Realized how much harder recruiting is if you are an Asian/Indian male than anything else
If your name is similar to Raj Patel or Eric Zhang its such an uphill battle you've got to be Ivy or at the minimum some very good school like Vandy, Emory, UNC, UVA. Not to mention even those schools are very hard to get into if you're an ORM my high school's Indian salutatorian was rejected from Emory ED. If you're diversity URM or a woman then you're set up through the diversity programs. White males have it pretty hard too but most of finance is white male and Chad Smith is either very well connected or at the bare minimum has a cultural advantage. I will concede that its still difficult for a completely unconnected white male. Now many will counter what I'm saying by claiming that many people still break in. That's because we're GOATED like that. Nobody grinds as hard. However, its undeniable that the bar is so much higher.
Actually so facts. Asian Americans have far fewer family connections compared to everyone else. I know white women with incredibly strong family connections within banks that get the diversity candidate benefits that Asian men with no exposure growing up get. We're just expected to grind so much harder.
Full time analyst at a BB and I e seen firsthand how fucked up diversity recruiting is. I've observed a material difference in school prestige and overall technical competency btwn diversity hires and non diversity hires.
Most non-diverse hires are your typical Ivy 3.9 gpa, president of every club on campus, networking hardo, and grind wso / BIWS technical guides every waking moment of life.
The diversity hires, kid you not, that I've seen have like a 3.4 gpa from fucking Ohio state with no fucking understanding of modeling or corporate finance ( some girl didn't know what a DCF was).
Even when you manage to get a SA offer, the bar for a FT return offer is also much higher for non-diverse hires as well
I fucking work with that chick from Ohio State.
I think every class at OSU has the exact same profile like that. What a fùçking joke
When analyst classes get smaller (recession) they'll hire less non targets - women hires won't be coming from Ohio state anymore thankfully
Some of the nontarget asian/indian males are extremely competent though
Truly fucking painful. It's incredibly hard for Asian males out here. Couldn't get any worse
It's just like affirmative action - if you're black / latino / native american / etc. you benefit from diversity programs, but get shafted if you're Asian or Indian. With affirmative action, not only is there no benefit to being an Asian or Indian applicant, it's actually harder to get in. Which I mean totally makes sense to penalize another minority, but what do I know.
Your profile is probably just Mid. I've taken networking calls with plenty of Asian students. Clear difference between Asian students from targets vs. non-targets. Most of the non-target Asian students try to overhaul on internships and the recruiting process. Which results in a complete lack of personality and authenticity. Could also be a cultural difference. Honestly, have been unimpressed by most Asian students compared to other groups. Outside of the Ivy's, it's a cliff dive in terms of talent. Just a personal observation.
Some Asians come across as such hardos during networking calls. I shouldn't be left with the impression that you beat off to 10-Ks after talking to you.
Lol. Tbf tho banking is filled with hardos who jack off to 10ks and some bs models
Agree that ultimately a blend of social and hardo is required. But Asian/Indian boys have to be hardos cuz the bar is much harder than typical candidates (excluding white males who also have no family connections). They have no choice but to embrace the grind. Meanwhile current analysts just flirt with women diversity candidates during campus presentations and networking calls. Systems fucked many banks have very little Asian/Indian representation. and there's no way that can be explained proportionately by the stereotype that all Asian/Indian candidates lack social skills cuz that's just bullshit. Sure some aren't the most social but that's most definitely not all. Almost racist of you to generalize them like that.
I actually have a couple of offers and my profile is not mid by any stretch. Ivy, Econ+Math minor in CS, 3.9, 3 internships, and president of 2 major clubs. I have just made these observations going through the recruiting process myself and seeing those around me.
Seem like the type to beat off to 10-Ks
Many Asian kids at non-Ivies would have probably been Ivy students if they were anything else
Definitely some Asians that are complete hardos and do nothing other than school, clubs, IB recruitment, etc. I don't really hold that against them. I respect the grind and understand the pressure they're under for near perfection. The attitude of "shit on someone for trying / putting a lot of effort into something" was really cool 40 years ago though.
Just because someone works hard doesn't automatically mean they don't have social skills, but yeah they won't be talking about their 3 times a week commitments of pickle ball and sweet green.
We Asians have it hard out here being discriminated upon left and right. We gotta stick together and help each other out.
Hopefully the newly established The Asian American Foundation (TAAF), backed by Joe Bae, Joe Tsai, Peng Zhao, etc. can be of help to the community and help the proverbial pendulum regain balance
Straight facts. We have literally not hired Asians because the bosses said we need to be diverse and hire white women... lol
It's an uphill battle fs. Still nothing would stop us from climbing up the ladder. To all my brothers(non-diverse no-family connection asians/Indians & crackers) who made it, congratfucktulations, you totally deserve your spot and you are him.
