Silly but interesting question, how are bankers and other rich people powerful?
Told someone I was a banker the other day and the asked me to "reveal what goes on behind closed doors" and acted like I was in the illuminati or something, then I started to think to myself how the media paints all of us as a part of some elite force.
You see it all the time in documentaries, tv shows and movies. The narrator says something like "the rich and powerful bankers rule the world", "bankers rubbing shoulders with the elite" ,"secretive world of banking". I don't think Chad in Restructuring at Evercore or Brad in M&A at JPM are doing any of that, even if they make it to MD.
I just started working in a bank and rich senior bankers are not impressive up close and I doubt any of them are pulling the strings of society at large or are involved in a massive conspiracy involving the government and military. Maybe someone at FT Partners might be doing that but I mean regular bankers.
Where do people get these assumptions from? I know a guy who's the founder and CEO of a large bank in his region and he's just really rich, I doubt he has the network to hire elite assassins to get you wacked or hurt if you piss him off unless he tries to recruit his golden retriever. I know other very senior finance professionals and entrepreneurs and its the same story with them, particularly in the USA, UK and other western countries they are regular people just with a lot of money and sometimes a god complex.
This is kinda why I sometimes think Jeffery Epstein killed himself. Some of us here on WSO are MD's and Partners at large firms, if you wanted someone gone or injured most of you wouldn't even know where to start. We have people here complaining they can't get laid or even talk to girls and I am meant to believe they have the balls to be devil worshipping, child fucking cultists once they get promoted past MD to a C Suite role.
Maybe in countries like Saudi Arabia, The UAE, China and developing countries where the being rich and powerful must be bestowed upon you by the current hard line rulers you could pull of a Jamal Kashoggi or Kim Jong Nam type assassination and get away with it or crash your car and have the government cover it up.
In America and other western countries this just isn't the case, I'll hazard a guess and say an actor or rapper like Jay Z has more real world power than Lloyd Blankfein. What do you guys think? Is there something I'm missing? Do you think this is a career that gives you actual power? If so how?
While I can't answer your question, spooky stuff has happened among rich people in western countries that points to there being some sort of organized shadow power that lurks behind what me and you might be able to see. Google the people I list below they were somewhat famous.
Did you hear about Barry Sherman for example? He was a Canadian billionaire who was assassinated along with his wife in their home in 2017. This guy was worth $3.2 billion, was the CEO of a pharmaceutical company and someone in our world of high finance and money wanted him and his wife gone and they got someone to do it with professionally and leave no trace.
Or how about Alfred Herrhausen? He was literally the CEO of Deutsche Bank, he was in our world of banking and was killed by a sophisticated bomb in his Mercedes in Germany. I looked into it and no one was ever caught and they brushed it off as possibly being done by a West German terrorists, but why would they target him specifically in such a manner? I don't want to get into conspiracy stuff but weird things do happen a group of really rich people start hanging out and discussing ideas.
The idea that bankers and other rich people operate in powerful and secretive ways could’ve been what got these people killed. Not necessarily because that is true though.
Alfred Herrhausen was likely killed by far-left attackers who probably hated capitalism and the expansion of the European free market which Alfred was promoting, and they probably believed that the rich bankers were part of some secret powerful conspiracy.
Not sure about the pharma executive but it’s very plausible that anyone with a hate for pharma companies or the opioid epidemic could’ve killed them. Which in this scenario wouldn’t be other rich people assassinating him, but rather him getting assassinated because people thought his wealth made him part of a conspiracy.
Epstein had direct ties to the CEO of Barclays and Founder of Apollo Management.
Look at just a few of the Fed Reserve Chairmen and Treasury Secretaries over the past 40ish years, individuals who arguably have more direct impact on people's day-to-day lives in both the short and long-term than most Presidents.
I've been around the chairman of that bank or similar, what would having a link to him actually mean? he wasn't particularly impressive
Like the other user said I don't see how having direct ties to any of these people really does anything. Sure you could try and lobby for a vague law that most people don't understand to be passed or repealed but even that has a process and Jerome Powell and a lot of these people just can't threaten some lawmaker or banker to make it happen.
