Is it really THAT bad with Deutsche Bank & UBS?
According to WSO's current poll, 59% of those that voted said that they would LEAST want to work for one of those banks. Is it really that bad? Should I not even bother trying to intern with them at all next summer?
I understand there are general issues (mentioned in quotes below), but will things turn around eventually?
From @idaho" re UBS hate:
My understanding is that they're downsizing their IB division like crazy and shifting to other financial services (e.g. their wealth management group). Also, I guess on here, everyone cares about prestige, and UBS is usually the bottom of the bulge bracket.
From @mrsteez" re DB:
DB is and has been in trouble for some time now (failed stress test, shitty employee satisfaction polls + layoffs, lawsuits...) - they're all over the news for all the wrong reasons.
Anything else I should know? Thanks guys
See the poll: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/polls/which-bb-ban…
I don't think you should avoid those banks, but I would imagine that they have lower return offer rates/are laying people off more frequently than the other bulge brackets and elite boutiques. If that's the case, I would say definitely apply, but if you have a better offer, take it. In addition, if you are at one of those banks and they have some massive series of layoffs (that is known through the finance world) and you get laid off, I'd think that places you'd interview at would be fairly understanding.
Just my two cents
Regarding UBS: I have the same perception, many people were made redundant in the IB divisions. Very likely that this trend will continue...
Re DB: it is true that they have layoffs, however mostly in markets where they are withdrawing operations + downsizing in Germany (commercial banking). For IBD, this years analyst class is one of the biggest ever. This applies only to Europe: still "good" in the league tables, some teams had major hits (e.g. chemicals), but other teams are still competing with the american counterparts. Regarding the stress test: the american subsidiary had a Core Capital ratio of 30%, this is not why they failed. they failed due to qualitative reasons, because the it at db is so shit that they couldnt produce the asked information.
i may be a bit biased but i dont feel that db is going down the shitter!
OH NO MY FRAGILE EGO AND ITS PREFTIGE!!
(I am not at either of these banks, so its safe to say they both totally suck ass.)
Sure, and I bet competition to get into Bear was just as fierce going into '08
And Drexel Burnham in '89.
That Drexel diaspora though... wish I'd had the opportunity to work back in the day at Drexel. The Predators' Ball by Connie Bruck - strong recommendation
Both these banks are still BBs-- not considering them at all would be a little extreme. They're both in different places right now.
UBS has already finished the majority of its cuts and at this point is comfortable with the size of its investment bank (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-12/ubs-s-orcel-signals-h…). While it definitely is a smaller BB, the focus of management is on return on equity and not league tables. Can also add that morale is pretty high at the bank right now, and that offer rate for the summer was in line with past years (60-75%).
DB is having some issues in the press and is about to start reducing its presence, which is why there is some risk in going there. Keep in mind that it is a major financial institution that is not going anywhere, but expect a few years of lower comp/layoffs. Can't speak too much to the internal situation but that's my two cents.
Also its important to keep in mind that UBS/DB (along with CS/MS/GS) are all focused on cutting S&T jobs not advisory. Overall the BBs are hiring less not more, so ignoring 2 of the 9 is probably not in your best interests.
This is really where WSO fails. If you knew nothing about IB and just read WSO, you'd be under the impression that unless you get into HWS and then work at GS/MS/JPM you're f#cked. This is not the case. DB and UBS are still BBs and place well into buy-side shops.
You mean there's people on here that didn't go to HWS?
I didn't know the common folk knew how to create an account
For DB: Temporary pain, still a BB I'd love an opportunity to work for For UBS: Place has been a piece of shit since their top deal makers left in the mid 00's, and the financial crisis. Great place to do PWM, and maybe ER (as an extension of it's PWM strength). Banking there (from personal experience) is a joke.
What personal experience do you have? The IBD runs very lean now, and analysts get a lot of deal experience. Summer analyst return offer rates in 2015 were ~85%, and this year ~70%, which is a lot better than some of the other BBs.