Why aren't Asians/Indians/Middle Eastern considered diversity
This isn't a post to bash diversity programs or anything like that - I am just genuinely curious.
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For east/south asians it's that they're overrepresented as a proportion of the overall population (ignoring that there are many different ethnic groups under the 'asian' umbrella). Middle-eastern individuals are counted as white for some reason so there's that lol.
guess where the Caucasus mountains are.
I'm from the Caucasus region and I assure you, no one has ever categorized my looks as "white". All the discrimination of being "middle eastern" with none of the benefits of being "white"
No clue why middle easterners aren’t diversity. Definitely under represented in finance and socially discrimination against them has increased dramatically in the past 20 years
An American couldn't tell the difference between a Spaniard and an Egyptian.
the food
So what if they can't tell the difference? You can't tell the difference between a lot of white people and latino/a people. The latter is still considered diversity.
homie take a walk around Madrid, trust me you couldn't either
It's because MEs are classified as white in the United States. This was a decision made last century, but it is what it is.
Because diversity programs aren’t meant to actually achieve diversity, they’re just for optics so companies can say they’re helping “underprivileged” groups. Nobody perceives Asians and Indians as being underprivileged or needing help because they’re generally very high performing groups. If you’re following the Harvard admissions lawsuits you’ll see that Asians consistently outperform every other racial group in terms of standardized test scores, to the point where they are discriminated against in admissions because they would occupy too many seats otherwise
I agree but not every Asian is Indian or Chinese and not all Asian are a capable of academically performing well Soo....
And those who do not perform well academically will not be represented because they don't fit the mold (a high achieving academic). The point of diversity is to give underrepresented groups who performed just as well as those who are adequately/over represented an equal chance to succeed, it is not meant to give underperforming prospects a position just because they are diverse.
Exactly, that’s why it’s such a ridiculous game. They just want to put people in buckets without any consideration of nuance
Agree. Diversity is subjective to the organization unfortunately and at least with indians, they tend to be overrepresented in high finance along with oriental asian candidates. Also doesn't really help that indians are the highest earning minority in the US
Because they're very overrepresented in finance (in terms of their population proportion). If black people all of a sudden became overrepresented, these programs wouldn't accept them anymore too. Also why first generation, LGBT, and those with disabilities are considered diversity/underrepresented.
What do you mean “perceived.” It’s a hard fact that Wall Street has been extremely discriminatory towards black people. These diversity programs were to try to encourage them to come in since the environment has been historically, and likely still today, bad for them. There’s been studies done where resumes with ethnic names or hints perform worse than “white sounding” ones as well.
Asians are overrepresented in the field. It really lacks nuisance bc some Asians (Laotian/Cambodian/Indonesian for example) do not have the same representation as Chinese/Indians
Literally this ^ excluding Chinese and Indians, Asians are severely underrepresented
Because the way the US thinks about diversity is completely broken.
It likes to make generalizations of a wide group of people and lump them together as being 1 group.
Also, pretty racist that they even care about what race you are. Quoting Bill Maher, "If you ever want to make the next Schindler's List, just start measuring the racial breakdown of your company. Oh wait we're already doing that"
To me that really only applies in how you're using that data. If you build a bias system built upon exclusion, then obviously a comparison to Schindler's List seems comparable. But to use that breakdown to make allocation decisions for resources is what we do in everything. There's nothing inherently wrong in racial stats unless they're used inappropriately. Everyone treats diversity as some sort of social vision of perfection of how to achieve social success. What if it's simply to expand the way we do education in this country?
You kind of have a point but it's really a slippery slope.
Diversity and inclusion has always been that no one should care what the color of your skin, ethnicity, race, religion, and sexual orientation you are (the way you're born). So to collect stats on it and to "try to achieve" some poorly defined goal just doesn't make any sense to me. Once you start collecting stats, whonknows how you can use it? The tone of the country can easily change and people can start using it for terrible things.
The French banned collection of racial and ethnic stats as part of their Constitution. They're still struggling with personal racism there, but at least they completely eliminated future prospects for institutional racism.
I think it is true the statement about companies really not caring about achieving REAL diversity.
But I also think that it is a numbers game. These are completely made up numbers, but say the US population is 5% Asian, and finance is comprised of 10% asians, then wouldn't really be underrepresented minority, if that makes senses.
I don't agree with it for the reasons others have stated. "Asian" to Americans is just one big group that lumps every country together regardless of their particular representation.
Yes, it's true that there are a decent bit of Asian/Indian/ME in banking. However, I've always been bothered by how few are VP-level and above. Anyone else noticed this or is it just my sector? Tons of Asians in banking at analyst/associate levels.....very very few Asian MDs....kind of BS
Yea its called the bamboo ceiling.
I've seen countless number of MDs. Not sure what you're talking about
What sector do you work in if you don't mind me asking?
yeah, tons of indian MDs - hella pull for analysts too - got me an offer lol
Yeah, it's because diversity is only racist against asians/me when it benefits blacks, but at management levels where the white position is more secure, who cares about asians.
this is just false
Currently dealing with casual racism at a BB by my co workers up to the senior level, banks do not care and neither do co workers so at a certain point you just grow tired of it.
