IB/PE with ADHD?

Have pretty bad ADHD (not taking medication btw) and am doing an SA internship next summer at a BB. Current boutique internship is remote and I feel like I haven't done nearly enough work to justify my pay due to my utter inability to focus on the tasks at hand. Would be interested in hearing more from others with ADHD on how they're performing in IB/PE with the long work hours and high work output expectations. Is the pressure of the job enough to keep you going? Any strategies to cope besides medication?

 
Funniest

I just pop a shit ton of Adderall

I don't have ADHD though

 
Controversial

Don’t get on the meds they are absolutely not worth the side effects. They are chemically identical to cocaine and meth. Don’t burn your brain doing bitch work in your 20s.

EDIT because I think it deserves more attention: 

The 'conclusive and expert agreed upon' science is often manipulated and wrong in psychiatry. Every one of us has heard of chemical imbalance theory. Friends of mine take SSRI with that as the reason their own doctor prescribed the damn things. It was a theory that, from its conception, was grounded on shitty science and put forward simply because it sounded like a possible solution IN THEORY ALONE. I am not a conspiracy theorist. I believe in Occam's razor in regards to Pharma. Their incompetence and drive to repurpose failed drugs with working patents leads them to push drugs like SSRIs and stimulants on people that want a quick fix. This is not intentional it is just a principal-agent problem.

SSRI Paper from July 2022 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01661-0

News article about paper

https://www.sciencealert.com/huge-new-study-says-your-depression-isn-t-…

 
:

They are chemically identical to cocaine and meth

Adderall is a mix of amphetamine and dextroamphetamine salts; methamphetamine is methamphetamine; cocaine is cocaine.

Those are different chemicals you dumbfuck.

 

Agreed. IB is not even close worth sacrificing your health long term. I would just try to do the internship as best you can, talk with your doc about options, and worst case if you see IB hours + ADHD taking a large toll on your health then do something else.

 
Most Helpful

I have some ADHD, not taking any drugs and I am a vp at an elite boutique. 

It is not easy to break in, especially at the lower level when you need a lot of attention to detail and can't really show your other skills.

I think I made it because I was in a group where the workload was insane and the head value skills where I was strong (a lot of breadth and volume) but I could have struggled in a more traditional bulge bracket.

Once you become associate and have few projects going on, it becomes easier and your strength can be highlighted as your role evolve.

I am sure that it is very common although less than maybe in trading

In terms of advice I would say:

-develop a routine for checking (e.g. for each slide go top to bottom, bottom to top, left to right, right to left, diagonal)

-time yourself... And spend 2x more time reviewing things

-to do list are keys

-develop other skills than the hard skills (likeable, always available, pro-active, etc.). It sounds bland but you'll be able to be better at those

- do all your calcs on excel or with a calculator and avoid mental math

-you will do a lot of mistakes, try not to be too anxious but it is hard

-turn off phones

Good luck!

 

Lmao. Anyone who says they work at an “elite boutique” does not work at an EB (especially seniors)

 

As someone who has struggled with severe ADHD from a very young age, I second what the VP said. Would focus on the routine aspect and sports:

First, it’s so healthy to have a schedule like in school or fixed process, how to do things when and keep it to that order (no need to schedule every minute, but some rough plan for the whole week, if not month in general). Second, sports is so good. Try to find daily 30-60 min and do it. Even if it’s just home workout or run, it will help tremendous. Also turn off multi media during work and post work as much as you can, it will just lightning our brain like an already burning house dating an open oil pipeline. Meds can work, but I personally skipped them early on (after several side effects across the different ones) and went with the schedule, sport and behavioural therapy (adhd research for adults is getting more and more attention and options for this).

Best of luck for the future and take care, mate

 

Have it, no meds. Dude its very very doable. 

You will miss small things and make mistakes. Inevitable. EB VP has some really good practical tips on how to manage that as best you can.

This was their best tip - "-develop other skills than the hard skills (likeable, always available, pro-active, etc.). It sounds bland but you'll be able to be better at those". It's because you don't want the reputation of someone who doesn't deliver perfect work. Better said, you don't "only" want that reputation. "They make small mistakes but they're super hardworking/I like them" will work.

If it helps, it actually does get easier as you move up. It honestly feels like a strength now.

Won't comment on meds, works for some, doesn't for others. 

