U.S. At War
How will this play out? Going to graduate college soon and it seems like we’re entering World War III or something
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Can someone explain why the fuck this country is so obsessed with Israel and constantly helping Israel? We love Israel more than our own citizens
AIPAC
Tell me you’re anti-Semitic without telling me you’re antisemitic
If only JFK had gotten them designated a foreign lobbying group and decoupled our blind military backing at any cost. Can't help but wonder how the last 50yrs would've played out.
Intelligence powerhouse in Middle East.
The quality of intelligence of a state that is under constant threat by muslim countries will be far better than what the US could get. They also helped during Iraq with lots of intel as well
and between allying in the region w some countries that hate you (almost any muslim country), they are the closest to western values
oil interests in the region as well, so it indirectly serves US interest
lots of R&D and startups, especially military/defense, which tends to be as well of interest for the US/US defense companies
The arguments that US support for Israel comes from self-interested realpolitik are pretty weak.
Their intelligence is valuable mostly in furtherance of policy goals that we're already pursuing on their behalf, and wouldn't be so critical if we weren't pursuing those policies in the region.
The oil argument actually goes in the opposite direction. Israel does not have significant oil resources, but other countries we've disrupted, to a substantial extent on Israel's behalf, do have oil. Iran may try to close the Strait of Hormuz now, which would likely cause oil prices to spike.
The actual reason is obvious to any honest person who pays close attention to politics in DC. There are a lot of connected and highly-motivated people, disproportionately Jewish but also Christian Zionists and MIC types, who are deeply committed to Israel and willing to use US power on its behalf, even when doing so is contrary to the straightforward interests of the average American.
I don't know why you got monkey shit thrown at you. Everything you said was correct and literally every single statesman and military general and understanding of geopolitics agrees with everything you said.
Not just the US. White ethno states including all of Europe are interested in maintaining white supremacist ideaology through domination of non-white countries. US and Europe will continue to back Israel as long as they are dominating non-white people. After they are finished with Iran, China will be next. But unlike Iran, China is a peer competitor and can threaten mutual destruction against white civilization.
Imagine any of these things happened here to us In the USA and how we would feel, "Just a thought"
Learn some history first, you are not worthy of the Gekko username kiddo:
1953: The US and MI6 overthew Iran's democratically elected gov to control its oil which was to be nationalized. Installed the Shah monarchy who ruled brutally via CIA run secret police (SAVAK) that tortured and eliminated dissenters.
1979: Iranian people finally rise up and overthrow the Shah. Hostage crisis occurs at US embassy but NOONE was killed.
1980s: The US SUPPORTED Sadaam Hussein as he invaded Iran and used chemical weapons to wipe out entire Iranian villages. A MILLION IRANIANS WERE KILLED. Chemical materials were shipped from the US and the funding came from the good old CIA.
1988: US shot down Iran Flight 655, a civilian plane, killing 290 innocent people and 66 kids. Flight was in iranian airpsace. US claimed it was a mistake but never even apologized.
The story keeps going and going and going.... Sit down, it's not that simple.
This is kind of a bullshit answer. First off, Israel is NOT the only stable democracy in the region. The only explicitly secular democracy in that area is Turkey, though much like Israel, Turkey is currently sliding away from that as it's religious right continues the process of turning the country into an authoritarian, explicitly single party religious state.
Second, even were it true, the US has spent a fair bit of blood and treasure over the years destabilizing other democracies. Yes, putting the Shah back on the throne of Iran wasn't exactly a coup, but it certainly can't be construed as anything other than undermining a nascent democracy in favor of... and authoritarian regime, in this case a monarchy.
I always wonder at how anyone can be surprised that the Iranians chant "death to America" as if that's some sort of justification for American policy. Of course they hate the United States! We backed the repressive regime of the Shah, and when the Iranian people had enough of that, we sponsored one of the bloodiest wars since WWII, a war which (like most of Saddam's conflicts) were launched out of pure greed and backed for the most mercenary of motives. The United States began the conflict with Iran, and consistently has escalated it. To act as though we're the victims of some irrational hatred is disingenuous to the point of dishonesty.
