What's going on in Dubai?
I recently received an interview invite for an internship at a IB in Dubai and after doing some initial research it seems like there has been a lot of layoffs and with more forecasted to come in the industry.
It's been reported that in 2012 DB, CS, Nomura, BofA, and Rothschild cut a lot of investment banking jobs. Earlier this year, MS cut some jobs as well, primarily in its equities division.
Some articles have suggested that it's due to a lack of deal flow, mismanaged expectations about the growth of activity and crucially unwillingness for companies to pay fees:
"When Etisalat was looking to buy Zain last year, a large bank offered to advise them for a $2m fee. Now that's for a $12bn deal (which) would have easily cost the company about $10-$20m in fees in the West."
Anyone here got any idea on what is actually going on? Any advice for someone looking to build a career in investment banking there?
Investment banks are cutting everywhere, not just Dubai. I heard this year is a bad one for internships because banks aren't taking as many people as they used to.
True, anecdotally this year seems especially difficult in London. Many of my friends and classmates received one interview to only hear back weeks later that they are taking only 1 or 2 out of the dozens that they interviewed.
I heard the whores in Dubai are going back to Easter Europe.
Are most bbs firing now because i read an article that nomura and barclays are planning to hire and international banks are continiuing their expansion in the region. How is the IB scene looking in the next 5 years in dubai
Dubai is great if you like sweating and shopping malls.
I agree, to a certain point. What I really can't figure out is how come the BB's aimed to make money in such an environment such as the Arabian Gulf with the sort of deal flow and market structure.
Arab markets tend to look at commercial banks for money, unlike our western counter parts. With all the governmental expenditures going down and massive projects being undertaken, obviously the economy is not the key issue here.
Goes to show how ''immature'' the market is. And market saturation, ofcourse.
The Regional IBs and PEs are the real kings of the Middle East Finance Industry because of their vast connections with the elite which helps them to get lucrative deals in the market eg Abraaj, Mubadala etc. Thus the top firms based on Europe or America are getting really messed up at MENA region, so they are actually retreating from that region.
Can't speak for banking, but consulting in the region is doing better than ever. That's mostly because of huge public sector contracts (mostly Saudi). O&G is doing terrible though, so it could be that banking is more affected by this
it seems dubai is the place to be (Originally Posted: 11/27/2007)
hey guys,
i just want some feedback regarding an internship with dubai holding limited. It seems these guys are huge and they are paying their analysts much more than goldman sachs or any other firm is...does anyone know much about them??
I haven't heard of it, but it wouldn't surprise me. Dubai is flooded with money.
Well, they need to do something with the petrodollars....other than spend it on expensive cars and stuff.
"We are lawyers! We sue people! Occasionally, we get aggressive and garnish wages, but WE DO NOT ABDUCT!" -Boston Legal-
By Dubai holding limited do you mean 'Dubai Holding, LLC'- it includes 'Dubai International Capital, LLC'
Are you taking about internship opps at Duabi International Capital? That would be nice, but I doubt they take undergrad (or even mba) interns?
hmm...if im not wrong,...they do take interns...but apparently they are incredibly selective...so im not even considering it...but it would be great to work in dubai...no income tax!!! and compensation is higher if not as high as that of firms in the United states...
"but it would be great to work in dubai...no income tax!"
yeah, but you have to live in dubai. seller.
yeah...dubai isn't the best place to live...too hot and too saturated...but still the no income tax policy does compensate for that in some way...you end up saving a lot of money..
Absolutely nothing? Hell yeah that's alot of savings...Move on over to Dubai after school. Bet they give preference to UAE Nationals. I definitely wouldn't mind living there. Grew up in Miami so I'm used to living in the heat.
there are much nicer spots to explore in the region, but Dubai is just a soulless building site.
so many city folk go there for their holidays, no?
dubai is a hellhole
I went to Dubai for a deal and even stayed at the Burj Al Arab, it was something like $1400 a night. Put me in LA at the Ritz. They look at Americans weird, not that they look down at us, but it is weird; the women are nice and covered, very sexy (sarcasm); and I found stuff expensive, comparable to NYC.
I wouldn't trade NY for anywhere else. There's a lot of hype surrounding Dubai, but I've friends working there who told me how expatriates are discriminated against by the locals, and when it comes to the law, locals are virtually above the law.
Have you heard of all those cases about how men rape foreign girls/boys but the victims got lashed instead, while the rapists got off free/lightly?
