Careers from a non-target?
What are some other financially lucrative careers (not ibanking) that are realistic for a non-target student to break into?
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Depends on your background. For example in pharma, a Qualified Person (essentially in charge of declaring the product as fine for commercialisation i.e. if shit hits the fan you'll be the first to be hanged) starts at about GBP70k. However you first need 2 years of relevant experience.
Private wealth management is a great option that is not nearly as competitive as ibanking but still has the potential for a large salary one day
Interesting. I heard PWM is pretty much being connected with very wealthy people or else you fail. I heard software sales is pretty good in terms of a commisions job. @differentialequations12" thoughts?
As you progress in your career it becomes a client relationship business (similar to investment banking), but you won't be expected to be winning new high net worth clients when you start out. You're talking about an entry level job here...
PWM typically isn't a stepping stone to get to IB or anywhere else. It's a career and a very lucrative one (potentially). You don't even need to be connected to a big bank as many financial advisors are independent. That said, starting with a large brand would likely be easier (payouts are MUCH lower at the banks once you transition to fee based or commission but they did help you get your start).
I work with many who make high 6 figure , low 7 figure in recurring revenue model. Early years are lean and difficult. You have to be great at building and managing relationships, client facing activities, and closing. One thing institutional folks don't necessarily appreciate, the retail advisor actually has to ask for and get checks. It's very different when someone is giving you their personal money to watch over vs. doing something for their company. If the company takes a hit, so be it. If you lose their personal money, that's a big deal. I've been on both sides, and believe me, they care a lot more when it's their money.
A benefit of starting with a brand is working as part of the WM team, training, advertising, etc. They also will give you some client facing responsibility with smaller accounts (although none of them should be too small within the PWM arm of a BB or large institution. Many will have minimums of 500k) For those that make it, they typically become lifers at the firm (because breaking away and moving clients is too difficult - also they become institutionalized and don't want to do it on their own) or break away fairly early to set up their own shop. The independent world is great but it's not for everyone.
Ultimately, this is a relationship gig. You become the product. The real money is in it for those who stay a long time. I'm 54 and most of my contemporaries in this space don't need to work. They have books of 100M + and earn a minimum of 100 Bps on a recurring basis. Their early yr hustle has turned into a relationship management / client service gig. Many don't even take on new clients because they don't need to, work less than full time and make seven figures, all while helping others reach and maintain their financial goals.
No career path, unless you're one of those non-targets with a growing presence on the Street. Just hustle and fight for every spot.
I don’t really view college as providing a career path as it’s not practical training, rather education. Certain schools that have specialization programs offer a career path. Schools like Harvard that offer the most powerful people in the world who graduated from there offer various career paths. But generally, an education seems like an isolated achievement.
There are some programs like the smeal school and Nittany Lions that seem to offer a career path (based on recent activity I’ve seen, not personal experience) or even the McCombs program that is trying to help actually launch kids specifically into Wall Street. My school had one of the top accounting programs in the north eastern region and specifically geared students for the Big 4. We also had a PA program that did pretty well.
You have to know this about your own circumstances, whether your school offers a career path or not. But if you’re at a school where what you’re interested in isn’t offered, then it doesn’t matter about career paths unless you’re willing to change course.
Not going to do s&t??
Funny you ask. I don't have the pedigree or math skills to get an interview. Retail trading =\= insitotuonal trading but my personal account has grown a great amount especially after trading this volatility lately. Learned from a close knit group who do it for living a couple have made millions off the strat. This would be one of those things I would keep to myself and make the most money I can.
As an alumnus of the University of Pittsburgh, my options include janitorial duties, dish washing at the local Mexican restaurant, rummaging through dumpsters for aluminum cans, being paid to troll on WSO, and delivering Chinese food. These are all realistic options coming from an average nun tergit like Pitt.
You're a consultant you sure you went to Pitt?
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You can't be serious.
Dish washer is a 2nd year gig. They give those Pitt grads Assistant Dishwasher 1st year. Learn your place.
You're so right the truth is I can barely read or write that's why I fucked up that post.
Tell that to David Tepper
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Comp sci is nice, the math really kills me though. I feel like the new money is now in big tech (barrage of MS incoming).
Money's about the same vis-a-vis finance but with lower odds of breaking into the highest brackets yet better odds at a decent compensation if you stall out.
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He was probably at a top engineering school though. That would still be "target" for that industry.
