How do you feel about having a relationship with a girl who has extremely high "body count"
Not fishing for controversy, would really love to hear your thoughts. It's an issue I discussed with a few friends lately and it turned ugly fast.
It's certainly normal for girls to have high casual/hookup partners partners now thanks to the internet. But goddamn it's staggering. I had a friend say that her body count is above 100, and she's just as old as me. I'm a late bloomer, lost it at 23 and really don't have a problem getting a girl every week if I want to (not going to, ofc). Idk how to dissect it if I was in a relationship with a girl who has an extremely high body count.
How would you handle it?
The higher the body count, the more likely a person has STDs. Be careful out there.
For a hookup / FWB, doesn't really matter except for purposes of STDs
For a real LT relationship, I'm not touching that with a stick. A girl who's been with dozens or hundreds of guys lacks real LT emotional commitment and in biz speak, her 'switching costs' are very, very low. Guys are horndogs and will go try to bone anything possible, but women have a far greater imperative to establish genuine emotional connection -- if she's been with 20+ guys, it's pretty clear that this function is essentially broken. It's well proven that beyond the single-digit body count range there's a much higher likelihood of breaking up later on. Which makes perfect sense.
Of course, this is age dependent too. Would I expect a 22 year old girl and a 40 year old one to have the same body count? Probably not. Honestly the fewer the better in either case, if it's above the single-digits in her 20s I'd be wary. If she's 30+, then I'd be more wondering why in the world she's single if she's really a quality girl. The highest quality girls almost always get scooped up early in their 20s, for a girl to not have a partner by 30+ likely means there are some serious red flags (not always the case but go in eyes wide open)
Based af. I'm all for having fun but it's emotionally / biologically very, very different for a high guy with a high body count vs. a girl. That said, probably fair to say a guy with a very high body count (50+) is probably also not likely to have super strong emotional connection either
Agreed
Once a hoe, always a hoe
Good call on the term 'switching costs'.
People can say double standard all they want but in reality it's very different for a man with a high body count and a woman with a high body count. The man has to make others say yes, the woman has to say no herself. If she has a (good lord) triple digit body count that means she doesnt say no when:
- out at party
- with coworkers
- at bars with friends
- after a first date
- with guy she just met
- etc. etc. etc.
If you are to automatically expect a 180 in behavior from her and now she is devout/loyal to you during all those situations where she couldnt help herself, then that's just a risk you will be taking.
Makes a load of sense on saying yes vs. making others say yes. I'd also add that if it's a girl who's nearing 30 / 30+, she's clearly recognizing that her prime years are rapidly in decline and waiting for a soyboy to pull the 'rescue a hoe' move. Which for a guy might initially seem like win-win but what do you think happens after the panic settles down, it's been a few years since you've married and she's getting bored? In the long-term, odds something like this works out are way, way lower
Your username is quite fitting. Misogynistic bafoon.
Actually the research shows a 4X increase in divorce rate between a body count of 1 and 0 let alone getting into a body count in the double digits. I 100% agree with your points but disagree that it takes double digits for that emotional connection state to disappear. Haven’t you heard girls talk fondly about their first kiss or first date? The strongest emotional connection a girl makes is with the first man she sleeps with, and after that it goes downhill extremely quickly.
Sure I think we can argue numbers themselves but directionally we both agree. And directionally, I'd feel way better being with a girl who's been with 5 guys vs. one who's been with 50, don't think you'd disagree with that
Also saw that study. Interesting to note that the same study noted the correlation between a man's body count and divorce rate was non-conclusive/non-existent
What red flags are you seeing in 30+ girls?
MASSIVELY based. Personally believe number should be as close to zero as possible (for the girl you want to marry). Think a distinction should be made whether it was a hookup or LTR as well. Personally don't want to be involved with girls who have one night stands.
MS on your post is either from girls or guys who fell into the "Im not who I was in my past" trap
LTR just means familiarity of the person who she has sex with which is a pretty weak standard. High-end escorts do the same thing.
Have a 40-yr old single coworker who honestly looks pretty good for her age. Also lots of red flags just based on her personality at work (i.e. not easy to get along with and cant handle differences of opinion like an adult).
