don't want a tonne of monkeys cranking out books and models, so we have a very light junior team, and no time to train them.
Can one simply ask for unpaid work? (Originally Posted: 03/09/2013)
Had an informational interview with a mid-level worker at a boutique bank, and he told me (after I asked him about opportunities) that the firm tends to only hire from one school, but my resume doesn't look bad and I should reach out if I'm interested in interning in the future.
How do I follow up? I want to work there this summer and I'd rather work unpaid than not at all...is there a way to let him know this?
i think you should tell him that you want to work there this summer
Exactly.
u can't work unpaid at a lot of places simply because US labor laws don't allow it
I believe this is a case at many places.
Overall, I think it's an understandable thing to want to ask (Experience without $ is better than nothing). However, it seems a bit desperate and it's not something that I would probably ask. It may be easier to go out and ask something more open-ended - "I know you don't have any spots set aside for the Summer but I would really like to work here this Summer and would like to learn about any alternative options you may have..."
You should directly, and politely say (as mentioned above) that you want to wok there this summer.
As others have said, call the guy and re-affirm that you really want to work there this summer while stating a few valid reasons for justification. If that does not work, only then counter to by offering to work for free only if this boutique has historically converted internships to FT hires based on performance or business needs. Even then, your odds are low, particularly due to legal issues, but it may also work.
Thank you everyone for the responses.
A few MD's of different firms are getting back to my cold emails with positive responses willing to talk, but are including notes indicating they are not hiring additional staff this year "just to set expectations."
I planned on replying very politely and kindly, and taking up their offers to talk on the phone anyway. Would it be rude or strange to preface with a note indicating that I'd be willing to work unpaid if that was possible? Or should I simply take the phone conversation and not talk any more about jobs for now...?
You could also ask towards the end of the conversation "if they know of anyone else who would be willing to speak to you so you can learn more about the industry?" etc. Can't hurt, may know someone @ another bank.
Ok to ask about working unpaid? (Originally Posted: 03/31/2010)
So I recently reached out to an alum at a top tier prop shop (one listed in most people's top ten on the thread) and he forwarded my resume to HR. I recently got an email from her saying thanks for your interest but we've already hired our intern class and most are juniors anyway (I'm a freshman).
Is it a good idea to ask if I could work unpaid this summer? (I would accept in an instant) or better just to assume they don't take unpaid and keep in touch with my contacts.
I suppose you could suggest it, but it depends on how much you know about trading. If you have a strong finance background and think that you could answer a lot of the technicals that they would throw at you during an interview then pursue it. If you wanted the internship to really "learn" about all that stuff. I suggest you spend the Summer reading and learning every thing you can about trading/different products and contacting them for an internship next Summer. Firms are more likely to give an internship to a Sophomore than a Freshmen.
GO FOR IT. A. You have nothing to loose. B. Most youngins think their ish don't stink and are still waiting around for someone to pay them 2k a week as an SA.
Don't ever, ever, ever, ever, ever agree to work unpaid. But you can offer to work for $1. I think Michael Blumberg works for $1.
Thanks for the advice all, I ended up just shooting back a thank you along with a question instead of asking. I didn't want to risk harming the potential relationship.
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