While I know poker is used as a training tool and may be looked upon favorable in the S&T space, would it be an acceptable interest when applying to banking. I played a lot during HS/college and would like to list it as an interest but do not want to come off as having some sort of gambling problem or a WSOP wannabee.
Should I be safe and not list it?
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nope..not very classy
put whaling in Nantucket instead.
^ I already put that along with my collection of boat shoes, and rethreading my lacrosse stick
Definitely don't - a guy I used to work with put that on his res and never heard the end of it (got the job though). Leave it off.
I put it on. I also used to play somewhat seriously and was able to talk about managing a bankroll, ect. As long as you know what your talking about when it comes to cards, you should be fine.
Definitely put it on. It's about calculating probabilities on the fly and managing risk/reward. While these are more important to investors, keep in mind that you are trying to market a company to investors so it's pseudo related.
Put it on. Its interesting, lots of wallstreet types like it.
Only if you can point to an achievement such as an official tournament placing. Putting "Texas Hold'em" on a resume makes me think an applicant is a tool - you should be listing interests like skiing, running, electric guitar, golf, etc. (e.g. relatively harmless things that let interviewers/screeners know you're a regular person with constructive athletic/social interests).
To be clear: I love playing poker. I play with friends, I play online and I have played in casinos. But I would not put it on my resume unless I was applying for something gaming related.
I agree with alexpasch's assesment about the games mathematical aspects, but what kind of message does it send when you say that your interest in playing poker is notable enough about you to warrant placing on a resume?
who isn't a WSOP wannabe? I put it on my resume back in the day.
I say yes on poker. A lot of Wall Street guys, traders especially, are into poker. alexpasch is right about it being a game of calculating probabilities on the fly, looking into risk reward, managing a bankroll. If taken seriously, I think poker is an intellectual exercise rather than just a game.
I would only put it on if you're a serious poker player. If you play occasionally with your buddies to pass time (like myself) leave it off. Also include other interests, especially ones that may make you stand out (ie, golf, tennis, torturing small animals).
I used to have it on there once and got asked about it in an interview. The interviewer seemed to be interested, then asked if I played online as well. When I said yes, he proceeded to ask "wait, isn't that illegal?" Didn't get the offer.
God what a tool. I would have said, "Wait, aren't you a colossal tool?" Then I would have taken the change out of my pocket, thrown it down on the table, and said, "Go take the express to Whogivesashitsville. I'm out." Then I would sweep all the papers off his desk, SWOOSH!, thrown my chair against the wall and nonchalantly sauntered out of his office whistling a show tune.
Cause that's how I fucking roll.
Gotta go with the "In fact playing poker online is not illegal however transferring funds offshore can be deemed as against some state laws. Because of this, I mainly register in satellite tournaments which will in turn qualify me for real, live events and assure myself that I do not get caught in the "illegal" part of online gaming"
I just had the idea to sell T-shirts that say, "Charlie Sheen is my Wing Man". I think it would be awesome.
haha, I know this website is already selling them.
http://boston.barstoolsports.com/
And I guess to my main post, seems like some are for and some are against, and wouldnt want to jeapordize my chances if some end up being against
Have you never heard of correlation not implying causation? Just because someone put poker on his resume and didn't get an invitation, does NOT AT ALL mean that this was the reason. And the fact that someone didn't get an offer in an interview they talked about poker does not all mean that this particular conversation caused the ding. In fact, in both cases the stakes were, mathematically speaking, against the applicant. Not going to an Ivy League causes a ding, not having relevant internship experience does as well. Noone gives a fucking shit about your hobbies as long as you can talk about them and come along as a normal person.
What would be cool, albeit risky, would be to put something on your resume like: - online poker, $80,000 gained (I know a lot of people who make that much)
Talking about Poker/Betting skills during interview? (Originally Posted: 01/30/2007)
During a summer internship interview, would this be frowned upon?
Until last year all of my income was from various gambling activities and this obviously consisted of extensive number crunching, expected value calculations etc. I did lots of research, did arbitrage betting and read lots of books on how to calculate odds. I'm not doing it anymore and I never was the typical addicted gambler, I just took advantage of what I felt had a positive expected value.
I was asked about my analytical skills before, but I didn't really wanna talk about skills I got from gambling. What do other people think about this?
If you are interviewing for trading I would put down tournament wins and big money finishes if you have any. If not add poker and game theory to your interests/hobbies and you will probably be asked a question about them. Don't think it would help much for banking.