2rigged2fail said himself he is exposed to these people and they aren't all that impressive, i remember fantasizing about working in a bank and finally getting to meet rainmaker MD's like they were some superstars only to see they're just regular humans and some are nice and some are assholes who all complain about the commute to the hamptons or whatever suburb they live in.
confirmation bias though. do people In fihnaunce get murdered at a disproportionately higher level than the general public or others in high profile careers?
*why would the World Economic Forum do this?
I think a lot of it is the media and how the industry is painted. Most bankers are just well-off not really powerful. But if your someone like George Soros who broke the Bank of England or Jaimie Dimon who I think wields power simply because he’s the CEO of the JPM than I do think they have power and political influence. It’s nothing like what you would see in developing countries there are checks and balances but it’s the closest example I can think of.
Jamie*
Jiaimiei*
Hearing MD & Head being yelled at and emasculated by his wife on the phone was satisfying
Never happened!!
Have 1000% been told I'm an asshole though, or extremely judgmental comments or anger been directed at myself. People forget this stigma has been going on for centuries, from the Medici's to JP Morgan bailing out the US gov't.
My favorite personal anecdote was some girl at a party saying something along the lines of, oh wow how can you support power hungry people and push down everyday citizens while you hoard money and influence politics? What you do is horrible!"
So, I asked what she did, and she said PR. I replied with, "Oh wow, how can you support making egotistical rich, powerful celebrities and brands look good and spin stories when they do horrible things or exploit the everyday worker? It's horrible what you do!"
Another great one was some woman at a dinner said something "My broker offered me to buy bonds of people's car leases, I could never do that, taking away someone's livelihood and profiting off them like you do. It's sick, those are people!"
At this point that was maybe the 4th thing she said either spiteful or derogatory about the Big Short and what I've worked on, so just to annoy her I said, "Well, all I see are Loan IDs and dollar signs." Table got quiet but i was pretty satisfied.
It was very satisfying to see them get very frustrated lol
Getting old now
Alright, I'll be the one who goes ahead and says it since we're talking conspiracies. There's a strong consensus that Epstein didn't do it himself, but got Epstein'ed instead.
They're not, but you can bet that their dads are. One day, when they inherit their family legacy, they will too.
That's the whole gist of the elites in the ivory towers of England, New England, Han China, Japan, Berlin, the Vatican, etc. Breaking into banking does not grant you soft power. It's moreso that families wielding soft power (peeraged titled nobility, families descended from imperial/royal dynasties, descendants of the head of militant orders, generals, senators, etc) tend to plop their kids all over finance, politics, law and other ivory towers. Thus, Earl Dukeforth IV who's dad is a direct descendant of King William the Conqueror at Rothschild from Christ Church is lumped in with Todd at Wells Fargo DCM from Penn State's Nittany Fund.
Napoleonsolos back at it again with the alt account
Napoleonsolos and bottombuckethardo are the one and the same.
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Money doesn't get much power in America? Come on, the laws are literally written by lobbyists...
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The general idea of your post is correct but you are wrong about money not buying power in the US. Rich people lobby all the time to get laws passed in their favor
People say lobbying is power but there is at least some process to doing it. You just can't have things you don't like overturned or reinstated at will no matter how many dollars you throw there would be someone equally rich on the other side lobbying against you, if you win then good for you but this isn't raw pure power, you aren't "ruling the country" you're just using its internal systems for your own benefit and thats not against the law.
Also I might be wrong and there really is some shadow elite, I mean it has been proven that the bohemian grove is a thing and a lot of senior politicians and bankers attend, I still think this is a small subset of the general rich population.
The question is not about whether bankers are powerful, the question is: Why are you telling people what you actually do for a living???
This type of "banker conspiracy" theories are a real thing. Wage garnishments by banks are a real thing. People losing their homes to banks in 2008 is a real thing. Why would you ever let the words "I work for a bank" leave your lips???
Let's use some common sense people. I'm disappointed that I had to post this.
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And now you're counting on those same idiots to not have ill will towards you (or worse!) when you tell them you work for a bank???
Use your head, son.
People losing their homes in 2008 had nothing to do with banks and everything to do with idiots not reading the fine print, understanding their interest rates and how they could change, buying more house than they could afford because rates were good at the time and then defaulting on their mortgages
And now you're counting on those same idiots to not have ill will towards you (or worse!) when you tell them you work for a bank???