There are other ways to make money, and no, I just don't want to live/work in oppressive cultures.
Dubai is great if you're an Arab man. It will be interesting to see if all their developments and infrastructure can sustain itself when the oil runs dry.
well only 4% of dubai's income comes from oil..and you are right...they are very racial...they are especially prejudiced against indians..even though indians are the reason why that economy has prospered so much....but honestly, ive lived there for ten years before....but i moved out a long time ago....so im not sure how it is right now...but i hear a lot of people there are trying to move to the United States..but the H1 visa cap is preventing them from doing so....
why are they prejudiced against indians?? indian employees(construction, engineers, drillers etc) built their infrastructure. and wow only 4% of dubai's income comes from oil? is the rest mainly from tourism? i think they hv "free" zones where msft, cnn, oracle all hv firms there.
Don't forget Halliburton.
"We are lawyers! We sue people! Occasionally, we get aggressive and garnish wages, but WE DO NOT ABDUCT!" -Boston Legal-
yes only 4% of their money comes from oil...its true...indians built everything, not only their infrastructure...but also the basis of their education and healthcare industry...most of their money comes from their trade free zones..but that wont last long...maybe for another 15-20 years...so now they're pumping all their petro dollars into foreign investments...and they are trying to become the next singapore with a huge financial services sector
The population of UAE citizens is very low in all of dubai pretty much. Mostly the population is europeans, especilaly the brits. Like the rest of the middle east, they prefer Canadians/Aussies/Europeans to Americans.
Also most of the middle east is very racist against indians/pakistan, and UAE is not far from the rule. All my UAE,Bahrian,Qatar friends at school are extremely racist against these races. They speak as if these people do all the labour jobs in their countries, but are not allowed to own businesses/property, so they still must give away alot of their wealth to that crazy guy in the desert with the golden car.
Also I beleive foreigners can not own real estate, property in UAE.
Lastly, UAE is totally about connections, so unless your friends with a sheik's son back there good luck breaking into that industry. And for the ones who don't have connections, there is tons of smart UAE kids at top schools around the world, being paid by the government to goto School. Also basically 95% of UAE kids return home, so your competition is very tough again.
dubai isn't a bad place at all. you're definitely not going to miss LA, Miami, NY or any other fancy city once you visit dubai. it's where the rich go to live. i don't mean to sounds like a pompous freak, but that is the reality. you're going to find discrimination wherever you go, so that really isn't a point of arguement. foreigners can own real estate in dubai. i haven't read through all your posts but i've seen some mixed reviews about dubai from the posts i did glance through. i grew up in dubai, but im not a local. im an indian. they do not offer citizenships to non-arabs. big deal, there's still plenty of money to be made there and fun to be had. dubai is F I L L E D with expatirates. you'd be lucky to spot a local (okay thats an exaggeration, but the point im trying to make is that the city practically runs on expatriates. get them out of there and it'll fall flat). in all honesty, you can only live a decent life in dubai if you've got the dough, and dubai is very expensive. but if you have the cash, there's nightclubs, hotels, fancy restaurants, all sorts of things. and as far as i know, the financial sector in dubai is still very young. i left dubai for the united states three years ago. im just doing university here in the states, but as far as i know, companies in dubai, especially ones with the stature of Dubai Holdings, do not offer internships. unless you have a contact that works there, you practically have a zero chance of getting in. although merrill lynch offers internships, as well as ABN AMRO. i only know this because i have had friends who have interned there. but, like i said, i've been away for three years now, and i'm pretty sure a lot has changed in those regards.
and the population of dubai isn't "mostly europeans and brits." sure, you'll see a lot of them there, but it is the indians and pakistanis that you'll see the most. they're the one's that built the city. but the laborers get treated like shit. dubai has some really messed up labour laws that need to be sorted out.
it is true CNN, Oracle and other have offices located in Dubai but they dont really do anything. those are just sales and marketing offices. they're dummy offices, if you will.
other than that, feel free to ask me any dubai-related questions and i'll be glad to help you out in any way i can.
also, i reccommend you see this..
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=articl…
www.difx.ae
the laborers in Dubai are treated like semi-slaves. Countries in the mid east are just in general stuck in the 19th century.
