evr/laz and financial modeling
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already ranked
3334 i didn't find anything in particular comparing these firms. do you mind providing a link or sharing your thoughts?
take evr/laz. JPM/BAML lev fin don't do as much modeling. MBB won't give you much HF exit opps, particularly with credit funds.
I have been told that BAML/JPM in particular do their own modeling and that fsg primarily sources deals, LevFin models and executes. Does anyone know how LAZ/EVR analysts placed relative to top LevFin groups (ie. baml/JPM) in pe and hf? I was also wondering whether the MBB brand would carry more weight than the others here if one chooses to pursue VC for instance.
I know that JPM FSG does execution - lev fin doesn't do that much modeling. Not sure about BAML.
7xEBITDA do you know how well the JPM LevFin guys place on the buyside?
Not sure. If you like LevFin, both JPM and BAML are great. MBB will give you great Business School exits (the best here) as well as pretty decent PE but not HF. LAZ/EVR are also very strong. If your offer is EVR, I would just take that straight up.
Good point on MBB. It seems like sometimes WSO hypes up LAZ/EVR exits. Do they actually place better at megafunds than highly coveted LevFin groups at BAML/JPM?
JPM/BAML are two of the top groups on the street for LevFin. You could certainly get interviews, and that's all that matters. Another mistake people make is that they assume people are getting the MF job because they worked at GS/MS/other. The first job helps land interviews. From there, it's pretty much level playing field. In fact, they should be renamed from exit ops to interview ops.
So work somewhere you like the people and work. You'll be able to grab interviews out of all of your options, especially if you network. From there its up to you, but based off your offers you shouldn't have too hard a time with nailing those interviews too.
getting MBB is sick dude. but looks like you're leaning towards finance so I'd probably go EVR or JPM
In either case, I'd take MBB in a heartbeat if it's life, grad school exits, and even PE/Startup gigs you're after. But it seems like finance is your thing, so if you want that hedgefund opportunity to still be open, I'd say go with Laz/EVR.
Rofl there's so much misinformation here, I'm not even gonna bother fixing all of them. Let me just tell you this - I can confirm that JPM's LevFin Department is segregated into multiple verticals (JPM's LevFin department is huge) and the vertical that is most coveted for "exit opps" is the Sponsors Vertical within LevFin, who work hand in hand with the FSG coverage group. If you end up in the other LevFin verticals then don't expect as much LBO modeling.
Likewise, getting into that Sponsors Vertical is insanely competitive
Speaking of misinformation...there is no such thing as a Sponsors vertical within LevFin at JPM.
LevFin is broken out by industry verticals. All industry verticals work with Sponsors, when there is one involved. Some industry verticals within LevFin do the modeling; others let FSG or coverage run.
Last point, JPM and BAML lev/fin place extremely well to the buyside. One guy from JPM went to KKR. Some went to other top HF's...while many others went to top credit shops. All analysts in these groups get interviews for most places and are on the radar from HH's.
Lazard and EVR are extremely strong too. Can't go wrong with either choice here.
MBB is more difficult to place into PE, as there is a bias towards bankers. McKinsey places far better into some PE shops, but you will still be competing with bankers.
Just remember - PE is an extremely coveted exit opportunity. Nothing is guaranteed from any of these choices. The hurdle maybe slightly higher if you're coming from a MBB for most PE opps.
johnny - sounds like you would do 1. BAML/JPM LevFin 2. laz/evr, and 3.MBB. Is that fair?
Well put Leverages & Beverages. Banana for you.
I have heard two opposing perspectives. 1. that LevFin/m&a place more into megafunds than consulting and 2. that since the consulting is more selective and has a smaller class of junior employees coupled with the fact fewer of your colleagues want to do pe it is actually easier than banking to make in into a megafund.
Which perspective is closer to reality?
depends on a lot of factors: strength of the lev fin/m&a practice, the consulting firm, and the MF itself. Bain Cap loves to hire consultants because they want to move away from leverage based financial engineering to operational value creation, for which MBB consultants are better positioned than bankers. KKR/tpg/carlyle still rely on more traditional leveraged buy out strategies, and they want bankers with good modeling experience. kids from EVR M&A or JP Lev Fin will get all the interviews they want with these firms...
i will say this though, thinking long term, MBB (especially if its McK) has terrific brand value and preftige. i can't imagine KKR turning down a McK guy who really wants an interview (and did a summer in banking or took a modeling course-basically can demonstrate that can pick up technical skills fast), though I can certainly imagine HBS turning down more than 80% of EVR kids who apply in the first round itself
I presume prestige matters when it comes time to headhunters and buyside recruiting. Seems like people generally agree that MBB is more prestigious than a Lazard or BAML/JPM LevFin.
I can easily imagine KKR turning down a McK guy. I know for sure there wasn't a single consultant in the last 2 KKR NYC associate classes and I doubt that statistic is an aberration. There are certain large PE shops that are receptive to consultants (Golden Gate, H&F, Berkshire, Advent etc.) but many more aren't. Your odds of doing PE from consulting are a lot worse than coming out of a strong bank or group.
Francisco how strong do you think Lazard/EVR are compared to GS in terms of placement?
Also, is there clearly a superior choice between an elite boutique like Lazard vs. top group at a non-GS BB?
although a HF will want nothing to do with a consultant mind you....from what i can tell bain and BX are most receptive to consultants. but just generally speaking in business outside finance, especially for grad school exits, MBB wipes the floor with BAML/JP its not even a close call.
So much misinformation in this thread.
Why would the OP even consider MBB if their goal is to exit to PE/HF/VC? I know lots of my friends that went to McKinsey can't land too many PE interviews because they've basically been travelling the country jerking eachother off for two years.
