If You Lose Your Spot to a Diversity Candidate You Probably Suck Anyway
Imagine this: you are born in a private hospital to two wealthy parents. You go to a private school, live in a gated community and go to a namebrand college without having to work a side-job to afford your rent and textbooks. You have all the time in the world to do nothing but study and network, as has been the case since high school because your parents sheltered you from the harsh realities others have to deal with. Finally you get your day in the sun - you waltz right into three separate on-campus recruiting interviews for the top investment banks. You bomb all three. Hundreds of students from your undergrad college get banking offers, but you don't. Even the fucking kid from the projects who speaks English as a third language got a role over you. This is because you are a moron, not because you are disadvantaged. In fact, you were born on third base and got lapped by the "diversity hire". This should make you think of your own shortcommings, not that of the black dude you got cucked by.
Thank you for listening to my Ted Talk and kiss my ass white men!
Now imagine a dIvErSiTy kid with the same background and same suckiness getting that offer...
I don’t think many people have issues with diversity programs, in fact, I think most people generally support them/recognize why they exist. The issue resides in the fact that you have minorities who grew up very privileged taking advantage of the system.
I think the solution to this is by shifting it towards an income-based program - where low income minorities (or even low income white people) are the people who are given these chances and opportunities.
I get that, my line of thinking is moreso that if you're a great candidate you're going to get a job, and only people that were already on the fence might potentially get dinged because diversity forms the tye-breaker. At that point you just gotta take the L and accept you weren't the best man.
And I do agree it's annoying as fuck when some Uncle Tom ass coon from Connecticut whose 1/4 black applies to the application portal reserved specifically for diverse candidates. Rich black dudes shouldn't do that shit but rich black dudes are also the only thing worse than rich white dudes. It's like someone took all the worst aspects of white and black people and combined them.
Simply not true. Great candidates who are white males that grew up in poverty but worked to network, get good grades, and score higher on tests get passed up all of the time. Happened to me, much more than I'm remotely comfortable with. You are naïve to think this only happens to mediocre white male candidates, but keep believing the trash propaganda fed to you.
Guess I don't expect much from someone with 2 years experience out of college, but hopefully posting idiocy like this will make you see how naïve you truly are.
This just isn’t a fair statement though when diversity hiring happens BEFORE anything else…
exactly. that's where these programs should be headed imo
I agree. However, for a person from an underrepresented AND low-income community, it will be much easier to even gain the confidence to apply for the job. If they see that there are more people that look like them there, the process will be much more comfortable. They will have better luck with networking and will not feel as unaccepted. Even if there are privileged kids taking advantage of that, it should not be that big of a deal in the great scheme of things.
.
it's 3 o'clock on a summer wednesday why are you thinking about this rn
its Thursday bruh
i'm not even gonna edit it im just gonna leave it there
Every day is wednesday in banking. the week never truly ends
Eh, piss off some white people because I've had a bad day. After I finish shitposting I'm going to throw a coffee at our white intern and tell him "You not the massa' no more!"
Hey, at least you aren't shooting people from the other side of town. That's a start, right?
Investment bankers don’t experience summer (or any of the seasons for that matter).
OP post hand pic to prove race
Almost all diversity kids who got into banking at my school were at least upper middle class
Said by an intern who doesn't actually know a single "diversity kid" because he's in a racist frat and doesn't have black friends.
U mad bro?
If you’re curious, I know 5 kids who got BB diversity programs. I know for a fact 3 of them are upper middle class at least.
This post does have some truth to it, but it misses the point. Let's do some math to really see what's going on here.
Let's say 10,000 kids apply to IB and for the sake of example, let's say only 10% or 1,000 kids get an offer as it is very competitive.
Now, let's say that 100 offers are diversity offers outside of the 10%.
So, who loses here? It is not the dumb kid ranked 8,243. It is kids ranked 900 to 1,000 aka those in the top 9% to 10%. Now true, are these kids as smart as the top candidates in the top 3%? No, they are not, but they certainly don't suck like candidate ranked 8,243.