Visited Saudi, and the fact that they had separate shopping malls/cinemas (and everything else) for males and females just freak me out. Oh, women also have to wear this beautiful black gown that covers everything except their eyes in that freaking hot climate. Oh, it's such a privilege being a woman there.
Not to mention all the ridiculous laws (e.g. unrelated man and woman could be lashed >100x if they are found in an enclosed space alone), and if you get into trouble with the law and the counter-party is a local, you will NOT ever win against him. Do you want to be disturbed by some religious police while you are being intimate with your girlfriend?
Sure, if you are an expat, you can live in your own bubble and ignore all these things, but do you really want to live in such a country even for a short while?
it isn't like that in dubai. you have the wrong impression. dubai's more modern than most people make it out to be. everyone thinks it's the same as saudi and iraq and all because it's in the middle east. but that isn't the case. there's no seperate cinemas/malls for men and women or anything of that sort. that place is bachelor/bachelorette heaven. they have malls larger than 5 football fields put together and each of them are filled with high street stores and other known fashion stores. you'd be surprised. although i do agree on the labour thing you said. but that's only limited to the construction workers, and those sorts of jobs.
Who vacations in Saudi, or were you there on business?
talking about oppressive culture/nation, has anyone here experiencing living or visiting singapore?
i heard that all sorts of nasty shit about that place and how archaic or backward their laws are (of coz, still nothing compared to middle east)
though the economy there is pretty liberal i think..
i think singapore's fine, although any place ruled by one political party will inevitably have problems. race relations are good among chinese, malays, indians, and foreigners. nightlife is superior to anything in the us, since clubs and bars are open til 6 am. most of its repressive laws (no gum chewing in public, no eating or drinking on the subway, etc.) have to do with urban cleanliness, which after visiting some very dirty asian cities is a respite, and stunting the harmful things people do to their bodies such as drug abuse. the only issue is that penalties are very harsh for any offense and they are policed heavily. yes, they still perform unenlightened punishments like flogging in addition to jail time for serious crimes, but whatever. in short, i wouldn't characterize singapore as backward like a me country. the entire place is focused on attracting business, educating its citizens, providing a safe and clean environment, and having a competent government. of course, it comes off as sterile because it manages so many aspects of life.
"talking about oppressive culture/nation, has anyone here experiencing living or visiting singapore?"
singapore has NOTHING on saudi arabia. saudi still does public beheadings for god's sake. they also have a delightful crucifixtion, partial beheading combo. I would never set foot in the place, and I long for the day we find alternative energy and it goes back to being the shthole it deserves to be.
Jimbo
Dubai...I'm working over here, and was born and (partially) raised here...
Downsides:
Racism. The hierarchy = pakistani philipino indian other asian blacks other non-arabs (caucasians, latinos, etc) and non-GCC arabs GCC arabs emirati arabs. If you're caucasian it wont matter most of the time, HOWEVER, if you're pitted against an Emirati, odds may be in their favor. Believe me, it gets annoying when you have to correct your associates' work.
Laws can be tweaked (or do not apply) for emiratis. As with any developing country, money can also be used to bend laws. This sucks for you, since $100,000 is relatively nothing here.
Your coworkers are likely to be mediocre and lazy. If you desire intellectual stimulation, bring a book.
Absolute lack of manners from the richer individuals (unless people want something from you)
Bloody expensive to live here, especially with 9+% inflation (likely to be more since these are govt figures, and they tend to poll Emiratis who dont pay rent, have subsidized utilities and groceries, etc)
Dont misunderstand me - there are benefits, which is why I'm still around.
Upsides:
Your coworkers are likely to be mediocre or lazy. Makes it VERY easy to shine and shoot up the ranks.
No income tax.
If you're female, this place is heaven - very rich guys, and a skewed guy/girl ratio.
Sun for 350 days.
Appealing work hours. Even in IBD, all-nighters are rare. I pulled only one every week and turned into a legend at my firm (which is a well respected firm). The other analysts in my batch pulled only one (average of 0.7 actually) in the previous financial year.
All the above notwithstanding, this place really gets to you after a while. The utter lack of soul, lack of respect for other people (depending upon their financial clout & race), disregard for human lives, etc just makes you want to leave (odd coming from a banker, i know)...which is why I'm planning an exit in a few years...
btw: Dubai Holdings has godawful bonuses. I'd suggest you find out more about that before turning down names like Goldman.
