Women in IB
I am making this post because I’m genuinely curious. I’m a woman myself and I’ve noticed other women in finance are absolutely each other’s biggest haters. It’s unbelievable how many mean girls i have met. They literally never miss the chance to put you down or humiliate you. It just surprises me because this industry is already male dominated so why are we against each other as well. Basically nobody is your friend or ally. And older women that are supposed to be your mentor are way ruder than younger ones. It feels like this is just the women in the industry tho. Guys don’t seem such big bullies to each other. Actually they are all buddies or whatever. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but this is what i have noticed so far.
Get over this victim mindset. Competition is normal in IB and most of you are not cut out for it, unless it is a DEI hand out train.
Yeah I agree competition is normal but trying to humiliate others seems a bit much
Also “most of you are not cut for it” relax this is excel work we are doing not nuclear engineering.
^^^She's right you know^^^
When I say “not cut out”, I don’t mean to question female intelligence but rather their perseverance and work ethic needed to succeed in this job long term.
bro thats not at all what she is saying... have you ever actually been around girls before lol - this is very accurate. This has nothing to do with the failings of DEI you just seem to be very weird.
This is not victim mindset. I have seen it firsthand. Even the girls who haven’t started their spring weeks yet are horrible. This is insane. I myself am a woman in finance and it is sad to see how the situation is. I also believe that it is systematically structured in a way that women are put against each other. They inherently see other women as competition. Even the senior ones dislike the new interns. This isn’t okay and shouldn’t be normalized.
See this is what I pointed out. First you lot get selected over more competent male candidates and then you also expect a smooth sailing on the job with no competition. I guess life is hard for females in IB so they should be directly promoted from Analyst to VP.
Yeah - contradicted yourself here. Total fucking nonsense.
I agree women bankers are terrible to one other. But it's in no way caused by the system.
A victim mindset is saying things like “the system is systematically structured” to pit women against one another…
Re: finance, which is it, a male dominated industry created and largely populated by males (meaning there would be no consideration towards designing any aspect of it around women)? Or is it an evil patriarchal construct designed to pit women who do get in against one another?
Apparently depending on the weather, it’s either…
Finance is not targeted towards or against women, it is just a ruthless and highly competitive industry where most people are only looking out for themselves.
You can cover your ears and say “la la la” but the proof is in the pudding. When men are not at risk of losing their jobs (because they can hide behind anonymity on this site), the frustration towards DEI and women (not all, but many) becomes immediately clear. If everyone is complaining about an issue… it probably means there is some legitimacy.
Why do you think this is something finance-related? We compete amongst our own sexes for resources, access to the opposite sex, and eminence/social status. There are positions and quotas that must be filled by WOMEN only nowadays. Obviously, that will naturally foster fiercer intra-sex competition. It is FEMALE nature not anything finance related. What is finance-related is that IB attracts a very specific type of person which is usually someone with a fragile ego, quite insufferable, and wannabe-Machiavellian. Many studies show in order to climb corpo, you more or less need to be a high-functioning psychopath. You need to take the initiative and find out how to DQ every other woman from taking the position you are gunning for. Making a friend who can share your unique perspective of being a woman in finance will obviously go a lot further most of the time, but considering the prior selection bias, it is best to take the initiative when another woman shows signs of hostility.
The reason senior women dislike new interns is that they have grown old and envy the younger women. That is nothing related to finance at all. Women all around the world exhibit the same behavior because you are reminding them of the non-existent sexual attraction they command.
As usual seeking favors. If women are this competent why do they need special treatment from banks and their bosses. Besides, you feminists have one common theme which is the lack of accountability and blaming all your ills on male peers with standard line being “it’s a male dominated industry”. I don’t see you striving for equality on the battlefields of Ukraine and during layoffs. Freeloaders!
must be crushing for these hardos when they see that the richest people in this business are likeable, have friends, and aren't tools.
Ignore title. As a man, I think the form of haterness in the workplace just takes shape differently. Guys will laugh about sports together, but usurp each other all the time when it comes to relationships, work projects, and pretty much anything that is helpful to advancement. While this may be dreary, it's important to realize that the only person that actually cares about your success is you. 90% of people who you think are your friends at work would have no problem with you getting fired if it meant they got a modest pay bump.
As a woman, I’ve noticed this too! The guy analysts have been much nicer to me. But it’s a lose lose: when working with guys, I find myself going out of my way to keep proving myself so they don’t think I’m a DEI hire and respect me, but that makes the girls lowkey jealous/passive aggressive. The guys also have their guy inside jokes and camaraderie that girls can’t really tap into. But the other girls are just super gossipy, and working with them feels competitive instead of collaborative.
Literally who said anything about the men liking her lol you just made that up
Guys sharing their inside jokes with you would lead to a sexual harassment charge
My daughter is first year IB and there aren’t many other women around her-her girl buddy just quit. Makes demanding job seem more isolating-she is certainly not a victim at all. She was top of her class and deserves to be there-she likes the job but the hours are weighing on her-women have more negative emotions and probably the stress of the job and potentially the mindset in general it takes to be there all combine to make for what you have experienced. She told me this weekend that the sleep deprivation really seems to mess up her cycle and harder to get balanced. I think men are better suited to be abused. I have been dealing with it my entire life and it feels normal- I think she will probably find something else after this or next year just for quality of life which I support completely- an absolutely beautiful bright funny as hell young woman has better things to do than 80+ hr weeks!
