Renege a MF Credit SA offer for IBD SA offer?
I accepted a MF credit (think Ares, Bain, GSO) offer, signed an at-will contract a few months ago. Recently, was offered a classic IB position from GS.
To add-on, the concern mainly revolves around difficulties of lateraling from top BB to desirable MF from a non-target. Thought that it'd be easier to lateral between MFs than BB to MF (competing against candidates from targets.)
Would like to also hear monkeys who have seen consequences of reneging on a MF offer. What's the pros and cons of reneging? Given that the long term goal is to end up at buy-side and skewing toward work life balance (3-5 years down the road.) Most importantly, what's your view of my experience (2 MF credit investing roles, worked on 2-3 transactions) vs. a kid from BB/EB banking SA for FT banking/MF equity gig?
Do not freaking do this... you will be blacklisted by the firm, a MF at that. Finance is a small world and when you fuck the big players they will not think twice to squash your career.
ok prospect. why do you insist on speaking on these matters when when you don’t megafund from megaman
OP go ahead and reneg, just don’t post about it anywhere on LinkedIn or whatever until you start full-time
Sounds like someone who’s interviewing at GS and wants a spot to open up. Lol
LOL
Probably wouldn't be able to work at that firm again but idk how or why they would actively "squash your career". Obviously, don't send some rude email to them that pisses them off or wait until the day before the internship to tell them, and just don't update LinkedIn until FT. I went to a top target and actually knew a couple of people who reneged, and others who were willing to if they got something better, and they're all doing well. Of course, if you want to keep the possibility of working there in the future, you can try to do FT IB recruiting after credit SA, but that's your gamble to decide on.
Thanks for the insights. What’s your take on whether this worth reneging - for someone who knows for sure that doesn’t want to end up in banking down the road?
Don't renege for banking if you dont want to do banking
Don’t do it, you can pretty easily switch from MF credit to BB IB after you SA. Not worth burning bridges and the risk of people finding out. Finance is a small world but large-cap PE is an even smaller one.
Risk is that banks might have hiring freeze next year
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Are you dead set on investing on the equity side of things? Folks talk a lot about PE on here, but the credit world is much bigger, much more complex and can offer great pay with less risk/stress in your career and a very good W/L balance.
Exactly, why do you need to work in buyout PE. Totally grass is greeener thing. Besides GS won’t pay you shit
SB+1. Thanks for the insights but a bit surprised to hear that it will offer greater pays vs. the equity side. Lower stress and better work/life balance for sure. What's your view on opportunities down the road with the MF credit offer? In terms of growth, exit potentials (to other MFs, HFs, or banking)? Thanks
You should always have credit and distressed investing roles available to you as credit guys are more capital structure and structuring experts. That’s way more relevant / on topic with Covid and will have a better ratio of supply of people with the skill set vs demand for roles. Traditional buyout PE will be a lot more sharp elbows as that space is quite crowded and performance will be bad near term
I didn’t say greater pay, I said great pay. Equity there is unlimited upside but you are the first one to take a hit on pay (and get fired) if an investment doesn’t go well. In credit you have less upside but can still pull 500k-1m per year and have a good life with a relatively low risk/stress environment
I would absolutely not renege on a MF. Reneging on a bank is one thing, but the MF is likely a client of GS and no GS MD is going to be comfortable potentially pissing off a MF. Just stick with the MF credit, it’s probably a better opportunity anyway
I’m sure GSO will drop GS from its syndicate because a potential intern reneged an offer...come on...
Not saying the MF would actually care, but have you ever met a banking MD? They are incredibly anal about relationship management. Just the fear of potentially pissing off a big client could be enough to make them pull the kids offer.
I don't have specific insight on reneging, but as always I'd be cautious on reneging to move between big firms. No, the MF won't drop GS as a client, but all it takes is for an MD and Partner to somehow land on the topic of your name and that could be it. Especially when you go MF -> GS, you're more disposable at GS as they hire a larger class. Will the above scenario happen? Maybe not, but I'm not sure I could live with the fear. Finance is a small world and yes people will be assholes for no reason.
As far as career wise, if you want to do credit, then definitely start in credit and save yourself that time (and stress) of re-recruiting after banking. Just make sure you know what exact role you'll be doing in credit, as "credit" means a lot of things. You don't wanna end up doing direct lending or investment grade if your dream is distressed.
Finally, being a non-target definitely makes it harder for you to lateral FT as FT recruiting is very networking based. But in terms of SA jobs to have, MF credit is a great thing to have on your resume. You just need to make sure it gets looked at and not auto-cut by HR.
Thanks for the break-down. Right, as my main concern revolves around FT lateral from banking to MF from a non-target. Chances are looking slim... To you other point of HR, what's your view of my experience (2 MF credit investing roles, worked on 2-3 transactions) vs. a kid from BB/EB banking SA for FT banking gig?
Hard to pinpoint what each bank / HR at bank will exactly screen for, but some criteria my bank screens for in their FT process is GPA, previous experience, and school, with the major exception of course being if you are referred. Obviously banks prefer those with prior banking experience for FT hires, but MF credit experience is still a great thing to have. What's really more important here is if you can land an interview, since FT recruiting is seriously network-based. Some firms put interviews on website, while some others run the process discreetly. I think HR cut like 60-75% of FT apps from our FT process. If you can develop good connections and explain why you want to transition to IB from credit and you're a good fit then you may get an interview.
Bump
Why
The offer speaks volumes about your capability. Take the MF as that'll differentiate you come recruiting cycle. You'll get the same looks as the banking guys
+1SB fair point
Bump?
What did you end up doing? I might be in this position very soon here...
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