So today Duff & Phelps came for a presentation at my campus. I had thought it was for IBD but it turns out it was for their valuation group. I was disappointed but figured I'd come here to get some more information on it as something to fall back on in case I can't make it into banking. How is their valuation group perceived? What are the exit ops like? What is the typical compensation for an analyst in a valuation group like at Duff & Phelps?
Thanks
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Is it such a bad thing to ask for insight and information to make an informed and educated decision as to whether or not this is something I'd like to pursue?
Come back when you have something to contribute to the discussion.
I worked at a valuatio firm before. You'll probably be doing a lot of FASB Post-merger 141 and 142 valuation (purchase price allocation and intangilble asset valuation), 409A stock options etc. So basically you're the "valuation consultant" for the Auditors (no IBD deal experience here). Not sure about Duff & Phelps but I got a lot of modeling experience from it and successfully transferred to IBD at a top MM bank (but took a long time, lots of rejections and some luck). So it's best to avoid it all together if you have better options. Hope this helps.
sounds about right...you will mostly be on the buyside consulting on any potential write-downs of intangibles post-transaction
What's the compensation like in valuation?
Duff & Phelps Business Valuation Group (Originally Posted: 11/12/2007)
I know this topic has been posted before, but I was hoping to get a little more insight about D&P's valuation group. I know the name is not nearly as strong as a BB or even a MM ibank, but I was curious about what types of exits are typical of this position (entry level analyst who gains a few years of exp).
Is it possible to break into an HF or PE shop at all? It seems to me that the experience is definitely relevant, but the name doesn't seem to be able to compete at all with a BB bank.
Also, would there be any chance at a top tier MBA program from D&P? I know that atypical experiences are okay for HBS and the like, but to me it seems that D&P valuation might be considered more of an ibanker reject job than something unique. I get the feeling that if you're going to play the finance angle into b-school, you better be from a "legit" firm (ie: GS/MS/etc). I hope this isnt true.
Any insight regarding a future w/ D&P would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
anyone?
I remember reading a valuation they did for a some Intellectual Property of a client of ours. I wasn't impressed. But it was done by some european office of theirs I believe
But that said its a fairly big name and I think generally they would be well perceived, and should you not get into IBD its a good fallback in my opinion.
Duff & Phelps Business Valuation (Originally Posted: 11/03/2007)
What's the opinion of this? Exit ops?
You'll acquire excellent modeling skills there, but I'm not exactly sure what the reputation is in terms of exit ops. When I was working there over the summer one of the senior associates jumped to a PE group. I'd be lying if I remembered the name though.
Any idea on what % the bonuses are?
From what I understand, bonus is based on hours billed. I'd assume that there is a % of base bonus with marginal increases based on those hours, but that's simply a guess.
That would make sense. D&P seems to be well respected in industry even though it doesn't have a big public name.
imamonkey....did you interview with them? if so, in whcih office? i pm'd u a couple days ago
Xenowang - how did you like the office culture?
I can only comment on the Philadelphia office, but given its small size, I was disappointed in the culture in general. Everybody there is very friendly and the analysts/associates are young, but I didn't get any true sense of camaraderie among the staff. Sure, they'll joke around sometimes and shoot the breeze, but I got the sense that people often came in, did the work, got out and returned to their normal lives. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't expecting people to be best friends or to be constantly going out together, but I did feel the general culture slightly lacking.
I think the two main reasons behind this are: a) Turnover there seems fairly commonplace.
b) Small size of the office (~40) means you're more likely to be stuck working with people you don't necessarily click well with.
Duff & Phelps Business Valuation.. Anyone knows about it? (Originally Posted: 04/14/2007)
Deos anyone know about the Business Valuation department at Duff & Phelps? I heard that they are one of the largest private valuation companies. What kind og work do they do? Is it all about modeling using DCF, public comps?
Thanks for any inputs.
starting base is 62.5. was told bonus was 12 but i'm not sure how accurate that is and no idea about sign on.
Yea their analysts atleast are pretty much cranking out models all day though i have a buddy over there who says the hours and not too bad and the senior bankers are pretty good to work for
The B-Val group of Duff and Phelps does just that - valuing businesses. However, these are purpose of the valuation is usually for accounting purposes, such as goodwill impairment tests or purchase price allocation after an M&A transaction has closed. Some projects may be to value stock options of private companies.
Thanks for the reply!
can you explain a little bit more what "goodwill impairment tests" or "purchase price allocation" are??
Purchase price allocation, is the process of assigning fair values to all acquired indentifiable assets in a target company. You can read up SFAS 141, 142, & 144 that covers the purchase accounting method, and impairment testing for long lived assets and various intangibles including goodwill.
After a purchase price has been determined by the investment bank, and the deal has closed, valuation experts come in and revalue the target's indvidual tangible and intangible assets.
This is called determining the fair value of purchased assets, and if the carrying amount on the balance sheet is much higher than the calculated fair value of the assets, the assets are written down to their correct fair values and the difference is charged to the income statement under "income from discountinued operations". So impairment write downs reduce your reported EPS, but also reduces your overall tax liability, which can be a good thing.
So the impairment test looks to determine which assets have lost their cash flow generating potential by comparing the intrinsic fair value to the carrying amount.
Determining the fair value of individual assets is the bulk of the work in a PPA, or an impairment review.
This background is VERY applicable in M&A investment banking, bankruptcy and restructuring, and also for private equity valuations.
Hopes this helps.
thadonmega- What class did you learn that from?
i think the above poster is wrong...if assets are written down the excess would go to goodwill
Yes, as part of the PPA, excess over book is allocated to goodwill.
But it is important to note that, there is a REAL difference between annual impairment testing of company assets for financial statement and tax reporting, and purchase price allocation after a deal closes, which is what you are referring to.
For PPA's after an acquisition, YES, the excess would go to goodwill just like any purchase method acquisition (unlike pooling). But all publicly traded company assets are subject to annual impairment testing if the circumstances dictate a possible impairment of assets.
For financial statement reporting purposes, all impairment write downs are charged to the income statement for the quarter, as part of a general impairment review (the cause, and valuation methodology is footnoted aswell in the 10q), but if it's a PPA, yes excess over book is allocated to goodwill, and the goodwill & other indefinite-life intangibles (that aren't amortizable) are in turn also subject to periodic impairment reviews in the future.
That's not that bad. I was expecting a lot lower of a number
i got an offer to a big 4 valuation shop that pays 60 base, 5 signing, 10 bonus. good back up to ibd since you do get strong modeling skills.. just no pitch experience or financing experience. they do some pre-deal valuations for hedge funds and audit clients who need "fair" opinions on possible targets. the main work is finding the goodwill or purchase price premium paid on a transaction post deal for SEC and Tax reporting purposes. You will value intangibles and securities using dcf, market approach, etc.
does anyone have any more info regarding comp, hours, culture etc at d&p?
bump. interested as well.
comp in valuation is generally 60k starting out with 5-15 bonus (combined signing and year end). You generally won't work weekends, hrs are 9 am to 7pm-12am. I used to work in valuation and had some 2am nights, some weekends. Really depends on deadlines. Since valuations are for financial reporting/tax purposes, you will be much busier Nov-April than the rest of the year.
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