Investment Banks as Watch Brands

GS = Rolex


JP = Patek

three of the biggest in the market and everyone knows them even if they have no interest in the industry

CVP = Richard Mille

Lazard = FP Journe

Moelis / PWP = girard perregaux

PJT / Evercore = Blancpain

All competing with the top three but not known my the average Joe

Rothschild = Vacheron Constantin - Huge name in Europe, but don't get nearly as much love in the States

BofA / Citi = Panerai - Solidly placed where they are

Barclays / UBS = Omega - Playing catch-up to the top few, but still very solid in their own right. Use lower prices as incentives 

Deutsche = Hublot - Known and even admired by the common man, but memes to anyone in the industry 

Jefferies = Seiko - Consistently pushing above their weight

Mizuho = Grand Seiko - Japanese firm grabbing attention

 BNP / SocGen = Cartier - Not nessesarily primarily focused on this business activity (jewellery and commercial banking), French representation in a foreign industry

HL = Breitling - Extremely strong in one niche(RX/ Aviation), trying to build other areas

RBC / HSBC/Nomura = Bvlgari - Foreign entrants in an industry largely dominated by a single country, all also have other areas of focus

Santander = Tudor - Not relevant 10 years ago, starting to make significant moves in the market but still something to prove 

MUFG / SMBC = Swatch - Kind of meh themselves but hold stakes in some of the most prestigious in the market

FT Partners / Qatalyst = Apple Watch

CS = Cortébert - Once pretty special, now out of business

Absolutely not - Lange is definitely more of an EB-level watch. We're talking small volume, high quality and expensive. If we were to introduce Lange, I'd argue that it'd be at the Moelis/PWP level.

I reckon Grand Seiko or something of that nature would be more appropriate for the BofA/Citi dynamic - it's a strong-ish premium offering as a complement to a more mainstream product (i.e. a strong IB division as a complement to retail/Commercial banking). Although, Grand Seiko's range goes from Omega/Rolex competitor pieces to MB&F competitor pieces so this may not be the best direct comparison. 

Baird = G-Shock

Great for those in the industrials field. Not sexy but solid. Comes with full capabilities of a fancier watch without the presumptions.   

Mizuho = Galaxy Watch

Not as sexy as the American Big Tech brands, but desperately trying to pickup share in the American markets by acquiring additional features / design methods from Apple/Amazon/Google products. Supporters have been saying for years "Geez, the ______ on the new Galaxy watch is a game changer, I think it might finally take on Apple this year!" But somehow regardless of the new initiatives, the brand stays second fiddle to American Big Tech products.  

For the sake of a discussion;

Blancpain is the oldest surviving Swiss brand and originated the Fifty Fathoms which was an inspiration for the Rolex Submariner.

Cartier is in the top five in terms of market share and sales growth while also being a strong legacy name.

Swatch saved the Swiss watch industry and became one of the largest conglomerates.

Casio, Seiko, and Citizen aren't even on the list...

wouldnt GS be patek? it's the undisputed number 1. also disagree with CVP being RM but I see where you're coming from. 

So pretty low rated but with a hella strong founder and specific target market?

I'd say GS would be PP, MS should be AP and JPM should be VC, based on the date of founding. Like GS/MS/JP, AP/VC/PP are considered the "holy trinity" or "big 3" of their respective industry. Rolex are fantastic watchmakers, but they just can't compete with AP/VC/PP on the basis of sophistication - Rolex tend to focus on perfecting simple watches and making them fantastic, whilst AP/VC/PP do that and much more. Lazard should be Breguet, not FPJ - old, half french and high end. I'd put Rothschild here too if not for their weakness outside of europe - not sure what I'd name as a counterpart to Rothschild though, possibly Jaeger Lecoultre, in that they're fairly old guard and underappreciated outside of Europe. 

Also I reckon for the Techy banks (Qatalyst and to a lesser extent FTP) why not Urwerk given the astronomical salaries?

Yeah I was thinking the Big 3 of each side worked too, but if you asked someone on the street to name an investment bank it would almost certainly be MS GS JPM and a watch would be Rolex AP PP - so just thought that makes sense. VC does compete with them of course, and is probably more 'prestigious' than a Rolex  but if you're not into watches you've almost certainly never heard of them

I understand your reasoning - I more took the view that you were talking about them in terms of equal prestige rather than public perception - I think the whole direct holy trinity comparison works, but I respect your take on it - there's just something that feels off about GS being equated with Rolex to me. I mean an An1 can afford a sub (or at least, that used to be the case before prices when stratospheric), which kind of diminishes the relative perception of prestige, if you get what I mean?

Point taken re Vacheron's name recognition though - outside of watch circles they're somewhat unknown (although this is less arguably less appliable to Europe) and I'd attribute this to the fact that they don't really an icon or hero watch. I mean, PP have the Nautilus, AP have the Royal Oak, what do VC have, the Overseas? As far as I'm aware you can still walk into an AD and get an overseas, if not instantly then at least within 6 months, compared to the absurd waiting lists for the Nautilus and the RO. The Patrimony is pretty much the same thing as the Calatrava, but (I think) with a higher retail price. 

I asked ChatGPT this question:

JPM -- Rolex

GS -- Patek

MS -- AP

Evercore -- Breguet

Lazard -- Vacheron Constantin

CVP -- A. Lange & Sohne

Really like JLC, but can't think of a suitable bank/firm...

It's tagline is known as "the watchmakers' watchmaker".

Just spitballing, but is it the equivalent of a feeder firm? BIWS is more like a training school than a firm too. Maybe a MM that places well into BB/EBs...? HL is taken too.

BNP and HSBC already on there, KeyBank probably any micro brand you can take your pick really. Macquarie and BMO may need some thinking but I’d reckon Macquarie could be Grand Seiko given that they’re unlikely competitors from the other side of the world 

Bit of a hot take (maybe) but I’d even say that Macquarie would be something like a Rolex Milgauss or an Omega Speedmaster or something. It’s got a quality base-level operation but not quite good enough to compete with the big boys worldwide, except in one niche area where they were first to market and still the best. In the case of the milgauss that’s watches for CERN, with the speedmaster that’s going to the moon, with Macquarie that’s infra.

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