However, I would point something else out. If you are that smart and ranking in the top 9% or 10% of candidates, guess what. Apply next year and I bet that you'll find a spot. Or you'll probably find another role doing something else where your talents are in high demand. Or another scenario is that you got bumped from JPM but you're still a very quality candidate at a MM for example.
Point is that the impacts are on the margin but people have a tough time processing marginal costs in their mind.
But you can't really apply again next year unless you delay graduation. You get 1 shot at IB as an undergrad, and a second if you get your MBA. People who didn't get a banking SA, but managed to get an FT offer from a bank are a very very small minority.
If you are in the top 9% to 10% of candidates and are willing to do the legwork, you'll get in. Maybe it won't be at GS or JPM but what about a MM and LMM as a start? Totally doable. Anyway that's my experience. Did not get in through on-campus recruiting.
Here's a thought. Maybe, if you can't get into this business without the help of on campus recruiting, then you suck and don't deserve to be in it.
Blatantly racist post showcasing your obvious hatred for white people while I’m sure you’re crying racism on the other side. You’re the problem bub..not Donald Trump, not white people, not systemic racism, YOU (and everyone that liked it, and WSO for keeping it up there with that last line).
This is the definition of white fragility. I get called the N-word every time I play x-box. You'll be aight bubba.
This is the definition of “whataboutism”. Sorry the 10 year olds on Xbox hurt your feelings bub.
Edit: the concept of “white fragility” is also racist. You think I’m mad but really I find these concepts funny. Can’t take you (or the world really) seriously.
Lol are you dumb? "WAH WAH A 14 YEAR OLD CALLED ME A NO NO WORD ON XBOX LIVE. GIVE ME RECRUITING PRIVLEGES!"
This is just an incompetent diversity hire who's too dense to accept that he wouldn't have gotten past the first round if he was any ethnicity except black or hispanic. Deep down, he knows he's an inferior candidate who only got the offer because of his skin color and made this post to rationalize to himself that he really deserves all the extra benefits given to him. Stop crying bro and enjoy your diversity offer - it's a huge win!
Imagine this: you are born in a private hospital to two wealthy parents. You go to a private school, live in a gated community and go to a namebrand college without having to work a side-job to afford your rent and textbooks. You have all the time in the world to do nothing but study and network, as has been the case since high school because your parents sheltered you from the harsh realities others have to deal with. Finally you get your day in the sun - you waltz right into three separate on-campus recruiting interviews for the top investment banks. You bomb all three. You get all three offers, even though you don’t know what an investment bank is, because you’re a rich, attractive, white woman. Your life is already on easy mode, AND you get your own separate, accelerated, easier recruitment process. You’ll leave after two years to get married to a PE partner and take 50% of his carry a decade down the road when you divorce. Damn it feels good to have a pussy.
It must friggin' kill you that there's possibly one demographic in this world more privileged than you. What a torturous existence.
Sir my parents make $50k combined and I got a full ride and clawed my way into a top BB as a nontarget white male
Almost everyone in America is substantially better off than most people in other parts of the world. By your logic, no one in America should complain about inequality because only a select few on a global and historical scale have it better than them.
When does it become okay to complain? When two groups are ahead of you? Three? Ten?
Being luckier than most other people doesn’t mean you don’t get to point out when a system is flawed.
Being a women would suck though. No physical strength, not a natural leader of men so you have to resort to be a super bitch when placed in charge of them, cnat play football, suck at sports, have to rely on men for protection, cant walk home alone at night in sketchy nyc neighborhoods. No test flowing though your body.
Feel good being a man srs
Dude get out of your cubicle (now bedroom) and go to a gym. You’ll see chicks who can play with the boys when it comes to squats and deadlifts and who honestly could beat you up in a fight given the shape you’re in due to IB. Anecdotal but in one of the gyms I used to go to in the past there was this girl who was 6’5” and did weights. Her arms and legs were muscular. I def would not want to get into a fight with a chick like that...
I think being a woman, especially if you’re attractive, is more advantageous in the 21st century west but a lot of the advantages you get are upfront and diminish over time and men take things over by the time people are in their 30s. But also, who gives a shit, it’s outside of your control, other people’s path in life is not your own and bitching about inequality either way is not productive
Wow how do I become one of these women
go trans
Yet again limousine liberals fail to understand that plenty of white people exist outside of their Greenwich bubble.