Makes sense, I'll do that. I was just thinking to use it as a backup when talking about analytical skills.
i play poker, and when i interview someone with poker on their resume i'll give them a quick quiz and ask them to calculate how many outs they have in certain situations, nothing crazy, but it exposes people that are full of shit.
That's the kind of question I'd expect actually, pot odds, outs etc. Maybe you'll interview me some time :)
Ibanking and professional poker? (Originally Posted: 05/01/2007)
This was inspired by the recent 60m thread. I have a few questions about poker, related to Ibanking. Is it true that many poker skills are transferrable to ibanking, especially S&T? If so, do these skills significantly improve one's performance as an ibanker? Finally, I was wondering if recruiters look positively upon poker experience during interviews, or will just dismiss it as reckless gambling. Anyone with experience in both poker and ibanking, I would love to hear your opinion on this.
Poker is relevant to trading but not so much to IBanking (corpfin).
Good to see that you've opened this thread separately.
Yeah S&T and I-banking are two different fields.
Sorry for the confusion, I am talking more about S&T than corporate finance. Alhough if anyone has experience with poker and ibanking, that would be great also.
I'm also curious about whether it gets discounted as gambling or not. My school has urged me not to put it on my resume, saying that it's basically a "gamble" to do so.
I've spent a lot of time w/ poker, including my fresh/soph summers. I'm leaning towards putting it on the resume, but I'm a little worried. These banks make a huge portion of their money on trading, which is basically skillful gambling as well, but I'm not sure if they'll see it like that.
is there seriously a link here? I mean, maybe for equities trading, but I doubt there is for anything more complex - maybe a trader can fill me in.
If I see it on a resume, you better know probabilities cold.
Assuming we are talking about Hold 'em, if give you a hand and community cards, you better be able to tell me, quickly, of what the odds of you making your hand are.
That being said, only put it on there if its substantial. If you win regularly and know the probabilities, it PROBABLY wouldn't hurt in a trading capacity. I wouldn't put it on for M&A type work.
And ratul, its even more applicable in slightly more quant roles, in that it shows you can work through some math quickly in your head. (i'm not talking about true quant roles here, such stuff that is slightly more quant than vanilla equities).
I think it is a gamble to add poker to your resume in most jobs. In trading I think it is more appropriate to add it to the resume. I have heard of some hedge funds that even have company poker games.
The main problem is that most people think that poker is like any form of gambling. You need to explain how poker is a game of skill. You also need to focus on use of math/statistics/probability, ability to make important decisions for large amounts of money in a short amount of time, ability to manage bankroll effectively, being able to withstand downswings, and controlling emotions.
I am currently in college, so I am not in the industry. However, I have played poker online semi-pro for a while. If you go to the twoplustwo.com forums, this question comes up frequently. You could do a search on the forums. That is what I am basing my response on.
to be honest, hold em poker doesn't seem to need the mathematical dexterity of trading derivatives - I fail to see the link - maybe for cash trading, but anything else seems to be sort of random.
BrokenIncome,
You mean you tell me I have KhQh and flop is 2h3h8s, what are my chances of beating JsJd? That type of thing? I could do a rough calculation that I need a K,Q, or heart (and would probably ignore the chance of you beating me if I hit one of those).
So you wouldn't put it on for an ibanking analyst resume? If you did put it on, would listing profits or recent profits be smart? (e.g. Made $X in 2007 by generally playing $Y and $Z buyin cash games). Does the size of $X change your decision?
Ratul,
Poker isn't that math intensive. You have to be able to calculate pot odds and odds of winning against expected hand ranges. This means almost all calculations are very approximate.
There are also implied odds, which is kind of (as I've heard business valuation described as) more art than science. For example, a weak player might call bets with a flush draw under the wrong impression that if he hits it, a better player will lose a lot more on later streets. Better players can get away from these flushes easily and usually lose very little or nothing.
Also another thing to think about is that poker helps pay for college. In theory there should be some credit for that just like there is if someone worked a 30 hour/week shift at Walgreen's during school.
It would be funny if you put Baccarat on your resume as a 'skill' considering it's one of the most inherently non-skilled games out there.
Banker or Player..... uhhh, Banker. Very skillful.
I would put it on my resume under interests, not that big of a deal.