That isn't even the end of it! The independent Syrian state was overthrown, if not with active CIA participation and funding, then certainly with the tacit support of the US and recognition for the new regime.
We support Israel not on behalf of American Jews, but on behalf of American evangelicals. As with everything wrong that warps the moral compass of not only this country but every other, it comes down to right wing religious nutjobs who think they've got a god-given mandate to murder, rape, and enslave with impunity.
Your antisemitism is showing.
Name a few people in power in the US who come from Israel. Being Jewish does not mean you are an Israeli
How will this play out? Not well with that moronic orange blob in the white house.
No more TACO Trump I guess 🥀
Hopefully you have a family friend that’s a physician and will attest you have bone spurs to dodge the draft 😭
Even if he ever reads this, he’s still not gonna let you hit
No one is starting WWIII over Iran. Trump gives an address here in a half hour and will most likely just talk about the success of the strikes.
It is fascinating to watch this play out, however. This whole thing is part of the neocon and non-isolationist faction struggle within the party at the moment. National Intelligence Director Tulsi Gabbard said Iran wasn’t moving toward nuclear weapons, even though she made a strange video a few weeks ago stating that we sit on the precipice of nuclear annihilation. Trump then immediately said she was wrong and went ahead with the strikes. Tucker is furious and destroyed Ted Cruz in an interview. Republicans are denouncing Fox News as propaganda. The whole thing is a little surreal. I’m interested in how the WSO right feels about these strikes and which side the usual people fall on.
Trump, of course, famously accused Obama of trying to start a war with Iran to boost his re-election chances in 2012. Trump repeated this claim multiple times over the years, both before and even during his first term, often suggesting that Obama would provoke a conflict with Iran to rally political support. With dismal approval numbers and ICE backlash, you have to wonder…
It is also amusing seeing the relative silence from all of the “a vote for Trump is a vote for peace” and America First posters here though. No thread from the “Don’t Tread on Me” folk as ICE continuously treads on American citizens as well as the undocumented. No thread from MAGA about the political assassinations by one of their own last week either.
Agreed with this observation; there is a lot of chatter & conjecture out there about why Trump seemingly did an about-face and abandoned the diplomatic route he initially took. But imo this move came from a place of desperation after a failing and hollow agenda. He is desperate to tout anything as a big win at this point which is sad. Tariffs/trade deals? Nothing substantive at all to point to. DOGE/cost-cutting? Hilarious. Deficit reduction? A Big, Beautiful joke. Illegal immigration? He's caved (to the chagrin of his supporters) and is now carving out exemptions for certain industries. The executive action volley and workarounds haven't really been effective either, as courts have served as the check they are supposed to be. It is telling that, dating back to Eisenhower, in his first 100 days he signed the fewest bills into law. He's an absolute charlatan, but it's been amusing to see his supporters either have buyers remorse already or cope and pretend his presidency isn’t already a failure.
This was a WWE "Mission Accomplished" speech, Rubio looked like he took a shit in his pants. Trumpy is just not bright, Hegseth prob has a sub 100 IQ.
Yeah Donnie slurred his way through what I think was supposed to be the word "enrichment" too. Low energy.
Hegseth reminds me of every nepo in IB
I say this as a Republican… I had the same thoughts about Rubio as I watched that speech. I think he might have actually sharted up there.
I'm failing to see your point--wasn't Trump insistent on diplomacy just prior to this? You wouldn't have had any other options either--Iran was unwilling to concede a single inch on uranium enrichment or funding proxies.
This won't lead to either extreme of the outcome spectrum--WW3 or regime change. They're probably gonna have a Soleimani-esque response where they'll hit a wing of some US base or embassy, before crawling back to the negotiating table to concede on everything. They know that a prolonged regional conflict would wipe them out too.
The strikes were a pre-requisite for that to happen. "Muh AIPAC dragged us into a war with those peace-loving, innocent Iranians" is a room-temp IQ take, and anyone legitimately afraid of Iran's military "prowess" should seek TRT.