Great points made here. For at least my age group (early 30s), I'd consider 20+ a red flag for at least dating. I'd say most people who are honest about it would say 10-15 (girls lie a lot and may just say 3).
Can think of one particular girl back from my hometown who developed a reputation of getting around. Back then a lot of us guys found her attractive but now a lot less. She also doesn't seemed to have changed at all. I'd imagine she has a 30+ body count fairly easy (I'd even guess 40-50, even know a few guys that had a one night stand/fling with her).
If she's been with 100+ guys, she should consider at least becoming a prostitute. No self-respecting guy would want to marry that
High body counts are more common in big cities like NYC. 100 is just 10 people per year for 10 years. That’s less than 1 per month.
Lol when you say this I picture the chick from Wolf of WSO who the entire firm ran train on. Some dude did eventually marry her....and committed suicide shortly after. Know it's fiction but this tells you all you need to know
There’s a movie called “Wolf of WSO”? lol nice
Never Happened.
All I'm hearing is, "she has experience and will do nasty things with you."
I'm down (predicated on no STD's though).
That's one way to look at it. Though I think girls (and guys) who settle down after years of promiscuity tend to let go of the wildness and become disciplined husks.
This is not based in any semblance of reality. Research proves otherwise. People don’t flip a light switch on and magically change.
I think the key here is to think deeply about what does having a high body count imply about a person (regardless of gender). For most of my life I have been a quite guy but there was one short period (roughly a year) of my life where I really fucking let go. I'm talking having casual sex regularly, having multiple FWB arrangements at the same time, sometimes even fucking a girl just to leave her place to pick up the next girl and fuck that other girl and then going back to my house feeling like some kind of sex hero. But the reality is that this period of my life was extremely stressful for me. It is already stressful to feel like people are judging you and it turns out that having sex with people who you know are not your friends and don't care about you is like being judged 24/7. Every interaction with a new girl was a new judgement on my capabilities as a person and as a man. If I got the woman to fall for me then I would get a quick rush of dopamine and then I'd take her to bed. Of course the sex was another dopamine shot but then immediately you are being judged again about pretty much everything. The next day she may call you again and you'll get a dopamine hit, or she'll never text you again and you'll feel like shit. You'll feel even worse if that particular girl was your 'type' and maybe someone you would have had for a serious relationship. You are going through partners really fast but really it is like speedrunning a breakup. I felt like I was having a breakup every single day and by the end of it I was exhausted and most likely scarred.
Given all these negatives of high body counts, why are people inclined to go through this shit? Well, I can't assume that my experience is similar to everyone else's but I'll explain what happened in my case. As mentioned above, I had always been the quite guy and as such my sexual relationships were limited to emotional relationships. I had gone through a particularly long-term one (reaaaally long term) but then she broke up with me. After she broke up with me I started feeling like I was useless and I would never get another girl to love me. So at first I started working on myself and this was positive but then I got to the point where I was actually attracting other girls. And then I guess to 'prove' to myself that I could get other girls to like me, I started trying to get EVERY girl to like me. So yeah, in my opinion high body counts come from a place of immaturity, trauma and stupidity.
Given that I've gone through this, now when I meet women I have a pretty good sense of if they are in this little rollercoaster or not. I don't think I'd care much about them having a high body count in the past, but it would definitely be a deal breaker if they were still increasing that body count. A woman who is still in that rollercoaster is still suffering from that same trauma which would make a relationship with her toxic at best. Beyond that, there are some tangible negatives. Do you know how many guys are in her DMs at any single moment? I remember being in dates with girls and suddenly getting texts from other girls wanting to fuck me, making the present girl extremely uncomfortable. I could not pull a serious girl for a serious relationship until I decided to block all of those girls for good because the reality is that if the easy fucks are present, you will never work hard for that more serious relationship. That is why if a woman is still having casual sex, I would not touch that with a ten foot pole. If she used to have casual sex and now doesn't then I would still take things with her REAAAAALLY slowly. This is so that I can judge if she already got over her trauma, or if she is still suffering from it (and therefore I would not touch with a ten foot pole). Taking things slowly is also helpful because you'll be able to see how she behaves as she is approached by other men before you actually commit to a relationship. If she appears to be to easy to talk to by any man who approaches her you better also run because she is still not over her trauma.