CS has a very different "target" list to finance so bit of a misnomer to say "non-target" in the finance sense.
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Software Sales
Or really any non finance role at a tech/legitimate start up company. Pay pretty well, super nice offices, great perks and benefits.
Yep heard about SaaS as well. Apparently can make a lot of you're good at selling. I know u start as an SDR then move into AE. I don't know how they recruit .
PORNOGRAPHY
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ur mum thinks I'm funny
Corporate banking
Can't corporate bankers lateral into IB later on?
Supply chain management is getting more and more lucrative as a career due to an increased focus on lean operations and just in time management. Also might try a niche area of investment banking like public finance.
Public finance definitely has a higher % of non-target grads at the lower levels, but most of the higher up bankers I've encountered (VPs, MDs) went to target/semi-target UG or MBA programs.
Real estate finance and development. Nobody except for the few, huge top shops give a shit about where you went to school. it’s very meritocratic. If you can manage to work your way into a shop that compensates you with equity in their deals, you can become very wealthy. If you manage to meet the right people, or come from money, and have the balls, you can start your own shop and become even wealthier (given you know what you’re doing).
If you want to stay on the services side, I know senior corporate and community bankers who make 250-500/year and work 30 hours/week. I know brokers who are in their late 20s pulling 7 figures (those guys are rare but if you’re extremely outgoing and well connected, it’s very possible).
I came from a no-name school and work as an analyst in a regional bank’s corporate RE division. I’ve got good exit ops as it is into regional developers and small REPE shops. If I went back to school for a top MBA or MSRE, I would only expand my opportunities.
Just because you didn't go to a target doesn't mean you can't still get any job you want. Work harder than your peers and I promise you can do whatever you want.
Absolutely anything in sales.
There are hot girls in pharma sales who make more than me and have half the work experience.
Medical device sales has the potential for some solid earnings.
If you’re a at a major public university then there might be recruiting for FLDPs for large corporations which in the long term can end of with stable $3-400,000+ salaries. Big 4 accounting firms might be another option. For lower tier universities you can still work your way up in corporate finance, commercial banking, or tax advisory.
Honestly, a career is 40+ years long so you can end up doing anything if you have the drive for it. Even if you go to an awful school, five years of dedication can get you almost anywhere. It’s about staying in for the long haul.
This was exactly my answer.
I would add any name brand company that puts you into some type of training program (internal audit, FLDP, commercial banking rotations, etc) are probably solid because they will have promotion schedules built into the program (or when you place after the program). Should also be good if you decide to apply to bschool etc.
Had an interview at Moodys/SP/Fitch for a sales job.
70K Base. 50k expected commission payout.
NYC
Ratings analyst jobs at rating agencies are a good starting point if you want to eventually pivot to becoming a buy side or sell side credit analyst. I realize this is different from the position you interviewed for, but it's worth noting.
You go to a target?
Eh- being from a target school will make it easier but if you're in a major metropolitan area with social skills and the ability to hustle and build yourself a solid network, you can work your way into almost anything. Depends what the end goal is, Corporate Banking is one career path. I'd also argue that institutional client coverage/sales in a servicing business (i.e., prime brokerage) may be a good first step- gets exposure to buy-side while you develop skills. Junior level product specialist roles may also be a good spot.
Insurance
argh... Swab the deck matey
funny
sales at a mutual fund. aka 'wholesalers' at pimpco / american funds, etc. If you are slick and know how to bull shit, you can do well and clear very serious cash several years into your career.
Source: my best friend from my high school went non target, majored in history, and graduated with 2.7 gpa. He started out as a financial advisor at Edward Jones -> became a mutual fund wholesaler -> cleared 600k last year. He just turned 30 last month.
He is not the brightest guy there is, but he is articulate, knows how to play the game, and has learned the art of 'salesmanship' in his words - where he knows how to implicitly ask his clients to give him business (drop trades), without being too pushy or too nice. He tells me that the key thing with sales is that you treat your clients nicely yet never become too close to become friends. Have to strike the right balance between being too nice and being too aggressive. Knowing how to sell goes a long way.
It's a good gig. Know plenty of wholesalers (funds, annuities, Alts, etc.) . Pretty extensive travel required within the territory (depending on size). Definitely about building relationships and creating value for advisors. If you live by fund performance, you die by it as that's all commoditized. Most change companies every few yrs. Kind of a grind, but what isn't? 500k+ very doable.