EDIT: MS'd without a single logical counter in response--captures the essence of this site
EDIT 2: I can't imagine the shear amount of seething now that president Trump's ceasefire has gone into effect
Did you actually mean to respond to me with this?
Most of what you wrote has nothing to do with what I wrote and I wasn't the one to bring up AIPAC, Iran's military capabilities, or generalize Iranians as "peace-loving and innocent."
If anything, that's probably why you're getting monkey shit. Your post is either a nonsensical response or just in the wrong place entirely.
Yeah you're not a serious person.
First, why would I "seethe" about a ceasefire? War is bad. Ceasefires are generally good as long as they prevent further loss of innocent life and aren't simply capitulating to an aggressor. Not everything is a political game of my team vs. the other team. If Trump does something beneficial, then good.
Second though, both sides have already broken the terms of Trump's ceasefire and all he's doing is whining and "Truthing" about it. No one takes the man seriously, not Israel, not Iran.
It's always important to keep in mind the slogan that is proven more and more true with every passing month - from a Republican, every accusation is a confession. Think about everything Mr Trump said about his opponents - from playing golf, to outright graft, to starting wars, to using the military against his own people... he's exceeded any modern POTUS in all of those things, by a margin so large as to be in a whole different league.
Every time you hear Mr Trump get up on stage and tell his supporters that his opponent is diddling kids or accepting bribes, you can be certain that the only reason he can speak so clearly to those crimes is because he's remembering something he did recently.
del
Too early to assess the impact of the strikes in Fordow (probably the hardest nucelar facility to penetrate in the mountains), Isfahan and Natanz. The Israelis have undoubtedly got aerial supremacy after obliterating Iran's air-defence system (they're not even using F-35s, they're using F-15's yet are still hugely effective) but the issue is that only the US have the bunker-buster bombs deployed via B2 / B-52 bombers to penetrate up to 200ft underground. These bombs are up to 30,000 lbs, the Israeli's only have 5-6,000lbs hence the need for them to involve the US. Israel dropped a ton of their mini bunker-buster bombs to kill Hezbollah's leader Nasrallah last year. There's 3 options for an end to this, undoubtedly Iran will strike US facilities in the region like they did after Qossem Solleimani in 2020 (they struck bases in Iraq).
Hence the best, feasible situation for the US / Israel is moderate-to-severe degradation of these nucelar facilities. I doubt it will lead to some element of regime change, though Israel has clearly had a decisive military victory in imposing military, tactical and espionage dominance, battered Iran's proxies that would usually be first response (ie Hezbollah and Hamas) and now has the full weight of Uncle Sam and a President who saw a quick, easy victory (Israel did the hard yards) in the US joining in today. Lastly, from a British viewpoint, the politics of this remains fascinating. Trump's MAGA coalition of America-Firsters, China Prioritists and neo-Cons (if there are any left in the party) will be contradictory at the least. Campaigning on no foreign wars, global peace and criticising prior President's for bombing in the ME will have quickly receded and the internal rifts of the likes of Ted Cruz-Tucker Carlson and Tulsi Gabbard (serious crank) reversing her policy will have factional friction in Trump's administration. As for Europe, they've been relegated to just making statements of soft support and nothing else with Trump side-tracking them. Trump was angered by the UK sanctioning two Israeli cabinet ministers in the current coalition ; it appears Europe have minimal-to-no say in Middle East affairs nowadays, though German Chancellor Friedrich Merz did acknowledge that Israel is doing Europe a favour in attacking Iran.
Were the IRGC to acquire nuclear warheads, Europe would be in jeopardy sooner than America (just look at a map). I don’t always agree with Trump and Netanyahu, but here, they are absolutely making the world a safer place. A country that chants “Death to America,” which has murdered American soldiers and diplomats (directly amd indirectly) for over four decades, has absolutely no business possessing nuclear weapons.