I'm also a mom - my daughter left after 18mths because she was being treated terribly. The insecure toxic VP only spoke to the men directly & spoke to the women in the 3rd party. She came from an Ivy and you could not find someone with more work ethic. Because of her experience she decided against PE and has just started in a compelety different position with people who know how to lead. Noone (male or female) should allow themself to be treated like dirt.
VP’s attitude explains that your daughter was likely a DEI hire. You are missing some details like how entitled your daughter was and how tough she was to deliver constructive feedback and would often label it as misogyny. Besides, do you see any parents posting about their sons; not that they don’t go through such experiences. Why is it “only” a big deal when women go through it …
Many women are in this position and we can see from most of the comments how bad the situation is.
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How much do u guys wanna bet the ‘VP in IB-M&A’ that’s incessantly commenting is actually a college dude that struck out of recruiting and blames his woes on competent women instead of doing some self reflection 😂
I’d bet it’s the same loser with multiple accounts flipping “DEI” into the search bar all day lol.
The guys are nicer to you because a) they want to sleep with you or b) they don't take you seriously. But anyone will bully anyone as long as money or promotion is in the question
I do tend to think it sucks to be a girl in finance these days. You have to be good or you’re not taken seriously due to the DEI shit show and then at the same time you’re dragged down by the other girls for being more competent. A bit of a Jackie Robinson type situation.
What saddens me the most is that, if DEIs were to completely go away, I wouldn’t blame banks for hiring very little from diverse groups. This really indicates how much these programs have failed the financial system and people of diverse backgrounds. DEI programs should have been meticulously focused on finding diamond in the rough representatives of these groups, to show the street the value of diversity instead of meeting superficial quotas.
Very well said
Numerous times HR has put a figurative gun next to our heads to hire/promote females over competent males just so that our bosses can meet their gender targets tied to their bonuses. More often than not they don’t pull their weight on files and we have to double staff them with male peers to facilitate their guest appearances. Tend to label constructive feedback as misogyny and try to gang-up on their male peers using “Girl’s girl”. Meanwhile, you have left-wing propaganda organizations like VersaFi churning out unreliable research on gender equity and using that to further the interests of feminist mafia with the sole goal of penalizing males and hurting their progression.
Complete opposite for me. As an analyst, the other female analysts I have been working / socialising close with made this job infinitely easier and I am really grateful I have them to talk to. Guys talk a lot of shit behind each other’s backs and then suck up to each other’s faces. Women gossip as well but not to the same obsessive extent and it’s more clear when they don’t like someone in a a group even if they don’t say it directly. As for senior women, they treat me the same way as they treat guys, and act the same way as senior men. Ultimately, it’s sound advice not to fully trust anyone, but personally a woman hasn’t broken my trust yet on this job
The amount of gossip from my male colleagues about each other surprised me lol. It was like watching RHONY. Felt I could confide in my female colleagues a bit better cause of this.
I mean if you haven’t noticed this is just females in general, females are always each others worst haters, most girls hate other girls
First of all, it is not “females”, u male. And second of all, if you genuinely believe women are just inherently wired to hate each other, you might want to reflect on where that belief comes from. Women aren’t born disliking each other—this behavior is conditioned by a system that pits them against one another. When opportunities are limited, when they constantly have to prove themselves, and when society rewards individual success over collective progress, competition becomes survival. Blaming women instead of questioning the structure that creates this toxicity is just lazy thinking.
As a very attractive girl in IB (5'2 90lbs blonde), I have received so much hate from some other female analysts. Mainly jealousy
"Zynlord14"
Okay zynlord14
Zynlord14 has 4 comments on WSO. On one he's talking about his experience as 90 LB blonde girl, in another he's talking about how hot the girls at U Miami are.
Conclusion: Zynlord did not get in any bids when he rushed, and now he is also not getting any internship offers. However, he will not be deterred by his lack of success, as he will spend his time online ranking the schools with the hottest girls as well as the best banks.
Not reading that essay
I’ve had a mixed experience, but also I’ve worked with far more men than women. We’re comparing a vast set of professionals that are men vs a small set of women (not apples to apples).
When I’ve seen it happen is mainly because some women (and men) think there’s only space for a few of them in the group, so they think of the other women as competition vs their peer.
It also happens that some women want to be “the only woman in the team” because they think it gives them an edge/differentiates them.
Yes I perceived the same, it is weird that women want to be the only one in the team instead of looking forward to have others joining with a similar perspective. Perhaps they are scared that it changes their relationships to their male colleagues but usually it helps to have someone understand you without having to explain yourself (not awalys the case though).
my mom is in medicine and she’s noticed the exact same thing there over her 30+ year career. it’s not just IB
Boo hoo. Who cares? Deal with it. The world isn’t going to bend over backwards for you.
Thank you for posting this thread. I was kind of thirsty this morning and the gallon of incel tears helped a bit, salt notwithstanding.