But if she has had the high body count, is now over her trauma, and is already behaving like a normal human being (I don't think having sex with strangers every night is 'natural') then she might actually be a good partner. If only because she has gone through the same shit and will now most likely be a really mature person for her age.
A girl who went through the great 'trauma' of willingly being reamed by 30+ guys is permanently changed mentally. She's always going to have that disposition to hoe around if something isn't going her way and desire for monogamous, deep connection is structurally decreased. Not worth it
Ah yes, the emotional horror of consenting to having 80 penises in inside you. Poor girl, how traumatizing it must have been to bone guys you meet within 1-2hrs of meeting them on the regular. Gimme a break
I think you both misunderstood my post. The sex is not the trauma (though sometimes it can lead to that too). I have some friends who went through this too and they tell me that the reason they started having casual sex was always after some big breakup, or the death of a loved one, or some failure in their life. Sex, like drugs, is easy pleasure. Nothing more, nothing less. There are always underlying reasons for why people turn to easy pleasures in excess.
But as I said in my post, if I know that a girl has gone through this then I would use my judgement to tell if she is worthy of a serious relationship or not. You may do the same, and your judgement may be that they are never worthy and if you are led to that conclusion by a rational train of thought then more power to you.
Not a based take at all. Either way though. Why would you want a woman with mental health/trauma issues anyhow? That doesn't just disappear after marriage. What happens if at 38 you guys have a big fight and she goes back to her coping mechanism by fucking 5 different guys? You try to divorce her for cheating but this country is Godless so it's a no-fault divorce and she's gonna get 50% of your assets and future income for (likely) life
Every single time a woman has sex with a guy which does not lead to marriage is emotional and mental damage that the next guy will have to deal with. No ifs ands or buts.
Subconsciously, even women believe the above to be true as referenced by (1) attempting to not seem "easy" or "slutty" and (2) downplaying or outright lying about how many sexual partners they have had
She won’t cheat if she values the relationship.
Body count of 100 lmao christ.
A key that works on every lock is a valuable key.
A lock that opens to any key is a worthless lock.
Some people simply belong to the streets.
100%. Why beta orbiters constantly make excuses for these women I will never understand
Yep, and what is funny is what leads women to sleep around and what leads guys to put up with it comes from same source - a low self esteem
I don't know any girls who think a very high body count on a guy is "valuable". Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too, bang randoms but also hate on girls who do it.
Says the guy who ordered a virgin Russian mail order bride lol
Makes me believe that it's a biological impulse. Women don't give a shit about sexual past, but men clearly do.
Didn't make the biological rules buddy, just dont ignore them. Despite what your chick friends tell you, they are into guys that have been around or can get around.
Also why the inverse is true. A guy that is a virgin is very low value, while for a woman it really doesnt matter and is in many cases better.
Holy shit god tier analogy here. 100% agree
lol
The entire thing is pretty subjective, but for a younger person 100s is obviously a bit worrying.
I personally subscribe to a sliding scale, with 16 being the assumed age of starting sex (earlier would be worrying), I am comfortable with 2 average partners per year. This is generous because the caveat I always would like to see is was there at least a 3 year period where you had a stable relationship, but also allows for a period where someone may have gone off the rails a bit (a fuck year in spain) because the average smooths it out. I would prefer my partner to have at least 2-3 past partners just as a minimum base.
This is an unpopular opinion on this forum, alot of people will accuse me of only going after the town pump. I do, however, have what I feel are pretty decent reasons:
I know this is controversial but I wouldn’t consider a girl with a body count > 0. That included all types of sex or sexual interactions. Some people brag about being virgins because they didn’t make raw contact which is absolute nonsense. Any sort of sexual interaction, regardless of the body parts involved is a no go for me - even lip to lip kissing is too far (have close friends who have gotten mono).
Based on the comments above almost everyone seems to know that increased body count is a poor attribute so why simp and try engaging in every mental gymnastic possible to justify girls with any body count. One guy above tried to make some mathematical formulas with varying assumptions as if that is going to change the fact that a virgin is a virgin and a no -virgin is a non-virgin. I usually don’t like to speak in binary terms, but this is one case that Is binary if we’re limiting it to consensual sex.