Gotta give some more love to the brown/Asian boys tryna network out here
Worst of both worlds fr. Just to give my brothers some hope tho - u can still do it even without an elite background/perfect stats. I did. I have a 3.5 from an unprestigious school and I'm starting FT at a BB this summer. The trick is not necessarily to grind harder cuz every Asian does that. Best strategy is not to be the smartest, be the most interesting. Go against the stereotype and show them ur not a robot (some of these comments prove my point). Join some cool nonprofits, have hobbies in the "interests" section of ur resume that nobody else does. Go out of your way in your interviews to show that you're sociable and have a sense of humor. Don't be afraid to be casual with ur interviewers, crack a few jokes (within reason of course). Biggest thing I've seen holding back some Asians is they don't pass the airport test/beer test even if great on paper. A white guy might be able to get away with just saying "oh cool we both played lax in high school," or "hey did u see the warriors game this weekend" blah blah but that's not gonna cut it for u unfortunately. U want to have something that makes people say "wow that's actually cool as fuck". Instead of spending your time raising your gpa from a 3.8 to a 3.9 or learning how to do a paper LBO in your sleep, invest in developing your soft skills and doing something that makes u truly stand out. Easier said than done of course - still an uphill battle with plenty of luck involved. But for anyone who's discouraged, just know it can be done. Work smarter not harder.
This is true. I just got an offer and in my super day, half the interviews was about my interests section
What did you do personally that counts as "cool as fuck" by those standards?
doesn't Indian count as person of color? I've seen companies count Indians as people of color for ESG reporting.
Is it possible that they're referring to the term "American Indians?" As in, Native Americans, who are often listed as underrepresented minorities in diversity recruiting.
no no, guys from India
Absolutely not lol. Indians are literally the wealthiest minority in America by far and there's a shit ton of over representation of Indians in all elite sectors medicine, finance, consulting, tech even politics I believe that 2 of the Republican candidates are Indian. There was literally something that blew up on this forum on an Indian kid faking being black to get into PWP
Pretty absurd considering many Indians have complexions way darker than black people, and by the same token face way worse treatment in society.
Indians may count as diversity in some EU/UK cases, not in the US for finance roles.
I am an Indian and i identify as black.
Yes it's a hilarious double standard - Asians and Indians count as minorities for ESG reporting but aren't eligible for diversity programs.
I can't wait until the world becomes a multi-polar world and the West finally loses it's monopoly on financial services and actually has to bring back some degree of meritocracy to compete. Let's do away with all this BS fakery already.
the issue is that the smartest Chinese/Indians prefer to be employees in US soil instead of building something in their country.
The fault is theirs for not building and developing their local businesses that could compete with the West.
Because of that, next generations end up in the same place as theirs: Lack of local attractive corporations --> need to work for foreign corporations.
China may outcompete US in the following decades, so maybe Americans will end up in the same position as Chinese/Indians competing for US banks. You never know.
I don't get the point. US corporations prefer THEIR locals, meanwhile Indian/Chinese corporation prefer THEIR locals. maybe you're young/naive to see that, but no corporation really cares about globalization/diversity/foreigners unless it helps the business grow/uplift reputation
so why don't recruit for your local corporations where you have an advantage in terms of fitting in with clients, sharing common backgrounds, mindset, etc.?
I don't see any advantage in having extra Indians/Chinese in a banking team. I may raise the % of those hires only if a) they have connections back in their country that may help my business / b) I'm planning to expand into their countries or / c) I'm building rockets and I need the smartest people out there no matter their nationality (won't happen).
As long as we have around 10-15% diversity hires in the team, that's enough to have some foreign languages covered and some different perspectives.
if you were an executive in China/India, would you recruit extremely talented people from Nigeria/Senegal/Camerun assuming they know the local language when your business is 90% aimed towards helping local companies? clearly 0% benefits imo
you're only frustrated because this recruitment mindset sabotages your interests, but business-wise it's the most plausible way to build a business long-term,
that's why I like to tell people that if you can't help a business improve or provide value, you'll be endlessly fighting with thousands of candidates that don't differentiate as much from you.
that's a reality about globalization that you don't learn in school/college because it's not politically correct
Genius this post is talking about Asian and Indian Americans what do hiring practices in New Delhi have anything to do with this
tf does even mean to be indian/chinese american
either you're american or you're not.
To be "their local" in the US you need European ancestors ok got it thanks !
european roots are older in US than chinese/indian.
The more ancestors you had in US soil the more American you're seen
But you are smarter to begin with
It's fucked up but what can you do. There's a lot of unfair things in life. For me personally, I just try to do what's in my control to fight it. I strictly only take networking calls from my school alum and asian brethren of any background. Regardless if how high the bar is, we always find a way to make it.
What's worse is that I've found East Asian men (I am one myself) to be BY FAR the WORST in terms of responding to my cold networking outreach. This is NOT true for East Asian women for whatever reason. Perhaps it's because East Asian men see each other as their competition in a cutthroat industry... perhaps they want to be distanced from their ethnicity... I have never gotten a single response from any of my cold networking emails to East Asian men, despite my response rate being quite good for every other ethnicity and even East Asian women. Not even my school's East Asian male alumni respond to me. I don't understand the complete inverse of racial solidarity.
So accurate bruh
spot on. Once they make it, they see their peers nationality-wise as something lesser lol
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