Sales is a burnout for 99% of people. Making six figures is a pipe dream in that industry according to the people here
I go to a non-target in a major metropolitan area.
Cold email the fuck out of everyone and really get good at selling yourself. Don't come off as an idiot and show your drive. It'll suck, but it pays off.
I'm not in a metro area. I was thinking of transferring to school in an area as such but prob not worth it. Thanks for the advice!
I'm graduating from a Southern state school and have been able to break into Asset management. I'd say there are some pretty good career opportunities in this field. totally doable if you prepare well for interviews and build up your resume before applying. It matters more how you present yourself over where you go.
Corporate finance, asset management, and PWM all come to mind as I think of a few people I know who went into these industries from non-target state schools. Not all of their gigs are super-lucrative, but they're certainly not pinching pennies either.
Career advice needed - Graduated in May from a non-target (Originally Posted: 03/25/2010)
Hey everybody, long time lurker first time poster.
I graduated in May 08 from a non target state school with a degree in finance. GPA in the low 3's with no extra curricular's other than study abroad.
Upon graduation I got a job at a very small brokerage firm, dealing primarily with government incentive financing i.e. non taxable debt financing, tax credit equity financing. We work mostly with small companies and real estate developers, helping them raise capital through these kinds of programs. We have relationships with institutional investors and structure deals between the investor and the company in need of capital.
We are a very small firm raising about $25m in capital per year. Essentially, we provide the same service as an investment bank, but on a much smaller scale in a niche market.
There are only 2 people in the company, myself and the principal. I have a very broad range of responsibilities focusing on business/lead development, sales, marketing, and financial analysis/ modeling. Since we are a brokerage firm, 80% of my job is really sales: connecting large institutional investors (fortune 500) with small companies/ real estate developers.
My question is: Is it possible to use these skills to get a job in IB/ PE/ VC? I know that the deal sizes im working on are minuscule compared to even boutique investment banks, but I feel that the experience ive gained working very closely on these deals, as well as interacting with large institutional investors, could make me a good candidate. Should i only focus on boutique banks or MM and BB as well? Would i have a better shot applying for analyst positions or associate positions? Also my modeling skills are very basic, I make simple cash flow projections to show investors what IRR they can expect from their investment.
Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
could you get onto a reputable masters course? might be a better way in..
VC will be the easier of the three to crack
BB IB will be tough
PE will be near impossible.
But if you can get a reputable masters or a good MBA on the CV, totally different ball game.
I'd sasy get 2 years at the best IB job you can and learn as much as possible and kill yourself working to get thebest experience you can; then go to bschool and come out firing on all cylinders
goodluck
Non-Target Senior in need of Career Advice..any help appreciated!! (Originally Posted: 10/15/2012)
Im currently a senior at a non-target with a low GPA(3.3), Im a double major in accounting and finance and due to the fact that I thought I was going to pursue accounting I never did any relevant internships until this past summer when I did a BB PWM..ive been try to do a good bit of research on here on how to use my shitty background to break into IB/AM/ER(really anything FO outside of PWM) and now ive come to the conclusion its extremely difficult until i get some work experience and go back for an MBA..Ive been trying to use my PWM contacts to network but they seem to be pretty useless, i know whatever job i get will require lots of networking but do you think its possible for me to break in out of UG? Would an MSF be a good idea to give me more time for networking/internships? What would be a good entry level job for me to look into to try to leverage into a good FO role?
At least you realize the PWM is useless and has nothing to do with IBD (other than the name of the company). You probably won't be able to break in from ugrad. To get the highest probability of breaking in, you have two options: 1) MSF right out of school, and try to get a SA position each summer. 2) Go work as a financial analyst for big name company ~2-4 years, and then go to a top MBA. Where you would also try to get SA positions each each. Outside of those two paths, you're going to have a very hard time (because of your lack of a) school brand, b) experience, & c) low gpa).
Thanks! and yeah this was an answer I was pretty much expecting. Im realistic about my opportunities being limited, im just wondering if a legit MSF is even feasible with my GPA, i would like to say im a smart person and I know i can score around 700 on the GMAT(my GPA is due to lack of effort not intelligence) but I feel as if I cant get into a good MSF it will be useless if theres no OCR or good networking opportunities and i will just be wasting my time/money
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