I interviewed for a capital analyst position for Abu Dhabi Macquarie Capital and I think they were being a little too selective... better luck next time...but my friend in Bahrain tells me, once I get it, it' going to be a big package that has 'everything'. Career development may be a different story though...
That said, I think they are mainly looking for bankers with 3-5+ experience (to impart knowledge on the locals). Undergrad positions are likely to go to Emiratis I think, in order to reduce their unemployment rate and inferring from the government's hailed campaign of 'emiratisation'
Dubai Holding is definitely a great place to work, I have friends who both worked and interned there. If I were you, I would definitely take it. Sure, Dubai is really hot in the summer (no offence, but Miami doesn't quite compare), but everything is airconditioned anyhow and you get used to it really fast, at least that's what I experienced and I spent a couple of summers there. In terms of living in Dubai, the one thing that's really expensive is rent. Everything else I don't really find expensive at all. I am sure Dubai Holding pays really well and one of my friends who interned there got free housing from them too for the whole summer, so you could ask them about that. Personally, I really like Dubai and would work there anytime, but as expressed by the different views on this thread, it seems that opinions vary greatly. I think you will either love it or hate it. In terms of racism etc., it really depends on what kind of people you surround yourself with. You may notice it, but at the same time Dubai is also a very multicultural place, so you will meet all kinds of people there.
I dont think those of u who 'have' lived and worked in dubai know what ur talking about. First off, as far as the indians,pakistanis,nepal.. there are 2 types. The poor laborers(who are not treated well and are worked like slaves, literally) The 'other' indians are actually business people and they pretty much are the ones who really 'run' the corporations(the show). The arabs just sit back and do really nothing.
The problem with dubai is that its mostly run by the BRITS and INDIANS. IThese are not the good ole indians u are used to working with in the states. Indians are very political in the office arena, even worse are the BRITS. They love to control others, especially americans. They are actually intimidated by american talent. Were actually smarter and have a simple approach to complicated issues but the brits dont like that.
Anyway, I would never,ever,never leave NYC to go to Dubai. If u guys dont believe me then just go and check it out. Trust me, most of u will be back in the states in no time. Just my 2 cents
Yeah,dubai doesn't compare to NYC. Sure you can have a maid and a nice car but thats about it.
Dubai’s Boom and Bust (Originally Posted: 11/29/2011)
Although I began a blog on Dubai’s pro’s and con’s, I instead started to tell a story about Dubai’s boom and bust. So now, my intention is to describe Dubai’s background and transition into a pro’s and con’s piece later this week. My hope is that if this sort of mindless boom were ever to develop again, someone, somewhere would remember Dubai and retell its story.
Although a lot of Dubai’s boom investment came from foreign sources, Dubai had a ton of cash even prior to the FDI. The city’s royalty owned plentiful rights to oilfields, but eventually sold all of it in order to finance their dream city. Before the construction began, the only visible wealth was Sheiks who lived in lavish compounds and drove around in fleets of bombproof G- Wagons.
Initially, Dubai’s rulers had their fundamentals in order. For one, there was no income tax. They built a huge port and surrounded it with an even larger tax free zone. Corporate regulation was loose, and customs inspections were, and still are, easy-going. They laid out 5-lane wide highways, and built a decently sized airport. A beautiful canvas was created; the only thing missing was the paint.
I lived in heart of Jumeriah Beach from 1997 to 2002. In that time frame, I feel like I woke up one morning and witnessed a small city on the gulf instantly turn sand into steel. To further illustrate my point, between 2001 and 2006, about 25% of all the world’s construction cranes were located in Dubai. Today, the majority those cranes are gone, and have left many buildings unfinished.
During a time defined by excess and greed, Dubai was the decade’s poster boy. Financial firms located regional headquarters in a noisy financial district, celebrities bought into man-made islands like the Palm, and to bring everything full circle, Russian prostitutes arrived by the boatload. In a part of the world where countries vigorously oppressed vice, gorgeous escorts surrounded financial analysts nightly; all while Dom Pérignon endlessly flowed to the worlds best DJ’s.
Ultimately, a manic desire to build the world’s tallest building was the straw that broke the camel’s back. In the midst of the global financial crisis, Dubai requested an $80 billion dollar bailout from Abu Dhabi, a more frugal, neighboring city. Abu Dhabi had a list of compliance requests, but some where at the top of that list was a slap in the face. Abu Dhabi said that if Dubai wanted to complete the world's tallest building, that was OK, they just could not name it "Burj Dubai". Instead, the monstrosity would be renamed Burj Khalifa, after Abu Dhabi’s leader, Sheik Khalifa bin Zayed al-Nahyan. To Dubai’s glorious rise, nothing could signal a more shameful end.