1. Assume all normal applicants are rich sheltered kids with the world handed to them by their parents
2. Assume all diversity kids are kids from the projects
This is your brain on diversity recruiting. Hope you enjoy that diversity offer bro!
How about companies actually just choose whoever is most qualified and fits the role the best. I really do not understand why it is so difficult for people to simply choose who is the best. It's ridiculous that skin color, religion, or sex have anything to do with the hiring process. People should not even have to fill out ethnicity or sex on an application. If the recruiters like their resume and want to give them an interview so be it. Jesus fucking christ, why is everything about race and religion these days? Can't we have one goddamn day where we don't hear racially charged statements. No safe places.
Probably the last time I'll read a wso post on social criticism (what did I expect?). I'm African and one of the reasons Africans don't get along with African-Americans is cuz we think you guys are babies, you live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world but you can't stop complaining about everything "they looked at me funny" "they won't let me in their social circle" "they assume I'm aggressive and that angers me and consequently makes me aggressive" blah blah blah. I'm not completely insensitive, I understand slavery happened and it was shit but you should know, there will never be a price that will make the errors of slavery right, never. White culture and black culture are different so ofc there's going to be tribalism, there's tribalism in my home country where everyone is black ( people of certain tribes don't get jobs, get harassed by the police more, etc.) my point is, if you understand why there will never be a price to make the past right, then you have to move on from it otherwise you have the wrong chip on your shoulder, you're worried about your race instead of worrying about your bank account, do you think you can save the world or change society by pointing out everything that's wrong with race relations? you can't, it just becomes less public but the social tension remains; just remember that there was as good a reason for the world to protest one day before the death of George Floyd, and it's not because the system is fucked up and unjust which it is, but because people are selfish and fucked up, and will continue to be this way till the end of time.
Based. Anecdotally the difference in work ethic between African Americans and Africans is pretty extreme
yah , right
I look at posts like these and think, "Man, this guy really feels inferior."
This x100. Imagine being so fragile you have to post something like this on an online forum then complain about “white fragility” when people push back. People like this will never reach the top - they have excuses for everything. Yawn
Pretty soft response, kiss my ass cracker lmao I'm already home for the day and some douchebag like you is finishing up my deal files for me because he's white and our boss is allowed to call him lazy
For your consideration:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-03/morgan-stanley-s-anj…
You're supposing every non-diversity (ie white man) are from rich families. That's a pretty ridiculous hypotheses
I get that OPs entire objective is to troll people into saying racist shit but it really is amazing how quickly people who are "not racist" go full-racist when they perceive the slightest threat (ie, job competition) from a person of color. Some of yall are incredibly ignorant and quite frankly would benefit tremendously from having a more diverse group of colleagues.
Do you guys not understand that diversity initiatives were created on the basis of multiple studies that found that people with identical resumes but "black" names were massively less likely to get interview requests? And additional studies have shown that when interviewers speak with black candidates they tend to sit further away, speak more impersonally and wrap up interviews quicker? Do you know how many fratty little REPE shops mentioned the "airport test" as a hiring criteria? Do you understand that having a "black" sounding accent, even if you speak proper English, is definitively "unprofessional" in the eyes of most white businessmen? Have you ever considered how many interview dinners or deal-close dinners you have been to where the rich white-boy club all banters about how this or that private school is doing or what part of the Hamptons they were in last weekend? Rich white people and broke black people live in different worlds and I don't think people understand how shitty it is to have to basically be a fucking Uncle Tom to be accepted by the white business-class. Not to mention how you can get away with murder as a white dude and everyone gives you the benefit of the doubt. Drug abuse only became a "mental health issue" when white people in the suburbs started ODing on opioids. Talking about sports is copacetic as long as it's not two brothers hooting about the Knicks game last night - and you better not clap your hands while you laugh during the conversation.