 

I wrote my own experiences with (probably) ADD here: 

https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/investment-banking/unattentiveness-at-work-is-getting-me-into-trouble-3-months-in

Although, my gf recently said I might be a high-functioning autist, so maybe it's something else entirely.

Also, if you're half intelligent and willing to stick to a system, you can be a perfectly average IB monkey. Excellence is probably not in the cards for you without medication (go for methylphenidates, not amphetamines), but luckily being average in IB is a fantastic middle way as a career.

 

Lots of interesting perspectives on here. I'll chime in with my own. For context, I have ADD like yourself and also did not take meds, and found that my work was riddled with a shitload of mistakes during my IBD internship. Everyone on here is telling you not to take meds because meds=bad health apparently, and while I didnt take the meds because I didnt like who they made me become, I think it is important to better understand the position you're in. 

I would use this current summer as a test. Are you getting distracted but eventually getting your work done, and finding it to be quality? Are you missing deadlines, turning in work that doesnt meet expectations, etc.? If you feel you are the former, then you'll probably be fine. Once next summer kicks in, you'll probably be much busier and thus forced to manage your time better. It gets tricky if you think your work quality is poor, which is where I found myself. I am not wise enough to tell you what to do here, but I personally opted to not take the meds and over time was able to force myself into improving the quality of my work. It took a long time, I made some dumb errors along the way, but Im still here, doing my best as a mid bucket employee. I just want to call out that it is sometimes REALLY hard to focus for 10-14 hours a day when you have bad ADD, and coffee can sometimes make it worse. 

Most importantly, good for you for thinking about this now and trying to establish a game plan next summer. Best of luck!

 

I'm hopping onto this thread late but this post is so spot on. I REALLY struggle in finance due to ADHD. In school I got extra time on tests so my grades were top notch. But in the business world there's little empathy for failing to catch errors (or committing errors) on PPTs and Excels. I also can't concentrate if there's talking around me or too much sound. I used to use headphones but my manager criticized me for listening to music while at work - all the while not realizing that if I did not use the music my work product would degrade due to distraction by external conversations. I also spent time on a trading desk and it was murder due to far too many sound-based distractions. 

 

There’s some dude in here shitting all over taking meds for ADHD (and for some reason throwing out studies about SSRIs when ADHD meds aren’t SSRIs???) and I’m here to tell you that it’s fine to take them. There’s plenty of research that show it is generally safe to take if it’s administered appropriately. I take one Vyvanse most weekdays before 11:00am and it helps me stay focused and manage my workload very well throughout the day and I sleep like a baby every night. It wears off around 9:00pm each night and it’s generally not an issue to continue working because by that time most of my competing priorities have slowed for the day. I also recognize that it’s a case by case basis and someone with substance abuse issues probably shouldn’t take them because that’s when it can become dangerous, the same deal if you experience bad side effects like sleep and appetite loss. However, not everyone has abuse issues or experiences bad side effects so listen to your body and stay in moderation and it can be quite beneficial. 

 

Same here, moderate ADHD and refuse to take prescriptions.

It is very difficult, there’s no 2 ways about it. Attention to detail in this job (and whole life) has been my primary criticism.

Tasks will often take me 20-25% longer because I have to constantly triple check everything. That being said it is possible and I do feel myself being trained and getting better. Finding a way to track things on paper/word doc is key.

 

Mild ADHD (I think it might actually be higher but I thought my assessment was quite interesting and managed to focus enough), don't take meds because I don't like the feeling.

  1. You need systems (form a habit to create calendar reminders. although on weekends if I have something interesting I will literally not check my phone for days)
  2. You need to figure out ways to pretend that you're paying attention (I will fall asleep even standing up if I have to listen to a boring person, so I deliberately multi task if I'm not the one leading a call. Looks efficient and I am allowed the time to replay my recording for any points I missed. I also got better at covering up moments of micro sleep)
  3. Realise that our jobs are inherently quite boring and often quite meaningless, and maybe just set your goal to be getting through that hour / call / day.
  4. As EB VP said, develop a reputation for something else, that is genuine and you can do naturally
  5. Alot of the checking / spotting errors comes from enough repetition that you're trained to see small differences + enough experience to intuitively know when some calculation / conclusion is off. It's painful and spotting formatting errors is not a useful life skill, but it does get better eventually
  6. It's alot better once you can drive your own projects. You need to be aware of your weaknesses though, and put in place structures and ways to still get the job done, but work is alot more interesting when you get to make decisions. 
 

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