Use your head, son.
Have worked in structured products since college - can safely say there's plenty of blame to pass around, from banks, non-bank lenders, asset managers, hedge funds, Pension funds, government, individuals, insurance firms. rating agencies. Blame isn't on one group, but banks are the easiest target here since they "made bets, lost, and then were bailed out". Most don't understand how necessary that bailout actually was, how much the world would have actually imploded if they weren't. Most didnt know that the govt was paid back with interest, either. People think monetary policy also was another bank bail-out. People don't know what goes on and that's okay sometimes, but we shouldn't hide what we do like its taboo. we do well, most are jealous of that and make overraching assumptions on the type of people we are. We're trying to provide for our families just like they are
Your average VP or MD might not be in those circles, but it would be wrong to deny that bankers have a lot of hidden power and influence. You should look up the Wall Street Putsch/Business Plot, when bankers almost overthrew the American government. The only reason it didn't happen is because the general they were relying on got cold feet and exposed the whole thing. And that's just one example out of the long history of banking. Do you think it's just a coincidence that Pope Leo X just happened to be from the richest, most powerful banking family in Europe? Or is it a coincidence that the richest Jewish banking family got elevated to noble status in an extremely antisemitic society? Of course not, banking and finance are probably the most powerful sector in terms of political influence.
Bro, there is just no way.
During his and his convicted conspirators' deaths, there were no guards (or they were sleeping) and no cameras worked (I mean, what a coincidence).
I actually believe some extremely wealthy people have a big influence in calling the shots. Your MD is rich but not extremely wealthy, it would be more like Larry Fink or Jeff Bezos
And the modelling agent connected to Epstein got suicided too recently. Crazy, I guess they must all be feeling so guilty about their lives that they all kill themselves
Can confirm - 1st year analyst at FT Partners and have already rubbed shoulders with many of the elites
Username checks out.
It's 'couse o' Abba's song Money, Money.
Topic sentences of my thesis addressing your question:
Excess wealth has long had a stigma in many cultures while it is simultaneously associated with personal achievement.
The value of money
That paths to acquire wealth vary...
What is excess wealth and what implications does the "excess" have.
How money changes people and why it does.
How money is power.
Power is something people don't understand. In the TV show House of cards, there is a line that, power is better than money as long as it lasts. Having contacts and dinners with the Head of the DOJ and rubbing shoulders with the Washington elite gets you closer to that. You can make an acquisition and you know FTC will be fine since you had dinner with their top regulator last night. Giving favors and receiving them that's all it is about, it is kind of a social currency that you exchange. The Goldman banker in 1 MDB stole 100 million bucks and more because he knew Jho Low and partied with him on his yacht . Oversimplifying it is money gets you near to Washington and Washington gets you influence. My father lived in a different country, there people who have money are mostly those who are in power Large landowners, CEOs, bureaucrats, and legislators. People inherit power there, if you have a lot of money you can get away with murder, corruption, and about anything else. Some filthy rich guy's teenage son killed a relatively wealthy boy after molesting his sister and just ended up paying blood money. People in states think there is no slavery just travel a world a bit and you can get a driver, a maid, an errand boy, a chef, a woman who does dishes and laundry. All of them for $5000 and their children end up working for you. You can beat them, not pay them for long times and they will still work for you and they are in no contracts (this is for a person who just has 4 million bucks in net worth, a few million more and you are untouchable and most things are closed doors. You go to a private school so does the future military head, diplomats, and the future cabinet of the country. There are no rags to riches story and most people can never break the chains of social hierarchy. If you see the wealth inequality in those countries you would think there is no wealth inequality in states. Power is different everywhere in some places they might kill a journalist, in others they can just threaten him or his boss.