The reality is being black on wall street sucks in a lot of ways that someone from a traditional white, middle-class background isn't even cognizant of and if we can get a few smart, hard-working brothers on the team to give each other moral support and help others be more comfortable with people who are culturally different then them would that really be that fucking sucky for yall?
apparently, yes
These are all valid points, but as a previous comment said people who are technically classified as "diverse" but grew up in privileged backgrounds shouldn't have a fast track path to a job over someone who actually grew up with hardships. At least 80% of the kids at my school who get offers through diversity are either rich white girls or half-xyz race whose parents are millionaires and grew up in Greenwich or some rich international school. When this continues to happen these programs which are meant to do good just become performative.
The macros outweigh the micros. I think the higher level goal is to create a diverse group of professionals among the assoiate/VP ranks in high-power industries (banking) who understand the black experience will call shit out when the white dudes in the room all go "Hell yeah, he seemed like a good guy. He used to play my brother in Lacrosse at Tuffts, we should hire him!" Maybe if there's more representation in that room the candidate who is just as good will actually have a chance because "fit" factors, that are traditionally definded by rooms of middle-class to rich white dudes. I mean, imagine being a woman in an interview, I think Sports are like the gold-standard ice-breaker at work dinners and you're just permanently on the outside of that. I know people will never understand it, but believe me, with the amount of obstacles just getting our foot in the door, it's really not like we're blessed exactly in the grand sceme of things.
While I appreciate you bringing these points up, they are largely invalid. I'll respond to each one with my views and look forward to hearing your thoughts.
1. You mentioned that black names on identical resumes were massively less likely to get interview requests. This is true. However, this is also true across all ethnic names, not just black ones. Few articles if you are interested: https://www.theladders.com/career-advice/study-ethnic-sounding-name-emp…;
So in this instance, diversity recruiting should apply to all non-white applicants, not just the black and hispanic ones? However, in practice, diversity recruiting (and all other forms of affirmative action) provide an undue benefit to black and hispanic applicants at the expense of other POC and whites.
2. You mention how many "fratty little REPE shops" have the airport test as a hiring criteria. Yes, cultural fit is important for all firms. Are you implying that only blacks and hispanic people are discriminated against by these firms? Are non black/hispanic-POC able to pass this airport test?
3. You claim "black sounding accent" is definitively unprofessional in the eyes of white businessmen. This is probably true but it goes the same way for all other "ethnic" accents (Thai, Chinese etc)
4. Rich white people and broke black people live in different worlds? Let's not mix income into this argument. A rich black/asian/indian person lives in a different world than a poor white/black/asian person.
5. Whites get away with more crimes compared to blacks? Lets assume that to be true. If it were true, would it not make more sense to pursue judicial reform rather than creating affirmative action programs? If the judicial system (or any system) has a flaw, the appropriate course of action is to fix the system itself rather than try to engineer outcomes after the fact.
6. Yes, "letting a few hard working brothers on the team to give each other moral support" IF they did not earn it is antithesis to the meritocratic and fair society that most people would agree that we are trying to build. If someone wants to get on the "team", the path is clear. Go get an education, get good grades, get into an interview process like everyone else and obtain the offer through merit, not through skin color.
A lot of people try to mix the diversity programs argument with income. If they really cared about that, then why wouldn't they just support creating these diversity programs based on income rather than skin color? The truth is, the vast majority of diversity program seats end up going to wealthy white women and rich black/hispanic folk. The whole affirmative action is just a massive scam designed to create a fake sense of progress. None of these companies really give a shit about blacks, hispanics or any other POC. It's all just a publicity stunt
A) Diversity recruitment does aim at women, blacks, hispanics, native-americans, etc. not just blacks. So points 1 - 3 are meaningless. That's the whole point of "white privilege", white norms are seen as the normal.
B) Point 4 is valid, but practically speaking the most defunded, void and unhealthy neighborhoods aren't white neighborhoods. But yeah, sure, a couple of trailer park guys in Michigan are the token white people in poverty. it's not all about money though a lot is about breaking the norm that white males who speak a certain way are the ideal banker. C) Point 5, yes it would make sense to reform the justice system, as we've already begun to do. Just because we also need to do that doesn't mean we can't also help diversity hiring lol.
D) the black guys from Harvord/Stanford/UVA/Etc. Who get into BBs are still super sharp and qualifies. There aren't throwing off your precious meritocracy.
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