I agree - you can criticise Nethanyahu's conduct in Gaza and him being levered by two, quite frankly, very repressive individuals in Ben-Gavir and Smotrich WHILST being in favour of a Jewish state that has the right of statehood and self-defence against literal terrorist proxies that have death to the West in their covenants. It's something i feel very few people understand yet will chant 'globalise the intifada'. Iran is also much beyond nuclear enrichment for civilian use, hence it's obvious their goal is to obtain nuclear weapons to maintain their status quo of exporting anti-western terrorist groups.
del
A) America is not being dragged into WW3. Our support for Israel is rooted in it being the only country in the Middle East which supports our values (democracy, human rights, etc.). To say that the Jewish community, or AIPAC, is somehow pulling the strings behind the scenes (financially or otherwise) is conspiratorial nonsense.
B) Why strike the nuclear sites? Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that Iran has enriched uranium to 60%, which is completely unnecessary for anything other than developing nuclear weapons (civilian nuclear projects in no way require this). This is a country which has chanted death to the little Satan (Israel) and the great Satan (America) for forty-six years, and killed our soldiers and diplomats (directly and via proxies). Why anyone wouldn’t want to deprive them of nuclear bombs is beyond me.
Seems the comments got removed by the mod team, but i've a guess it's the usual pro-Iran bot spouting propaganda.
It’s beyond aggravating. Sure, I’m Jewish, and yes, I care about Jews being safe, in Israel and otherwise, but beyond that; how can any rational human being be ok with a government that chants “Death to America” developing weapons that could allow it to bring death to America?
Human rights? Far too many mistakenly bombed hospital caravans for anyone to say israel cares about human rights insofar as they apply to non jews.
Been reading too much Al Jazeera I see. For reference:
Iran bombing an Israeli hospital and cancer research center = War Crime.
Israel pursuing Hamas terrorists who deliberately embed themselves amongst civilians (including in hospitals, which they use as military headquarters), after warning innocent people to leave the area before they actually attack = Not A War Crime.
Anyone who actually cares about Palestinian civilians, as I do, should support Israel’s objectives of expelling Hamas from Gaza, demilitarizing Gaza, and providing humanitarian aid to the people there who need it without it being stolen by UNWRA/Hamas and sold back to the people to whom it was intended (to be given freely) at exorbitant prices.
Why are we going after Iran and not North Korea, which already has nuclear weapons. Where does it start and where does it end?
Because Iran has repeatedly pledged “Death to America,” and “Death to Israel.” It is controlled by a corrupt theocracy which believes that being killed in the process of destroying America and Israel grants it rewards from Allah for being martyrs. You want them to have nuclear weapons?
I’m more of a Reagan style Republican than a libertarian but from my point of view this not solely about the U.S. helping Israel. Islamic extremists should not have nuclear weapons. That is not only a danger to Israel but the United States as well. They’ve been chanting death to America and attacking US troops through their proxies for decades.
A country the size of NJ achieved complete air dominance over Iran without our help. If they choose to escalate this further, I’ve got no problem conducting air strikes until their entire military and industrial base that supports it is in shambles. If they still don’t want peace after that, then we take out their power grid and start blowing up oil fields to the point where they no longer have an economy to rebuild any kind of meaningful weapons program.
This. I will add that I can say with confidence that most people in Iran cannot stand their government.
Del
Trump is one of the greatest foreign policy Presidents of all time, and anyone who doesn't see that is blind with TDS.
The comparisons between the 2003 war in Iraq and this strike on Iran make 0 sense. Iraq was a bad idea because 1) they had nothing to do with 9/11, and 2) the war had no concrete end game (how tf do you miraculously "create a democracy" in a country with no history or social infrastructure for this?).
The situation in Iran is very different. Iran was directly responsible for the October 7th attack (through their Hamas proxy), has disrupted global trade through the Houthis in the Red Sea, and has a Supreme Leader calling for death to America and Israel. Do you guys really want a country like this acquiring nukes? You want America to back off now when this regime is at its weakest point in its 50-year existence?
