Indian/Asian Americans new generation - is everyone succesful?
For context, Im in the US, 22y/o, have been a BA at Mck for a year now.
I grew up middle class, went to a decent public school, my dad is a SWE at an average company and my mom never worked, and both are Indian immigrants.
Now, when I look at JUST my family friends/blood relatives (just focusing on those who are Indian Americans and in my age range, and not counting my high school or college friends), there's literally 7 people working at Mckinsey, 6 working in Goldman IB and a handful of others in other top EB/BB, over 30 people I know in med school/dental school (including a handful in top 10 med schools), 15 or so people in top law schools going to work in corporate law, and over 30 people in tech, about half of those who work in FAANG/top quant firms and the rest at other great tier 2 companies, and there are also about 6 in top PhD programs (1 at H, 1 at S, 4 at ivies). If I include my college and high school friends, it's far more. Literally every Indian American "kid" I know is successful. I can't even think of one exception. Even the indian kids I knew who were "average" in high school are all making 6 figures straight from undergrad in one of the aforementioned careers. How is this possible? Is this normal, do other Indian or Asian Americans have this experience as well or is this an outlier?
Literally just in my hometown middle class neighborhood where I grew up, there are 8 people who went to an Ivy. Out of my relatives (cousins, etc), every single one went to a T20, with many who went to T10s. In our group, no one even cares if you went to a T10 because it's "expected"/not out of the ordinary. If you don't work at a top company/top school, etc (MBB, FAANG, GS/JP, etc) the Indian people will judge you and look at you funny, but if you do work at a top company/go to a top school none of them care because it's expected, How is this possible?
Yes. Vast majority of Indian/Asian families I know put a premium on education. The ones that dont are also coincidentally more whitewashed. From personal experience my Dad was far more demanding and harsh than any psycho MDs I worked for.
Exactly! These psycho VPs, MDs had nothing on my Indian mother growing up - I was so used to constantly being told I’m a disappointment for the smallest of misses (eg no period on footnote in page 76) and to strive harder that it wasn’t tough to power through the IB culture and work environment.
Hopefully that now you're a director you're not perpetuating that culture that your mom enforced on you haha
Huge emphasis on education. My folks are working-class Bangladeshi immigrants in New York City, so I come from a 'less-pedigreed' background, but they never spared an expense on test prep / tutoring starting from SHSAT examinations in middle school. There's a joke where Bengali parents view getting into Stuy as more of an accomplishment than getting into Harvard LOL. Obviously there are some deadbeat cousins given the economic background, but a lot of us are getting into V100s / BBs / med school / etc. Not too shabby for the child of a bus driver.
To be fair, Stuy is like the Harvard of public / prep high schools in NYC. Very difficult to get into when I was in high school (late 2000s - early 2010s).
I remember when I was in HS (2006-2010), the valedictorian of the year ahead of me went to Harvard and took me with him to the Harvard NYC admitted students event at the Harvard Club. During the presentation, the presenter said how of the 150 kids in NYC that got accepted to Harvard that year, 37 of them were from Stuyvesant.
Legit if I have kids and can afford to stay in NYC, getting them into Stuy is the dream.
I don't have any personal experience with Stuy, but from what I've heard from alums and other people familiar with the school is that it is a very sweaty and unpleasant environment to be in. Back when I was in college I used to date a girl who graduated from Hunter (another very selective / hard to get into exam school in NYC, though not part of the specialized public schools like Stuy, Bronx Science, etc.) and from her description, Hunter seems much more pleasant than Stuy (though still an intense place to be at). Anecdotally, every person I've met who went to Stuy has some form of mental illness or mental health issues (both formally diagnosed and undiagnosed / in denial)
I suppose if you are a poor working class / lower-middle class immigrant striver, you should go for specialized public high schools like Stuy... but if you are 2nd generation-plus and are financially comfortable, why would you ever subject your kids to that? To build character?
Personally, I would send them to Trinity, Horace Mann, Dalton, etc. or any of the many fine boarding schools in the Northeast (Andover/Exeter et al)
xxxx
another bengali here --- can i Pm you?
Bx Sci alum here, I was extremely surprised to see how Bengali parents really emphasized getting into specialized high schools but a lot of my peers ended up going to sunys and cunys despite being easily able to get into t50 colleges. Seemed as if the choice of high school was seen as more important than college but idk. Ik cost might be factor but a lot of good schools give tons of money to working class households.
alot of bengali parents don't feel comfortable sending their kids away for college. As a bengali, my only two good options were Cornell, nyu, and Columbia because they watned me to commute from home. That was the case for so many bengali kids at bxsci which is why many of them missed on applying to so many other good schools in the country.