In this thread [Drumpfy] appears to be the toughest man because he actually held the line even if it meant importing a girl from halfway across the globe. Now I wish he’d stop pretending to act like he supports feminism but that’s a discussion for a different thread.
Unless you stick to certain cultures / religions, hard to find a virgin. It's possible, but not probable. Not saying you should ditch this, do what you feel comfortable with
My rule of thumb is not more than 3 (as a guy in his 20s), though I could bend that if I had to with a max of 5. Anything more than that and it's pretty much a no-go
Nothing wrong with a girl having a low or no body count, but you are going to limit your universe to very few women. Even if you can find women with a zero body count, you are going to eliminate lots of females with other very appealing characteristics. What if some girl has every other characteristic you think is important but she slept with one guy?
Exclusive physical intimacy is one of the top components of marriage (why do people get mad when their spouses sleep with someone else)? Everything else is secondary and comes after the above.
I'll agree that this is hugely based but at the same time kinda unrealistic. Just not a lot of girls out there who have had no sexual contact in their 20s. Feel bad for our fellow soldiers who end up married to a girl in her late 20s/early 30s who has been pumped and dumped 8 times before him. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy
Islam and Orthodox Christianity/Catholic groups have this shit figured out. Unfortunately the women you want from here don't want you unless you yourself are Islamist/Catholic/Christian.
Agree on Drumpfy, the guy knows whats what. Wish he would stop LARPING as a feminist
Fantastic shitpost, first sentence caught me off guard and had me spit out my coffee. Last paragraph with the backhand to drumpfy solidified the SB
I appreciate that you enjoyed the post, but believe it or not I am 100% serious.
Man, this place is turning into a spin-off of 4chan.
How is not wanting your future wife to have been with 100+ guys a 4chan thing? That's just common sense lol
I was more referring to the guy who said he wouldn't consider a girl who's been with >0 guys.
Yeah shit man, I'm a pretty chill person about most things but if some girl came up to me and said her body count was in the 80-100 range by the age of 25 I would just be dumbstruck. Like I can get over 5-10 no problem (sex positivity and shit). But I've literally told female friends to avoid my buddies who have slept with 20+ women per year unless they are just looking for a hook up. Those guys are great friends but I know they have serious issues percieving women as people instead of a 'game' to win.
How would you ever know a girl's true body count?
Yup. Imagine marrying a girl who said she has a body count of 3 but she never included the 5 one night stands she's had 💀
See the below, this'll help
Funny enough, reminds me of equity research -- you don't always have perfect information but you're looking for clues that will paint a full picture (look up mosaic theory if interested. Not an exhaustive list below btw, here hare are some red flags:
1. Has daddy issues (absent father) -- only way she gets fulfillment is from smashing random dudes to make up for the attention her father never gave her
2. Heavy partier / drinker -- if she's out and about every weekend at bars / clubs, good chance that's a 1x a week hookup
3. Is "one of the guys" / has lots of male friends -- she'll never actually be one of the guys but she wins this reputation by sleeping with a lot of dudes, all her guy 'friends' are those hoping to sleep with her
4. Smokes weed on the reg -- low quality, nuff said
5. Travel frequently (non-work), esp alone -- I solo traveled across Europe is code for "I f*cked my way across Europe
6. Has cheated before -- you can find this out from friends / friends of friends often times, sometimes not feasible to know
7. Slutty friends -- quote that you are the sum of the 6 people you spent the most time with rings true. If she's got slutty friends but says she herself has a low body count / acts like a good girl, gtfo. All of us are prone to emulating behaviors from our friends & we seek like-minded individuals -- this is one of the easiest red flags to identify because you will meet her friends
Great framework
Great list. Spot on too. Always look to someones friends as an indicator of who they are, who they strive to be, and the behavior that they will be pressured into. It's hard to look at your own woman objectively but you should be able to look at her friends. They are all drunk trashy messes? Well got news for you so is she.