Not sure what you're talking about. In TMT, it seems nearly half of the MDs are SE Asians (Chinese, Koreans, etc)
Really interesting.....must be sector specific....don't want to out myself by sector, but in my industry, I could count Asian MDs on one hand....and I've met with just about every bank out there.
Asians = one of the majority groups if you're in west coast banking
It's because all the Indian VP and up levels are working in tech funds or high-level execs in tech companies. Ofc I am talking about the first wave of Indians (i.e. the ones that immigrated here after studying engineering or math). It will be interesting to see how the next generation of Indians will place.
Plenty of Indian MDs at Blackstone
I can tell you having been on both sides of the fence (Indian / Chinese trying to break in and now that I'm in, seeing how hiring works), Indians and Chinese males have found themselves in the happy position of the 'worst of both worlds'. They're not good ol' boys with a country club membership whose dads know the MD and they aren't great candidates for the picture of the front page of bank's websites showing all the different colours and genders.
This is incredibly accurate
Absolutely spot-on. I’ve noticed this with a lot of Chinese/Indian coworkers. They can get hired because of great grades and a diligent work ethic. However, they can’t seem to break through to the senior ranks in large numbers because the people doing the hiring are largely white males who subconsciously (sometimes consciously) favour other white males for promotion because of similar backgrounds, shared interests, or pandering to a largely older, white client base.
Yup exactly....there is a perception that if you're not part of the good old boys crowd of watching football, playing golf, and hanging out at the country club, you won't be able to sell products/services to management teams that are largely part of that same clique.
In my opinion, one thing that gets overlooked is that this stuff doesn't matter when everyone promotes homogeneous candidates to MD. I've personally seen this play out: MD from GS comes by and talks about college football, MD from BAML stops by and talks about college football, same for the next 5 or 6 banks in a row. Being part of the good ole boy network doesn't help if everyone else is also....
If the 7th MD came by and talked about M&A and mentioned watching cricket this weekend, hell I would enjoy a different conversation for once! Also, in many ways, the good ole boy promotion approach underestimates management teams. Most are highly educated people with varied interests outside of just football, golf, and the country club in the 21st century, yet it feels like MD promotion cater to management teams from the 1950s.
Diversity is just a marketing tool for attracting candidates. No one has a ton of marketing spend directed at people with high participation and awareness.
what about if you're transracial and identify as a different race
Lololol. This should totally be a thing.
If people feel like they can identify as Apache Helicopter as their gender, why shouldn't I able to identify as African American? After all, Africa is the cradle of humankind.
Jeez not another diversity topic.......seems to be weekly topics and are pointless
Why aren’t furries considered diversity candidates?
Because Steven Wonder is head of HR
To all the Asians that feel underrepresented, come to West Coast(SF/LA)!
LA > SF if you want to meet actually attractive people and not be surrounded by a toxic bubble of fake liberals
My biggest issue is that "Hispanic/Latino" is generally separated from white in the US. It is like someone in Brazil saying "North American" is a race.
Ex: Nancy Pelosi would not be Hispanic in the US, but Pope Francis would, despite both being of Italian descent. (Pope Francis was born in Argentina.) Similarly, an ethnically Japanese person from Sao Paulo or Lima would be considered "diversity" but if they came directly from Tokyo they would not. I don't understand how the former person faces systemic disadvantages versus the latter person.
I think the whole Hispanic/Latino thing should go away and be replaced with actual racial origin. It could be Caucasian, African, South or East Asian, or Mixed Amerindian. Many LatAm countries are extremely racially diverse, and (for example) blacks in Brazil arguably have it far worse than blacks in the US. Everyone on this site agrees that a second+ generation white Spaniard girl whose dad is an MD has pretty much everything going her way, both in terms of recruiting and general life. OOOH, an Indian or Chinese boy faces some prejudice in regular society (i.e. "go back to your country") and has an uphill battle in recruiting/college.
That being said, I occasionally read a couple pro-diversity articles online. I immediately stop when they use "Latinx."
"Latinx" is the stupidest thing on the planet that had to be invented by people who don't even speak Spanish. Do they not get how the language even works?
Mi casx es su casx
Wait till you hear "womxn".
It takes time - first generation Indian-American here. My generation's children will infiltrate all these high finance roles don't worry.
For what it's worth I'm north african (some kind of african arab if you want) and I know that it's pretty hard for us to recruit into big banks, because we are too white to be considered diversity and too brown to be considered white.
Nah bro you would still be considered black. There’s a lot of white looking Hispanics that can still be considered Hispanic, so you’re def fine
Tbh my skin tone is close to an hispanic/greek/southern italian, when I was in Canada people started speaking to me in spanish and I was like: " Wtf bro why are u talkin spanish to me?"
So I doubt I could call myself black without anyone noticing xD
Your question broadly tends to be inapplicable at least in the states to Chinese / Korean / Indians given their prevalence and success in high finance. I think it becomes difficult to differentiate if you're 1) dealing with one of the above ethnicities (and pardon me if I'm missing one) where a candidate came from an underprivileged background and 2) a candidate falls into "Asian" but isn't a widely recognized race such as Laotian or Bangladeshi. Many folks from those communities face difference challenges which kids who grew up chinese / indian never faced but are bucketed with them given their continent of origin. No right answer on how to solve this but definitely presents a tough argument.
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