Can you pm me I also went to an SHSAT school.
I think it’s because the Indian immigrants who came to America in the eighties were very intelligent and motivated to leave India.
Therefore, their kids are likely to be smart and motivated.
If you look at all the losers who stayed in India in the eighties, you’d see more losers.
We finally know the rich-girl marrying Smoke Frog's ethnicity.
must be it bro
2nd-gen Indian-American here. You have to remember that the Indians who get to America are filtered heavily by the immigration system, so it's not surprising that we end up very successful; our ancestors had to be at the top of their game to get here, and that spirit of hard work holds through generations (unless you end up becoming "old money," which no Asian immigrants are at yet).
True, I think it's two ways:
1. It is somewhat of a filter to come to the US from another country. You have to figure out to get here, and want to be here. If we had it reverse and Americans had to go to another country for a better life, that other country would probably get the same level of hard working Americans; i.e., I don't think the people "faking" (not people actually injured or with a problem) to get disability in the US would be going.
2. People who come here, they may come from areas where there isnt much opportunity, so they work hard because they have that opportunity. So 2nd generation kids might not see it, but theres a push.
Indian immigrants have been very successful historically but recently its definitely the opposite in my experience. Lots of very low-quality immigrants made their way across esp over the last 10 years either by overstaying their visa, crossing illegally through Mexico, or H1B fraud. 3rd generation Indian-Americans are also a LOT less driven then their parents and usually end doing menial jobs in service / ops / education. I suppose a regression to the mean at some point was inevitable but the stereotype of crazy rich Indians is definitely not as true as it was 10-20 years ago.
Not Indian but had a friend exposed me to this. Amount of fraudulent "consulting" firms in states like NJ and TX are insane.
I know quite a few of my Indian friends (who are currently in prestigious jobs like MBB / IB / HF, etc.) started out with some degree of immigration fraud (had fake job offers to save work permit, the fake paid H1B filers from multiple firms, etc.) after graduation.
Yea, my post was about the children of Indian immigrants who came in the 80s. Im sure its different now
Not Indian (am east Asian) but grew up in the bay with lots of Indian friends. Both Indian and other Asian immigrant parents are super hard on their kids education-wise so it’s a no brainer why they end up in high paying jobs.
Everyone is a hyperbole, but the 'success rate' among those who came pre-2020 let's call it is >90%. Example of good culture and what it can do. Of course, after living in America for multiple generations this could be getting degraded. Lib brain rot is hard to avoid
I didn't ask you to describe yourself, but you do you lol.
Did you read my post or even the title? My post is clearly about Indians in my generation (21-25 y/o) who were born in the US. Making six figures (and some are in the 200k-300k range, with a handful of quants making 400k-500k at 23) as a 21-25 year old is in the top 0.01% income of that age range, so yes, that is obviously successful. And it is extremely rare for a 21-25 y/o to be a billionaire. In addition, every single Indian I've met in the age range of 21-25 knows how to swim, how to ski (literally every Indian I know can ski black diamonds), play instruments, sing, play multiple sports at high levels (even recruited athletes), has several hobbies, goes biking/adventorous sports, goes out/has fun/parties and is multifaceted.
You're clearly talking about the older generation.
So I think we have different barometers of intelligence or success. You're going by salary classes.
I'm talking about whether Indians are true geniuses or learned professionals.
What I'm saying is there is a class of Indians who will hustle hard for dollars. That hustler culture is what prompts people in your peer group to succeed.
That is a very narrow definition of success or intelligence. But it's your thread and you defined it in your context so have at it.
Insane you think even 4-500k is top .01% income of that age range. Nobody working for someone else will ever be 1 in 10,000 in terms of income before 30.
Your points are valid, but what OP is saying is also correct, the new generation (20-30 y/o's) are already much better than their immigrant parents and it will take another 5-10 years to see whether they can be better than people like Pichai who are just followers not creators.
There’s different types of Indians. It’s a very complex nation with different ethnic groups tribes.
you must be from the diaspora which emphasizes high tier job success. I guess you are South Indian.
i doubt any of your peers you’re judging against are from Punjab or are Sikh.
in Cali where I live all I see is Sikh truck drivers and Sikhs Indians doing small businesses.
this is true for many 2nd gen or settled in the America’s types too .
i bet you’re a Tamil or a maharastris something or gujarati
Are you indian/south asian? If not then this so so funny watching someone from another culture stereotype, not that you are entirely wrong
Of course. Why would a Kevin or a Ryan care a hoot about a bunch of jeets and their petty internal tribal rivalries or which jeet is more successful than another jeet.
Yes, I'm gujurati and ever Indian I know is either south Indian or gujurati. Don't know any sikhs or punjabs
Yeah so Indian is a vague term buddy.
