Racism on Wall Street as a SA
Thoughts? Post talks about being a POC on Wall Street. For context, the account was created by a Queens University student to document discrimination at the business school which sends many kids to Wall Street from Canada, but is also known for taking rich, white, private school kids.
This happened to someone I interned with at a US top BB. No POC in our group received offers...we had one intern who was garbage but was an Asian/white female who got a return over someone who was a POC that was always staffed on something/grinding away. Mind blown.
Hey, Asians are POC too...maybe not as disadvantaged as other POC, but I think the coronavirus has proven what us Asians have known for a long time, and that would be that people are still racist towards Asians
If they didn’t get an offer it’s probably because they were incompetent or unprofessional (as it is 99% of the time). The way this is written with the boogeyman privileged white girl getting through her job while exerting zero effort sounds ridiculous.
Probably BS or absurdly exaggerated.
I'm likely going to get a ton of MS for saying this, but whatever...
We need to know the full story on things before blaming every POC's obstacles on racism.
In the post, it's kind of clear why Jill got the offer and Sarah didn't. To a higher extent than Sarah, Jill connected with the team more and was able to relate to the bankers on a personal level. Based on the post, it seems that Jill had more in common with the bankers (the ones who make the hiring decisions) than Sarah does, and Jill was able to hold a much longer and deeper conversation with the decision makers. There is more to being a great intern than working long hours. You need to connect with the team, show that you can be next to them for 80 hours a week, and be a people-person (after all, this is a client facing business). You need to be likable. Can they grab a beer with you? Can they sit at the airport with you? You get the point.
Some of you may say "Well Sarah isn't able to connect with the bankers because she comes from a less fortunate background". Well, that makes it a class thing, not a race thing. Because they still hired her as an intern knowing she was black - it's not like they didn't notice when they were interviewing her for 6 hours and she just became black after she accepted the offer. And some will follow up with "Well, how would POC from less fortunate backgrounds be able to relate to wealthier bankers in the first place? They don't have rich parents who also own vacation homes in the Hamptons. That's not fair". That's right, but again - it's a class thing, not a race thing. It's possible a poor white intern will not be able to connect as well with a rich white MD as a rich black intern would. In this case, they still hired her as an intern, knowing that she was black. If they were really racist, they wouldn't have hired her as an intern in the first place - and I can tell you for sure, there were a 100s (if not 1000s) of people in line behind Sarah for that spot. And they gave it to her.
The reality is, even if interns aren't rockstars, they can still get hired if they are likable. If you were awarded two free tickets to the superbowl, who are you going to pick to go with you - your friend Tom, or stranger Bill, some poor guy who knits his own jerseys and has been dreaming about going since he was a kid? You're going to pick Tom. Because you know Tom and you like Tom. But that doesn't mean you have anything against Bill. Similarly, in this case, it seems the bankers got along with Jill more (assuming she was competent), so they picked her. Maybe there was one spot, who knows. Maybe the team felt like Sarah didn't get along with the team that much. Again, we need all the details, but it's likely that they didn't give Sarah an offer for other reasons (fit, work quality, budget, etc.) - not because she was black. Again, they still hired her as an intern, knowing she was black. If they were racist, that would have never happened. And no - HR has no say in hiring a specific amount of diverse folks to meet "quotas". Shit candidates are shit candidates. The only thing HR does is provide the opportunity for minorities to interview with the firm, and encourage us to give them a chance (which most groups happily do - in fact, minorities are some of the hardest working folks out there). But again, shit candidates are shit candidates - white, black, asian, brown, green, purple, doesn't matter.
What interns need to know is that there is working HARD, and there is working SMART. Yes, the quality of your work matters as an intern, but let's be real, you are expected to screw up here and there. As long as you "pass", it all comes down to how much the team likes you, how much you have in common, how well you get along, etc. Based on the post, it sounds like Sarah worked hard and Jill worked smart. Interns aren't hired because they can stay awake in front of a screen for 20 hours a day... And some of you are gonna hate hearing this, but banks are not obligated to give anyone offers. Does it suck if they don't give you an offer? Yes. Should they hire interns if they don't plan on hiring them for FT? Probably not. Do they owe you a FT job offer? No.
I get that the situation sucks for Sarah - but the post is very one-sided. We need to know everything before pointing it at race. It's an awful thing to be racist, but it's also awful to wrongfully assume and blame others of being racist without knowing everything.
Is this a joke? You really don't think that white female analysts aren't gonna bond with a white girl more in a predominantly white environment?
"connected with the team more and was able to relate to the bankers on a personal level" you don't think that this might be because of subconscious bias?
Edit: White boys and their monkey shit can kiss my ass
Sure there is a bias, but there's a difference between "I get along with her more because we have more in common" than "I didn't hire her because she was black". Liking someone and getting along with them more because they have more in common with you is one thing. Being racist is another. We need to know all the details. If you're the only black person and two white people are having a conversation about their white people things and you can't fully relate, it doesn't mean they are racist. If you went up to them and they said "sorry, we are talking about white people stuff, you can't join", that's different. Again, we need to know all the details and we can't just assume things before that.
Per the post, Jill made an active effort to get along with the team while Sarah had her head down grinding away.
And I'm glad you're not my analyst. Oh wait...
I agree. The sad thing is, this typically becomes a race thing — not because anybody is being racist, but because of demographics. How is some kid that grew up broke ever going to be able to chat it up about skiing trips and the Hampton’s etc etc. It has nothing to do with color of skin from the offset, but it eventually will, more often than not, have adverse effects on people of color simply due to their upbringing. I think one way to get around this is figure out how else to connect with somebody. Get creative; learn how to gab about pointless shit. Make them laugh. Ask them about their day. Let people know you’re there, and don’t alienate yourself because of your differences. Sure it might be more work, but as somebody who is a beneficiary of a capitalist system, you should be worried about getting ahead and not being hung up about getting even. - a POC
This is a fucking joke, you are literally part of the problem.
This joke of a thread only exemplifies why there's such a diversity problem in this industry
Yeah because people fail to acknowledge that there’s even racism in finance to begin with...sad.
Class and race are inextricably linked at the moment because of systemic inequalities in the past. That being said, as this country becomes majority non-white, things will change. As POC achieve and pass along generational wealth and folks continue to intermarry, the “Hamptons & Vail” crowd will be less rich white douchebags and more rich douchebags of all colors. Anyone who thinks a little affirmative action is going to undo hundreds of years of systemic discrimination is an idiot. The reality, albeit a sad and disheartening one, is that life just isn’t really fair right now and some things simply take time.