Unlike the bs "democracy building" in Iraq, Trump's strikes had a practical, concrete, and achievable purpose: to take out the nuclear development capabilities of an extremely hostile country. This outcome + Israel's obliteration of Iran's air defense system now gives us significant leverage to negotiate an end to the war (which Iran started!!!), or if negotiations aren't successful, to finish them off for good. Within the span of weeks, the United States and Israel are poised to remove the last headache we've had in the Middle East. As the Abraham Accords proved, countries in this region are ready to make peace with Israel and live in harmony. It's Iran that started this mess.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Typed a whole novel after losing the audience with “Trump is one of the greatest foreign policy Presidents of all time” 😭.
Hyperbolic rhetoric aside, the argument is solid. A regime which chants “Death to America,” and “Death to Israel,” while manufacturing and supplying drones to Russia (which Putin uses to bomb Ukraine) cannot be allowed to develop weapons that it could use to bring death to Israel, America, and the civilized world as a whole.
Since the mods deleted my comment… I’ll have to settle for endorsing this one.
I stopped reading after the first sentence.
>Unlike the bs "democracy building" in Iraq, Trump's strikes had a practical, concrete, and achievable purpose: to take out the nuclear development capabilities of an extremely hostile country.
Trump lied again. After all the MAGA/Right wing media did damage control saying it was just about WMDs, Trump "truthed" that is was actually about regime change.
This is a negotiating tactic. If Iran is unwilling to guarantee giving up nuclear development, we threaten their regime's security.
I don't say this in support / against, but objectively this is something I see is happening.
Public support for Israel within the USA is in serious, serious trouble. Just look at the graph below (Pew Research, 2025). As a college student, I can personally attest to Israel losing support on both sides of the political aisle. I thought we would see the lid come off the democrats support first, but it seems a republican civil war is already starting over the issue. The more Israel-skeptic side is significantly younger, which is not a good sign for Israel.
Support for Israel went from essentially being a non-issue to one of the central questions in US politics in the span of two years. I now see friends, media figures, people on social media, etc regularly call out AIPAC by name. I don't think the current US-Israel relationship can stand up to that level of opposition (50% of REPUBLICANS between 18-49 have a negative view of Israel).
Again, I say this without a dog in the fight, but people who strongly support the US relationship with Israel are going to need to get creative if they want to keep that relationship strong.
Much more a left wing issue, but yeah, the whole horseshoe theory thing comes into play when the far-right gets involved. The Tucker Carlson’s of the world have too much popularity online.
Tucker would be a symptom, not the cause. If 50% of Republicans 18-49 have unfavorable views of Israel, you have to imagine the 18-30 demographic is at least at 60%. Far too many for Republican leadership to ignore, especially as the older voters ages out and even more hostile younger voters come in.
As for horse shoe theory... sure left and right wingers opposed to Israel arrive at the same conclusions, but for far different reasons. For all of the talk about antisemitism, left wingers see this primarily as an anti-colonial struggle, not one against Jews specifically. Most of them just see jews as white people and Israel as an apartheid state.
On the right, you have a mix of people like Tucker who are preternaturally isolationist, and the younger cohort who have a much more specific animosity towards Israel. It's not about Palestinian livelihood or the "global south," it's about perceiving America as "Israel First" and "fighting wars for Israel" (their words, not mine).
These different perspectives are going to lead to different goals and strategies from the left and right, even if they have a similar general hostility towards Israel.
And right-wing propoganda has successfully convinced those with brain worms that criticism and disapproval of Israel’s actions = anti-semitism
Israel is becoming a terririst country.
Close out your tab, Mr. Carlson. You’ve had too much.
Right…nuclear proliferation promotes peace and in no way augments the chances that a bad actor may take possession of weapons that could wipe out the entire eastern seaboard.
Quit parroting Sachs and Mearsheimer. You, like they, sound like a fucking idiot.
Except Israel doesnt even follow the NPT genius.
Enjoy:
Non-Signatory to the NPT: Israel is not a party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), a cornerstone of international efforts to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons. This means it is not legally bound by the procedures outlined in the NPT, which include submitting to inspections by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).
