MS Comp Day
Hearing terrible numbers this year. Exodus coming?
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Swap places with the Citi guys who are also about to get the pipe today
Not trying to hijack the thread but curious about two things: is this for Aso+? And when are the numbers expected to be communicated? Thanks!
MS earnings aren’t until Jan 17, so they wouldn’t give numbers before that
Comp day was today globally
Citi comp day was very good. Same as last year.
For everyone that made fun of Citi on this forum the past couple years, we still paid top of street BB wise.
What do you mean same as last year, are you saying bonuses flat YoY?
What was your comp?
Everyone in my broader group was very disappointed with their bonuses. Not sure where you heard ‘good bonuses’ from this year
Any numbers?
An0 stub much lower than last years analyst class, at least in my group
Don't Analysts get their bonus in the summer?
Heard S&T got fuckin WRECKED, buncha guys with zeroes is the whisper
MS numbers are an absolute trainwreck.
MS will lose lots of their staff to this and rightly so.
The mood music is dreadful.
Can you share a range?
;
What were you expecting, deal flow down by 50 percent. No one is leaving
I don’t get the “deal flow is down” argument. Junior bankers don’t get comp’d based on deal flow like senior bankers do. Hence why Junior banker comp is supposed to be less variable YoY. If business is down, this should be a MD/D problem. Am I missing something?
That's weird. For some reason, I didn't hear anyone making the same argument last year or the year before when dealflow was up. I wonder why that is?
Except MS didn’t get outsized comp in 2021 like GS/JPM did.
Isn't MS the leanest headcount of the BBs (100 An1)? How do they comp so low when their annual fees per head are boutique tier?
Yup, I don’t know how.
They pay Seniors very well to keep top performers. That's where the majority goes.
Rest is pocketed by the bank.
MS has always been a low payer vs the other US bulge brackets.
Once you IPO, the purpose of your business is to make your shareholders rich, not your employees. If Morgan Stanley has a record year T Rowe Price, Vanguard, etc. want a record dividend. They aren't going to just let you crank OpEx up by paying your employees above market, at the expense of Operating CF that could be paying dividends or reinvesting in revenue opportunities.
That's why EBs are so money. I mean real EBs; Ducera, Qatalyst, FT Partners all pay the absolute Christ out of their employees in good years. And nobody can tell them not to: the employees own the business.
Lazard, Moelis & Evercore aren't even really "boutiques" to me anymore. At this point they're all public companies worth a few billion that exist as a cash generation machine to pay dividends to shareholders. They're still able to pay employees slightly above market, but can no longer give the type of windfalls that guys at Qatalyst/Ducera can get during a blockbuster year.
FT Partners officially an EB
What's bad? 50% of base???
What was the stub bonus for ASo?
I heard $50k
Is that abnormal for a stub?
Wide range across the board, 150k for me
Year?
Associate 3
Associate 4:
base 225, went to 275 for vp.
bonus 185
That seems pretty decent honestly considering the comments above. Is this in line with your expectations?
Was expecting lower.
Any other numbers?
Can confirm that numbers are not uniformly bad. My number was very strong
Oh yeah?
105k AS0 / stubbed like 45k
need more datapoints, please add.
Associate 3, 50% base
Middle bucket at 50%. Mass exodus coming of job market doesn’t come crashing
And for M&A or LevFin? Horrible. You guys had decent revenue at the quarter mark, mgmt incompetence a bit of a joke. Sorry they screwed you like this
Got a zero and gave them 2 weeks in the same meeting
Brutal
Did they know you were leaving already? Cant understand how it would zero otherwise.
No idea on this guys situation but my group gave out a few zeros pre-COVID and hear we are getting back to that, its not usually a big suprise who gets it. From a firm perspective, its a good way to get people to leave without the PR headache of formally firing people. You can technically stay but most won't / they'll make it inhospitable for you, 0 bonus, bad staffings, hell, even a bad seat on the floor.
Literally wasn't even on my radar
Expectations were not high, was prepared to suck it up to a point. Not this point though
zero here too. zero base increase as well. yikes
What level ASO?
Sorry.. you M&A ?
The bonuses were a train-wreck. The argument of this being a bad year is not really fair. Last year even though was a record year, bonuses were pretty normal at junior levels and MDs / EDs pocketed large chunks. The cuts however this year have been loaded onto Analysts / Associates too !
MD and EDs hold the relationships. When market comes back, you can always hire A&As quickly / grind your existing juniors, but hiring people with relationships has a very long lead time in comparison. Senior comp is also more variable so you can turn it down more on a percentage basis. It’s fucked up but it makes sense to pursue this strategy.
100% agree with this. Not paying your MDs is exactly how EVR / CVP will poach your rainmakers in downturns. Tough for an MD to turn down 30% guaranteed rev share at EVR / CVP if they get no bonuses at MS
Sounds pretty sensible what MS did
protect their senior producers and top 25% of everyone else.
it sounds cruel but mid bucket associates at a bulge bracket firm are just not worth 400-500k in a buyers market
also doesn’t look the layoffs are that bad
Ok Mr. MD.
I'd much much rather have been laid off in November than waste 2.5 more months just to get fucked anyway
I was zeroed once. Totally political. It completely sucks, and there’s no two ways about it. I’m still working on the ruination of the individual responsible. Get back on your feet and get revenge.
You don’t know what you’re saying…
Surprised to see many zero bonuses. Not a good move by MS
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