Also love #5 as someone who traveled solo as well. Know this type of woman. She doesnt like to be in a relationship so she can have freedom to 'find herself' aka find herself at 3am in some hostel in Barcelona. There is no rule saying you cant backpack across Europe with a boyfriend. But of course, that doesnt allow for as many crazy nights out crazy stories, and exotic hookups, etc. willing to give this a bit of a pass but it's a red flag.
I would add to the list
#8. Exotic piercings or tattoos, especially multiple. People get upset at this one but a girl with tattoos/piercings is a red flag as well. Shows less impulse control, and tbh - bad taste
This post encapsulates why equity research recommendations aren’t better than a coin toss.
What’s her #?
If a 9.5 girl walks into a bar and starts hitting on you - 95% of the guys on this thread would probably bang her without even asking about body count.
And that’s how some relationships start. After the fact would you dump her if she said she had a really high body count?
Yeah I would. She is short term fun but never putting a ring on it
95%? Probably 99% my guy
And I usually ask for body count within the first month anyway. Even if she lies, I just look out for the red flags I pointed out (see my other post you commented on) and if multiple of those are lighting up then there you go.
Agreed if you boned this girl and then dated her for a year then you're not going to dump her on this reason alone -- too much of a sunk cost. That's why you keep your eyes peeled very earlier (first month or two) and can make a call then. Clean, easy break for both of you
Doesn’t that seem too quick to get a serious response? How many people would you reveal your true body count to that you’ve met two weeks ago?
Lmao you’d need to go to Utah to find women with 0 body count. Otherwise you’re just a pedo.
Realistically, I draw the line at 3. Two boyfriends and a hookup. Ideally, it’s 1 or 2 with both being boyfriends but with how much slut behavior is being normalized these days, I’d bet most women have had a hookup before.
I got lucky and my girl only slept with 1 guy (high school boyfriend), but all the other girls I was considering all had much higher body counts. Insane how normalized these hoes try to make it. They’ll realize how low their stock is once they hit 30 and are still single.
Nah most girls in Utah aren’t virgins haha.
To hook up? Have fun. To have any sort of relationship with? You're going to get cheated on. You don't put a ring on that finger unless you want to lose half your shit.
Amazing how many guys completely ignore this and can't think LT whatsoever. Having an encounter? Yeah sure. But if you're putting a ring on this, you really can't take one moment and think about what life is going to look like in 10yrs? Like you said, this usually ends in cheating or divorce or both
Reminds me of the market in some ways, most people are so short-term such that while it seems 'obvious' that being LT is a differentiator the market has still not adjusted to this at all. Think about more than just the next lay unless you want to end up destroyed emotionally in a decade
Rule of thumb is real count is triple the # a girl tells you.
What a beta thing to worry about a chick's body count. Honestly whatever happened before you is her business and has nothing to do with you if it doesn't affect your present together.
I promise you it doesn't matter in the long run.
I’d argue that not caring that your wife sucked and fucked 100 dudes before you is the true beta move, but to each their own lol
Caring about what others think of you is beta. Also counterpoint, if that did happen do you think you will honestly get an honest answer if she knows it will bother you?
And also if she did have 100+ guys you would be the recipient of all that knowledge in the bedroom. They say you can't turn a hoe into a housewife but hoes get married every day, b.
Champagne Simping is exactly the type of guy who walks in on his wife getting run train on 5yrs into the marriage and pretends he doesn't care -- "we have a different kind of relationship I swear"
What. A. BITCH!
Honestly let the man walk in on his wife getting spit roasted, no skin off our backs. To each their own
Didn’t realize Will Smith was on WSO
relationship = banging -> yeah sure
relationship = marriage and kids -> hell nah
I find it funny how many people post on WSO for relationship advice. Lol talk to your friends you are never going to get a reasonable answer on an online forum flooded by college aged kids
I would completely discount the possibility of having any meaningful long term relationship with a girl with a high body count. Even an average girl can sleep with almost any dude that she chooses to and if a girl has had too many sexual partners in the past, for me personally its a huge red flag and indicates a lack of ability to have any kind of restraint or a focus on developing any longer term relationships. Please go ahead and have fun if you would like to with such a girl, but never put a ring on that finger.
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