No IAEA Safeguards: Israel has not accepted IAEA safeguards on its principle nuclear activities, including the facility at Dimona, believed to be the source of plutonium for its nuclear weapons program.
Logoff
Surprised this thread is still up with how much censorship WSO has been having lately
We initiated an unprovoked war on Iran that has the potential to destabilize global markets. Iran will retaliate with force and they every right to defend themselves.
Via Hezbollah, the Islamic Regime in Iran is responsible for…
1. 1983 Beirut Barracks Bombings: Hezbollah killed 241 U.S. servicemen in a suicide bombing. U.S. District Court ruling, Peterson v. Islamic Republic of Iran (2003).
2. 1983 U.S. Embassy Bombing: 17 Americans died in a Hezbollah-led attack.
3. 1984 U.S. Embassy Annex Bombing: 2 Americans were killed in another Hezbollah bombing.
4. Kidnappings in the 1980s: Hezbollah kidnapped, tortured, and killed multiple American hostages in Lebanon.
5. 1985 TWA Flight Hijacking: A Hezbollah hijacking led to the brutal murder of a U.S. Navy diver.
6. 1996 Khobar Towers Bombing: 19 U.S. Air Force personnel died in a Hezbollah-linked attack. U.S. v. Ahmed Al-Mughassil, U.S. Department of Justice, and 2006 U.S. court ruling holding Iran liable.
7. 2006 Israel-Hezbollah War: Several American-Israeli dual citizens died from Hezbollah attacks.
8. 2007 Karbala Attack: Hezbollah-trained terrorists killed five U.S. soldiers in Iraq.
9. 2020: Ballistic Missile Attack on Al-Asad Air Base in Iraq; 100+ U.S. personnel injured by a direct Iranian missile strike.
This, while burning American flags and chanting “Death to America.” Now we’re supposed to sit idly by while Iran develops the very weapons which would allow it to deliver death to America?
A prerequisite for declaring war should be some recent and new action untaken to threaten our security. Nothing has changed in the past 15 years to declare war.
In what way is it an unprovoked war with Iran when Iran spent billions of dollars to invade Israel's sovereign territory on October 7? Everything subsequent has been a direct consequence of that action (destruction of Hamas, destruction of Hezbollah, strikes on Iran). Israeli analysts have long recognized the truth that Iran had many borders on Israel, but Israel had no borders on Iran. Iran sowed the wind with its so-called flood and is reaping the whirlwind.
Well put!
October 7th was an attack on Israel and not the US. Israel respond by leveling Gaza. The US should stay out of it.
We survived pandemc, now we gotta survivie ww3. Good lord help us all!
Two outcomes. Either this is actually a singular strike, with Israel initiating heavy involvement to remove their “supreme leader” successfully, and Iran unable to do anything drastic. Or this actually kick starts something greater…which is a real possibility. Serious missile strikes on US military basis, the Shias in Iraq join in, the Houthis step up, Hezbollah steps up, we then potentially have to continue bombing Iranian defense systems. Potential retaliation domestically, which with the way pro-Palestinian protests have emerged and social media involvement, this is starting to look like early 2000s again in a way but with the introduction of social media coverage of everything. Combined with a spotty, chaotic administration…could turn ugly.
Hoping for the best, I don’t hate bombing Iran if they were actually closer to enriching Uranium than when Israel claimed decades ago they were “one week away” from creating nuclear weapons. I also have to remember Netanyahu sat in front of Congress and claimed Iraq had WMDs under extreme certainty..we know how that turned out. Although some say they were in fact enriching Uranium in Iraq at some point.
Israel warned the Bush administration not to get distracted by Iraq, and that invading Iraq would destabilize the region. Israel’s focus has always been Iran, the primary source of problems in the Middle East. Bush chose not to listen
Turn this diagram once clockwise and you'll see a completely different story.
The point is that nothing in the middle east concerns us. We never should have gotten on this cycle in the first place.
Yeah, sure looks like WW3. I can hear the bugle already. Shove it, Groypers.
Yall gotta chill, were not going to war. We've told yall time and time again
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