Great blog. What are the laws like Dubai? Are they very strict like other Middle Eastern places or would it actually be possible for a Westerner to live comfortably there, without having to change their normal behaviour?
Good questions.
If any other monkeys have more questions, please just list them here and i will answer them in a pro's and con's piece about living in Dubai tomorrow.
Does being arab help get me an internship/job there? lol
Would I absolutely need to know the language to find a job in dubai or would english suffice for a career in the financial industry?
I have mixed feelings about this. Dubai was an awesome display of capitalism and the ability for the Islamic world to modernize. For the Middle East, it was the "shining city upon a hill". Granted, they did have significant natural resources...but they tried to develop the country into more than just another OPEC exporter.
Then again, they also made some really bad investment decisions...to embrace capitalism is to be punished for foolishness.
I wanted to work in Dubai for years...the idea of basically living in a seaside Las Vegas with no taxes seemed awesome. The cost of labor was low enough that Then I started to realize that:
(a) you live in an awesome city, but you are surrounded by some really scary countries (b) the country is only liberal (and therefore habitable to the average westerner) because it has a liberal sheik (c) it would be hard to transition back to the USA (d) although they love Western $$$, you are still an outsider and occupy a caste below the emirates and (e) the whole thing looked really unsustainable.
I briefly had a neighbor who worked for an oil co., and often did stretches of time in Dubai. Apparently everything for business is done in English, and most people speak English fluently. Of course, knowing Arabic helps get you the job, but apparently the language is really dialect heavy, not to mention incredibly complex. He compared learning Arabic to get a job in Dubai is like learning Mandarin to get a job in Hong Kong. Of course, this was during the good times...I am not sure anybody is getting jobs there now.
How fucking tall is that building. I know its actual height, but in person?
How great is the demand for Western-educated individuals in the financial industry in Dubai? Also, my dad recently went to Dubai, and from the videos he recorded, it looks like a very fancy ghost town....
What do you think was the fuel ( no pun intended) for the boom in Dubai?
I thought that it was mostly based on the energy industry in the Middle East and since oil prices dipped during 08' that affected Dubai since it was the financial nexus of the ME. Now that Gas and energy prices are rising once again, do you think that there would be another boom? Especially after the Arab Spring where more Arab governments would need financing.
One of my profs told me that they now, generate more money from their financial markets activities than from oil & gas.
It's clear that Dubai grew too fast through the past decade and there is a reasonable amount of infrastructure there that has been/will be a waste of capital.
However, I do believe the city has asserted itself as one of the leading/main tourist destination in the Middle east for Western tourists. I believe there is a large amount of westerners looking to travel to the area (for the novelty/unexplored romance of the region), but Dubai is one of the only cities that can provide the safety and amenities for those of us looking to travel there.
In all honesty, where would you rather visit in the middle east without having to worry about your head being blown up on any given street corner?
Its interesting to see that property has been at the heart of most of modern day collapses. Ireland US UAE
Interestingly enough - Canada's and Australia's house prices are still quite high on a wide range of measures but they didnt experience a meteoric rise such as that in the above 3.
Remember that the Dubai from 1997 to 2002 is far different to what it is now. I was a monkey of various levels based in Abu Dhabi and Dubai, and worked most of the region from 2006 to 2010. The difference between when I got there and when I left was night and day, I'd expect even more so from 2002 to now.
Man, if property bubble is the fault of its collapse, I do fear greatly for Canada and certain cities like Vancouver and Toronto where real estate is astronomical
Interesting.
These Persian Gulf arabic countries went on a spending spree and ultimately failed.
Building man-made island is not only stupid but also hurts the Persian Gulf waters due to pollution etc..
I forsee a long decline in these countries especially with the numerous US bases located there.
Dubai was just crap sugar wrapped and presented to everyone to be the next Hongkong.
The fact of the matter is, the future's whore houses will be located here.
Anyone know anything about life at ADIA? I had an acquaitence in college whose family worked for ADIA and he said he could get me an interview there if I would like but I kind of lost touch with him. He said compensation for Americans out of undergrad was $120-150k with low taxation. Seems a bit high to me.
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