Just being honest.
Any time you have an environment where merit/contribution isn't what gets you ahead, it's going to feel like the Hunger Games because people compete on office politics instead of merit.
I once worked at a place that aggressively targeted hires with fancy credentials (even more than IB does) because it was important to the marketing of the firm to show clients lots of PhD's and impressive pedigrees. Once you got there, the actual work was super easy and commoditized because all the investment decisions were done by an algorithm that a monkey can run. You weren't there to make the place invest any better, you were just there to do process work and look good on the website with your fancy degree. That was the grift.
But people still wanted to get promoted somehow. And with no opportunity to add value, they had to rely on playing politics instead. People would literally invent useless projects so they could then lead the project and then claim credit for having led a project. "Our start-of-day NAV accounting could be more robust" that sort of shit. Costly initiatives launched solely for the purpose of career advancement.
And yes, people stabbed eachother in the back all the time. Busiest HR department you'll ever see. I saw a woman demoted for saying another woman in the office dresses too provocatively. I myself was reported to HR by a peer (i.e. competitor) for an "inappropriate relationship" with my literal gf who worked in another dept.
When people don't feel merit is their ticket, they turn to this stuff.
I suspect something similar is going on with women in IB. They're hired in a process that isn't entirely about merit. There's a widespread feeling that women are hired based on quotas or other kinds of direct favoritism. So if you don't necessarily feel like yours skills are the main thing that got you there, there's anxiety about what your strategy will be to be one of the winners come come cut time, bonus time or promotion time.
Before people come after me, let me say that men in IB are not immune to this. It's just more acute for women and any other targeted hires who didn't necessarily get hired to crush the work and thus aren't focused on crushing the work as their ticket to get ahead.
I'm a guy and have noticed this in every role I've been in. I obvi can't explain this phenomenon but it definitely exists if you pay attention close enough.
I think men just compete with each other their entire lives while women typically stick together. So men are used to be good friends with the same people they are competing with while women are new to this phenomenon. Which is why you think it’s a women thing when in reality it’s not.
Men, do not give up!
This must be an IB specific thing, the women I have worked with in both consulting and my other roles have always been nice to me.
I am a man, maybe they are worse to each other.
I think this is the case in any male-dominated field. There's more insecurity/competitiveness in women because it feels like there's fewer spots they have to fight for, thus leading to a cutthroat/jealous culture between them
How can there be less spots when banks are implementing ~50% gender targets in promotions / hirings. As usual “male dominated” is an excuse to pretend to be a victim and continue freeloading. Most top banks are no longer going to report gender stats as they claim their long term gender targets have been met
If you genuinely think an IB class, especially more senior like MDs, are 50/50 men and women, I recommend investing in some good quality glasses/anti-hallucination prescription pills. " Pretraga found that 30% of analysts are women, compared to only 6% of MDs." The more senior you go, the more male-dominated it is. Even if it was 50/50, women would still feel that competitiveness because it has been historically male-dominated. You have to recognize it's a psychological and cultural thing as well
I saw a lot of cases where it was not easy for women at all to survive in a team - they do not want to freeload, they want to learn and develop like all the others as well. It is not a pretention for them to be a victim, atmospheres in IBs and PE Funds are usually like ice age and women are more perceptive of that instead of shrugging it off and suffering in silence like most of us.
In addition, women face way more prejudice towards their skills without even opening their mouth than any other male colleague. People already perceive women to be less qualified just by their gender so they sometimes end up working twice as hard to be recognized.
Im in an american BB and our VP asked us to check what the probabilty of passing rounds is for each interviewer-candidate gender combination. You'd think that since there is such a small amount of women in the industry they'd help each other out. Well, quite the opposite. The gender combination that gives the candidate the smallest chances of progressing to the next round is woman on woman.
The spit never swallow, they always quit when it's clutch time.
I noticed both, women who are very helpful among each other and women who do not want other females to join their team, since they are the only ones now and they want to keep it like that.
It is honestly quite weird, I also though we rather support each other instead of stepping on other toes. I would love to see more support among women especially in finance.
We are not a lot and already have the prejudices from men in the industry. My team was always very supportive but the way they talked about other women in the room from consultants, lawyers or bankers was quite tough (I worked in PE). You realise there is still a big prejudice towards females in the industry.
Does anybody know of communities that are worth joining? It always feels good to connect.
Your first point about women wanting to be the only women there, is a huge one. Of course they don't mind if other women are there in other departments/levels that aren't competing with them. But I've personally witnessed a couple different times where a woman was enjoying her advantaged status as the only woman in the group and tried to prevent us from hiring more women.
From my observation, most women who try to put others down tend to be insecure in their own way - either they’ve always been the smartest woman in the room and now feel threatened, or they’ve never had strong female mentors to influence them in a positive way. In some cases, you might just be the easiest target.
I’ve been in this situation before, and honestly, the best advice I have is to know how to play the game. You can’t always push back, especially when dealing with senior people, but what you can do is set boundaries subtly but effectively. If they test you, stay composed, deliver your ideas firmly, and never give them the reaction they’re looking for.
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