India has 8-9 different ethnic groups which I don't have to tell you about. It is a country of 8-9 cultures.
Your observation and point is "Why are Gujaratis and South Indians successful in USA". - it's because industry/trade in India centers around these areas.
The Punjabi community has had way less success in the USA because they are less into trade and come from a farmer state back in the old land. And that is true in USA as well.
You will see the millionaire Punjabi truck business owner (Famous for) but not the millionaire Tech Punjabi CEO. You can leave that for the South guy.
Interesting. Most of the successful Indians I know are neither of those.
Very mixed bag. Success is more than career and immigrant parents especially those who were brokies growing up really push the monetary aspect of life hard on their kids since they never had it and moved to this country to give their kids that opportunity. As such, the comment made by OP that his circle is a bunch of hardo cucks at McK type places makes sense (I was once a hardo cuck too from similar background as OP).
Redefinition of success hits as you spend a few years in workforce, see you on the other side of 30 brah
Indians and Chinese are template stars - they find prestigious careers that the Anglosphere B-Schools tout/harp/value and due to their immense social pressure peer pressure rat race dynamics think that getting into it is some Biblical Achievement.
The context of success is different for different ethnic groups. For some Black or Mexican kid getting into Rice or Texas A&M on a football scholarship makes the kid "the shit".
It's really weird I even have to say this. A lot of white families or black or Mexican families wouldn't use MBB as a baseline for their kid's success.
But I stand by my word for the corny-Indian-wanna-please-Indian-parents template kid. Just look at the Spelling Bee. Literally nobody in the Anglosphere cares for spelling Hindi words or whatever. So why are Indians so obsessed with sending their kids to English Spelling Bee contests ? You'll never see a Turkish, Armenian, Arab kid. It's always the same faces.
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To my point, one of my friends comes from a family of lawyers. So they can say Indians ? I've barely seen em in law school - bunch of computer dorks. So he will not see things through your world view as to validate things.
Yes, I agree with that, that is true. Sometimes I wish I grew up white so I could have enjoyed my childhood, and not have bad mental health, as well as work a normal job that doesn't require 60-80 hours plus stress. But oh well, it is what it is.
That's right, you will never see a Turkish or Armenian kid at a spelling bee, but you also do not see them earning more money than Indian-Americans on average as they are the highest earning ethnicity group after all in the US. Their average household incomes are more than twice the nationwide average, so they must be doing something right, whether it's spelling bee, STEM or owning a business. And it's laughable that you bring up law, did you graduate from a top law school? If you did, you would know that Indian-Americans are over represented in law, in fact they are so over represented that they do not get affirmative action benefits that black or hispanic students get in law school. It's pretty interesting that you did not bring up physicians, why? does that not help your case? Indian Americans are over represented there as well. Look, have whatever metric for success you want or do whatever mental gymnastics you have to do to convince yourself, end of the day regardless of whatever ethnicity you are, I think you can agree that having a high quality of life means you are comfortable, secure, live in a safe place, have a safety net, do not have to worry about putting food on the table, retirement, etc. And I would say Indian Americans are doing pretty well for themselves if you value a high quality of life.
Fatcs. Indian Americans may have many issues to work on (pressure, stress, cultural norms, perfectionism) but financial security is not one of them.
Sure but my point was there is some black guy making the same point as you about his African-American community and how basketball scholarships, NCAA, football scholarships were the road to millions. And there's some African-American version of Incomingconsultantmbb going "Wow we're so rich. Look at basketball and rap hip-hop Kanye, Jay-Z, We're black jesusus baby". How come Indians didn't have a tie-up with Addidas.
Where are the Indian American millionaire music stars ? Athlete millionaires ?
You are also the proof and point as to why India fares so poorly in Olympics. It's a unidimensional society that grooms kids for little beyond cricket or IIT/Medicine/Scholastic obsession.
You are entitled to your own opinion so I don't want to spoil the OP's thread but I'm really not fazed by Indian-Americans. If anything I think they just fear-the-future and many have EAT-THE-FROG-MAKE-THE-DOLLAR mentality due to immense societal pressure from parents.
Bro u seem super upset lmfao
Im telling you material facts.
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I can't believe no one mentioned Priya Rai in this discussion of successful Indians.
In fairness, every Deliveroo driver on a bicycle here in London is an Indian dude. I do love Indian all the Indian women we have here :-)
Not to belabor the point, but it’s important to remember that the vast majority of Indians in the U.S. are either immigrants or descendants of recent immigrants. Each year, approximately 100,000 to 200,000 Indians immigrate to the U.S., contributing to a total Indian-American population of around 5 million today. Due to the strict immigration standards, these individuals tend to represent the top tier of Indian society in terms of traits that drive success, such as education, ambition, and/or financial resources. In fact, I’d argue they likely come from the top 1-2% of Indian society (at most 200k arrive in the US each year from a pool of 1.4 billion). There are exceptions but America is not letting in average Indians by and large.