I thought it was a fairly stupid line in that show - money lasts unlike power, which is just a facade because there is almost always someone higher than you with the actual power, while you've just been delegated to carry something out.
that was the point of the line, a character who cared about money said it to the person who preferred power, money all ways lasts unless they freeze your accounts and you don't have swiss accounts or you do something stupid. That is why money is better essentially but in some places, the both will go hand in hand
The branch loan officer, a banker in his own right, was damn powerful when he could accept or reject my mortgage application while I competed to buy a damn house on a cash offer against 20+ other more financially prestigious offers. When he fudged the DSCR to help me out, man, I have not seen the sort of tears of joy from my wife’s eyes in any other situation. The man outdid my marriage proposal. I made her a promise, but this fine gentleman helped me keep that promise. Mother lord sweet Jesus the grey haired banker was powerful. Just caught me off guard when he asked me if I received his internal application to our Associate program.
comment of the year
Sure most rich people would have no idea how to go about actually getting someone whacked or a crime covered up or whatever, but they can afford fixers who do that kind of stuff. I imagine any "personal security" service that caters to the rich but discreet (unlike the rich and famous who probably actually need security when they go out in public) would either be able to do the shady shit for you or know someone who could.
You're incredibly naive if you think billionaires in the US don't control the government and are incapable of getting people wacked. Obviously your average MD at a bank is powerless - what a stupid comparison. When people talk about the "elite" in this context, they're referring to the top 0.1%, not some random Associate at a BB. Just look at your puppet of a president, the guy is clearly incoherent - you're delusional if you think he's running the show completely autonomously.
When the average person talks about the elite they mean everyone fro analyst and up within investment banks across divisions and product groups. The amount of money we're making at our age is alien to a vast majority of the American population and even though to us thats just Steve in DCM, to a lot of the uninformed they believe he is pulling some strings behind the scenes.
You have to leave our bubble to see how the rest of the world sees us, making 120k a year is insane to these people even though for us thats average and $5m is unfathomable even though to us its an eventuality.
wso has truly ruined my idea what actual good money would be, i used to think someone making100k a year is an absolute baller
When the average person talks about elite, I can guarantee you they aren't talking about a kid making 150k-200k a year who realigns logos on powerpoint for 15 hours a day LOL. Wealthy does not equal elite.
The average person is a moron. Do you know how distributions work?
They might not be part of some Illuminati/Rothschild/Freemason cult that secretly controls every facet of your life, but the higher ups definitely have a lot of influence on policy making. Look at the list of names on these two Fed and Treasury advisory boards:
https://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/ag_financial_markets
https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financing-the-government/quarte…
Having a great network and being able to identify great opportunities. Carefully constructing their network for their long term goals especially.
Hard to explain but I know someone like this. Their charisma is off the charts vs. anyone else I know. Already a multimillionaire with multiple avenues of income (he's an entrepreneur). Barely into his 40s and has an intense hunger for success. I think he still pulls 80+ hour weeks even with a family and is almost always on the road.
The World Economic Forum (WEF) is what you're looking for...
-Here's an example, guy I went to high school with and played football with ended up making it to the NFL. This guy was the best athlete I've ever seen personally, all state in three sports, recruited D1 full ride, appeared multiple times on ESPN's top ten in college; basically ended up as a reserve player (not to downplay his ability or career). Point is, he's in the NFL, so is Tom Brady, but I'm sure Brady has much more opportunities in terms of business/finance/meeting the right people. But that's not an option for every single NFL player. Its like banking, does Jamie Dimon have the ability to probably do whatever he wants, yes, does your average associate come anywhere near that, no.
- Another example, there's a saying in acting when you audition, if you don't get selected what does your performance matter. Meaning, if you're a banker making $1.2M say, that's good enough to get you into some good country clubs, or private schools, or fancy dinners. But that's not shit on the global market of rich and powerful. So if you look at it from that perspective, the rich and powerful don't care if you make $50k or $1.2M, its small peanuts to them. However, on the flip side, to people who have no concept of money, $1.2M might as well be $1.2B.
-Lastly, I believe there is some sort of "illuminati" or whatever you want to call it, I just don't know the depth or in what form. Could just be Elon Musk's guy Dm's the president guy to get shit approved, could be Epstein island. Main point is, if there is these groups of people they don't want their actions to be known, probably similar to the mafia. And at the end of the day, hate to say, I know some good people with good hearts, but they wouldn't make good managers/mayors/governors/world leaders, so I hate to say the real and powerful should run, but until we figure out another way, if you're paying the band you get to pick the song.
Assume as you grow you your career would you or anyone reading this be willing to join such illuminati if approached? Had a chance to become a freemason for a while now but i did not want to join an organization that clearly says they are against people joining them for a network.
First you get the money, then you get the power.
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