Don't put
Education: University of ABC
Employment: Goldman Summer Analyst (2005)
Poker Player (2002-2006) 1)Champion of XYZ Competition 2)Champion of @#$ Competition -Undertook high stakes online poker games to help pay for my probability textbooks (ironic right?) and board at my university
Put it nicely under 'Interests' along with basketball, tennis, and figure skating
Gshell,
Did you really pay for college through gambling? Please elaborate.
I was asked about poker in a few interviews and one interviewer did ask me about pot odds. I think if you have won a major (>$25K) tournament, you might want to list it.
Remember, the state of California considers it a game of skill...
I have poker in my "personal interests" section. One bank asked me if i was familiar with the current litigation affecting the industry. Another bank was impressed by the fact that I pay my tuition from poker winnings.
Susquehanna loves poker players, teaches poker during their training, and asks all about poker and probability in their interview
Bryan,
I have made enough to pay for college, but only pay for certain parts since my parents pay for the rest.
I've been playing online for about 3 years and seriously (i.e. generally playing 12 tables at a time) since summer 2005. I play middle stakes cash games -- the high and mid-high games have gotten really tough lately since the legislation makes it difficult for recreational players to get money online. I'm an above average player in the games I play, but definitely don't have near world class skill.
The best lesson I've learned is probably money management inside and outside the poker world. I'm glad I realized, before college is even over, that buying expensive stuff for the hell of it just cause you can isn't worth it at all and doesn't make you happy. I imagine lots of bankers figure this out too?
Also, I was thinking of kind of an intermediate between the extremes of listing it as a work experience and as an interest -- putting it as an activity along with school clubs.
you are a wise man
Poker as a hobby (Originally Posted: 01/20/2014)
Hello monkeys,
I would like to have you guys's opinions about letting people know that you are a poker player and how it can change the way people perceive you in the workplace.
Let me explain: my brother and I are both pretty big poker players, we both started with a cash-in of about 20€ years ago and now both have a pretty big bankroll (a bit less than 10k). While we are both in different industries (I'm in finance, he's in marketing), we disagree on letting your co-workers know or not. I don't mind putting it on my CV and think recruiters see it as a competitive spirit and a regular hobby. He thinks that most people still have a very negative image of poker and consider it just as bad as regular gambling - nothing you should let people know about, even less on your CV.
What do y'all think? Scream it out loud? Hide it? No one gives a f**k? Kill your co-worker because he saw you play a quick Sit'n'Go on your phone?
Cheers.
Fellow poker enthusiast here. I drive down to Atlantic City every once in a blue moon when I have a Saturday that is not too busy. Lately, I have also been play in some poker tournaments whenever I get the chance (which is, admittedly, very difficult to do with my work schedule).
I believe that poker's "image" among the general public has evolved dramatically over the years thanks to high profile tournaments such as the World Series of Poker (WSOP), the World Poker Tour (WPT) as well as the associated mainstream television coverage (major networks such as ESPN). There are now also "poker celebrities" (something that was unthinkable 30 or 40 years ago) who have also significantly changed the game's image.
I have spoken to some older professional poker players who told me that back in their younger days, they wouldn't dare tell people what they did for a living. Nowadays, it is more acceptable for one to call themselves a "professional poker player" - especially if you are a successful one who has made a lot of money. Obviously, there will always be some people who could never accept someone who gambles for a living no matter what, but I think there are less people like that now when compared to the past.
Another plus for people in finance - a lot of very successful people in the industry enjoy playing poker as a hobby. One name that immediately comes to mind is the hedge fund manager David Einhorn, who, incidentally, I once saw playing in a tournament at the Borgata Casino in Atlantic City. Mr. Einhorn was also featured recently in a new series created by Bloomberg Television called "Poker Night on Wall Street" in which he and 5 other investment fund managers played in a televised sit-and-go charity tournament (incidentally, this was also at the Borgata Casino)
Disclosure: I have included poker at the very bottom of my resume/CV under "Interests/Hobbies" and will likely keep it on there for the foreseeable future.
I'm so lazy right now. I'm in 173 of 1004 in a $125K...
I want to try to play poker with my friends at the same table. That would be cool!
nice idea
Of course it is one of the most interesting areas in which you can invest.
They have many similarities, plus there are also differences that make people consider them totally different.
Phil Hellmuth wins 16th bracelet
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.reviewjournal.com/sports/poker/phil-he…
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