As such, the proper benchmark for Indian Americans isn't the average white, black, or hispanic american, whose statistics mostly reflect native populations without the same positive selection bias seen in many Asian immigrant groups. A more fitting comparison would be to the top 5% (or better) of white, black, or hispanic americans, since Indian immigrants are drawn from the elite of their society. Comparing Indian immigrant outcomes, which reflect the top 5% or better (probably 1-2%) outcomes of a group of 1.4 billion people to the top of other racial groups, rather than to the median of native populations, would likely yield similar, if not higher, success rates.
Given the current state of India (still very poor), it’s probably true that Indian American success isn’t a reflection of inherent cultural or genetic superiority for Indians broadly, but rather a consequence of selective immigration policies.
True, but even India (not Indian Americans) has a culture hyper-focused on education, similar to places like Japan, Korea, and China, and this hyperfocused academic and prestige focused culture is not shared by most other races.
Also I don't believe that all the "top" people in India choose to immigrate. There are plenty of millionaires and billionaires in India ( and tons of middle class people) who are very smart and successful and could easily immigrate if they wanted to, but they don't. I personally have many relatives in India who are well off and educated and could easily immigrate but they prefer life in India to the U.S, and they certainly would be in the top 1% of Indians worldwide.
Went to a T14 law school and there were like 10 Indian kids a year. Either my school was an anomaly, which is possible as I don’t know the more finely grained demographics of the other schools, or your immediate friend and family circle contains an unusually high proportion of the Indian kids going to top law schools.
This is similar to the McKinsey representation you mention. Given overall rough hiring # estimates, knowing 6+ of them beforehand hints at an extreme level of self-selection of the people you know.
Like Indians have been very successful in the United States, but of the numbers I know, even within that pool, your group of family/friends/acquaintances is incredibly stacked in a way that cannot be generalized, even to an already selected group of immigrants.
I don't think I have a higher proportion of Mck/top law school, etc types in my Indian circle because I asked Indian friends from my college (who grew up in different states across the country) and they all said the same thing about their Indian circles. But idk, that's obviously still just my anecdotal experience, and I went to a T10 so it could certainly be self selection. Every Indian I know in law school went to a T5 (think yale, carey, etc), but law is definitely a much less popular career for Indians compared to tech/medicine and IB/consulting.
Indians who go to T10 schools being from disproportionately successful families is not a shock. There may also be an additional selection effect coming from the fact that the people you became friends with at these T10s may have more similar backgrounds to you than the already high baseline you’d find in that sort of environment.
I can think of a couple clusters I know of like yours, but I’m betting you and/or a bunch of your friends are from a wealthier suburbs of a major northeastern cities as that’s where these tend to be.(or the bay but that would likely index more into tech)
Again though. There are a few million Indian people in the US and roughly a couple hundred thousand in college. For these jobs you’re talking about, if you add the incoming front office professionals at the BBs, MBB, and V10 law firms, there are certainly less than 15k of these jobs created each year.( and this is using generous estimates based on known info from the Covid boom in hiring).A small fraction, though far greater than population representation, are Indian. Even if all of them were Indian, it would be impossible for the majority of groups to be like yours.
There is some special sauce there, largely selective migration and focus on education, but you can’t generalize your experience as broadly as you might think.
Edit for duplicate comment:
thought my previous one didn’t post properly and retyped something similar.
I think it's partially due to the self-selection of Indian/Asian immigrants who came to the US in the first place. These were some of the most ambitious, intelligent, and hard working individuals from the Asian continent (who had to pass through a strenuous US immigration process, corporate hiring and/or university application processes). It would follow that their children would also be very well raised and driven to excel. This effect eventually dilutes and is why you sometimes see second/third-generation asian families not match the values (premium on education) of previous gens.
Also, your baseline is really really bad.
The Indians who make it to USA tend to have much higher human development and come from high-caste or high-tier tribes of India. And since the only way you can get in is through skilled immigration visa (H1B, OPT, F1) - you naturally have a waterfall of very assiduous diligent academic orientation.
60% of India is low developed low-caste. If you brought them to America with no F1, OPT, H1B visa criteria I'm sure there will be 1000s of average Rahuls, Rishis, Jitenders , Singhs who go to
community colleges, tier 3 universities and have very ordinary or modest careers.
This is nothing but survivorshop, selection, and confirmation bias.
I agree completely - not sure why the MS.
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