Do you want to be working on multi-billion dollar M&A deals that have actual transferrable skills or do you want to exercise "thought leadership", through the fun of travelling 5 days a week, sometimes in weeks in different cities doing retarded shit like interviewing CEO's and building (poorly formatted) charts showing how every industry is going to grow 10%.
But wait, it's all worth it when you get to pay $500k for an MBA just to hope to exit to a strategy role at Google where you'll be doing more proofreading on reports about how the world is going to change.
If you want to go buyside, you should be focused almost exclusively on laz/evr imo.
Any other thoughts on MBB --> megafund vs. BB/Boutique --> megafund?
Congrats on all these! Very impressive
MBB (exclusivity will go a long way in pe and business school)
BAML/JPM LevFin (baml in particular is the best and frequently feeds into mf)
Laz/EVR (boutiques are going declining in prestige and talent they attract)
Wait, you can't be serious? I thought the boutiques are still rising (well, have been for a while now)?
http://www.efinancialnews.com/story/2014-01-14/boutique-investment-banks-multi-billion-dollar-deal-wave?ea9c8a2de0ee111045601ab04d673622
Their prestige has never been at higher levels
Take a look at the linkedin profiles of junior employees at boutiques. They are generally not from HYPS and few actually end up at mfs. BB's and MBB in particular are mostly HYPS. Not saying undergrad school is be all and end all, but it does say something about desirability of the job.
That comment about EBs seems pretty counter-intuitive based on my experiences in school and how others from my school talk about EBs
ur retarded
Typically, I wouldn't respond to a thread like this, but given how much nonsense has been spewed above, I'll indulge.
Let's start broadly with your goals and then relate that to the firms from which you have offers. You mentioned:
Among the exits you listed, VC is the notable outlier. Most VC shops look to hire Associates with experience in entrepreneurship; accordingly, the number of exits from IB is extremely limited. Of course it's not impossible, but you'll likely need pre-existing connections, and it's best if you have successful (preferably VC or angel-backed) entrepreneurial experience. Presuming you don't have this already, I'll focus on the first three.
Receiving offers from MBB is no doubt a great accomplishment, but the exits you listed are all finance-centric. It's certainly not impossible to go from MBB into PE, but it's much less frequent than it is out of the IB groups you listed. Exits to HFs and credit funds would be quite rare. So as I discuss below, I don't mean to imply that working at MBB is inferior to working in IB - that's not true at all. But it should come as no surprise that working in consulting doesn't set you up as well for finance opportunities as does working in finance. That's almost tautological.
That said, here's how I'd think about your choices. I'll break things down into PE, Equity HF and debt/credit funds. Rankings are always superficial, so accept the usual caveats to such an exercise.
PE: Strictly in terms of MFs, these two groups stand a notch above JPM / BAML LevFin in that they consistently send multiple analysts to large-cap PE funds. Don't read me wrongly, the LevFin group at both JPM and BAML does provide exits into MFs, just not with the same regularity and in the same quantities. I'd put exits into upper-MM and MM PE shops in the same category as JPM and BAML. In short, if your goal is PE, LAZ / EVR would be my pick.
On the MBB side, McK in particular (though also Bain and BCG) sends BAs into PE shops every year. That said, it's a relatively small proportion of their entire class and tends to be heavily concentrated towards the "consultant-friendly" shops, as mentioned above. Fortunately, all of those funds are great places to work and regarded as top-notch shops. That said, these are consulting firms; many people at MBB would have had the option to work in finance and they turned it down. Unsurprisingly, the quantity of finance exits just isn't in the same ballpark.
In this category, I'd go: LAZ / EVR > JPM / BAML > MBB
Equity HF: It should go without explanation that a debt-focused capital markets team isn't exactly a feeder into equity HFs. Conversely, EVR & LAZ get plenty of looks from equity hedge funds and would get the nod in this category as well. Part of that obviously has to do with the pre-existing preferences of people who choose to join LevFin teams, but it's the reality either way.
On the MBB side, this exit just doesn't make much sense. Spending two years working in corporate strategy and operations improvement doesn't lend itself to analyzing public market equity investments. Exits will be few and far between. Again, not because MBB aren't great places to work, but because it's an entirely different industry.
In this category, again I'd go: LAZ / EVR > JPM / BAML >> MBB
Credit / Debt Funds: At either LAZ or EVR, credit or debt funds would likely be an option if you work on the RX team, but on the M&A side, both simply won't match up to the breadth of credit and debt funds that are available to LevFin analysts at JPM or BAML.
On the MBB side, I'd echo precisely what I said for equity funds above.
In this category, I'd go: JPM / BAML >> EVR / LAZ >> MBB
Culture: This will be always be somewhat dependent on the people with whom you work. Both of the boutiques have reputations on this board that should be easy enough to locate with the search function. JPM and BAML will have a bit less intel; but, honestly, this is all hearsay, so I'd go with your impression from meeting with actual employees at each firm.
On the MBB side, I've heard everything from "this was the most outstanding place to work" to "I couldn't stand a moment of it". It's highly dependent on the teams with which you work, the locations of your cases, the quality of your cases and your reaction to the travel involved. Hours will almost invariably be better on the weekends, and either a bit better or much worse during the week depending on whether you count being out-of-town as "work" or "leisure" time.
I won't bother to make rankings in this category; it's too much of a personal preference to objectify.
Any other thoughts. Appreciate all perspectives
I think that BAML LevFin should place better and have a friendlier culture than LAZ/EVR
This depends a lot on whether we're talking about LAZ or EVR.
We are talking about Lazard. If that makes your decision any more clear, please let me know.
And amongst all buyside exits, I see myself in private equity the most. Thanks again.
I'm always baffled that people can manage to get these offers but seem so incompetent at deciding between them.
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