When will we be happy?

I would type a rant but my hot water is almost out. Saw my buddy I haven’t seen in almost 2 years again today and had a blast. Dude is a professional and just a good family man who I respect 100%. Like the big brother I never had. We’ve been in touch for around a decade now, but hadn’t actually met him until he came down for the World Series in 2021. From washed up college athletes to him now having a baby, we’ve both grown up.

These are the types of people who can bring joy into your life, but until you get your shit together, it’ll be fleeting. I’ve opened up to this dude and he’ll simply respond with something like “do what you’re supposed to do”.

If I knew the answer to that question, I wouldn't be here.

In all honesty, it's important to avoid placing excessive emphasis on deriving happiness solely from your career, internships, or extracurricular accomplishments. I recall my own experiences during the recruitment phase, where I believed that receiving an offer would bring me immense joy. Indeed, it did bring a sense of happiness, albeit for a brief period. However, shortly thereafter, I found myself desiring a superior offer, a more reputable institution, or greater prestige. My concerns shifted to obtaining a full-time offer and fretting over how well I would fit in skill-wise within my chosen banking institution.

It is crucial to acknowledge that while these accomplishments may provide a fleeting feeling of contentment, they do not contribute to long-term happiness. This mindset is not necessarily negative. Individuals in investment banking often engage in upward comparisons because they are not satisfied with the status quo. It is natural and acceptable to desire more—more financial gain, perceived prestige, achievements, substantial bonuses, and heightened social recognition. These can serve as powerful motivators and keep me driven each day. However, it is important to recognize that these external factors alone will not lead to genuine happiness.

True happiness lies in the simple pleasures of life, like sharing a pint of beer with your close friends, enjoying quality time together, and creating lasting memories with your family. It is these meaningful connections and experiences that truly bring us joy and fulfillment.

Indeed, those moments of happiness may be transient, infrequent, and elusive, but that is precisely what makes them so extraordinary and cherished. It is essential to value the small pleasures in life, while also staying focused on your overarching goals. Remember to take occasional breaks and allow yourself to rejuvenate. I, too, grapple with this dilemma from time to time, but the sooner you become aware of it, the better equipped you'll be to navigate this balancing act.

Personally, I get less and less happy with every achievement. When I got my first IB internship at a regional bank I was literally jumping out of happiness. It felt like the greatest moment in my life and I felt like I was set for life. Then I realized culture was shit and work really wasn't that interesting. I then got an offer for a PE internship, which I was really happy about because I felt it was genuinely interesting. However, they didn't offer any analyst positions at the shop I was at so I had to go the banking route before being able to come back.

So I applied to GS and got the summer internship at GS. A few years ago it was a dream that seemed so far away for me. When I got the internship I was hardly happy at all. I completed the internship and got a full-time offer. When I got the full-time offer I did not feel a thing. I did not feel any happiness whatsoever. 

I have spent quite some time analyzing this and I think it all comes down to what makes you feel fulfilled in life. When going back to the internships and jobs I've had where I have been genuinely happy, they all had a few things in common. They all allowed me to take on a lot of responsibility, analyze and solve complex problems, see myself develop and see the results of my work. 

With that in mind, IB is just not a good fit for me. You have zero responsibility at the junior level, all the thinking is done by seniors and you are basically just an execution monkey as an analyst. Moreover, it is extremely difficult to see the results of your work as you are typically not allowed on client calls as an analyst and even if you were, backtracking an outcome to your specific workstream is often difficult. 

Objectively, you would think that people would be super happy when getting that internship, that analyst position, that seat in MF PE or whatever. The reason most people don't get happy when getting that position is because they do not enjoy the work. When speaking to analysts and associates at GS and other banks, I am yet to meet anyone who genuinely enjoys their job. Rather, basically everyone thinks that the job sucks (to varying extents depending on the person you ask, but +95% think it sucks). So what do people do? They start thinking about how good everything will be once they get that seat in PE because that's the only way to justify sticking around in an industry that they hate for another 1-2 years. 

If you figure out what you actually want to do, you will not need to constantly think about what ship you will jump to next. With that said, start by asking yourself if IB and PE is something that you are actually passionate about. I think most people would agree that the type of work you do at a junior level in IB really isn't that interesting 95% of the time. If you're not passionate about IB or PE, but are just doing it because it's a low-risk approach to having a great career and because it's the thing that you are "supposed to do" then I doubt you will ever find much happiness in your job. 

If you are truly passionate about the type of work in IB and PE (not just about the prestige, the money, the exit opps etc.) then deferred happiness should not be an issue. If you are truly loving the analyst experience, then you would be able to enjoy the moment and your current job without constantly thinking "I will be happy once I get that seat in PE". 

You’re unsatisfied because you aren’t doing what you want to do. You’re just the typical hardo student who does what he thinks others will approve. Once you start living for yourself and your own goals you will start feeling genuine and happy.

You don’t even have an offer yet and you’re worrying about this as a freshman. Maybe go get laid and then you’ll be happy

why happy when you could be interesting?

In a similar boat. The question in just, what to truly ever find happiness in? Moving to PE won’t ever do it and even probably staying in finance won’t do it but we continue down this path because we like the money and prestige. I don’t have an answer but if anyone does please let me know, because doing what iI love to do for $50k / year is not it

Everyone is wired differently. Some people derive happiness out of the toys they own and the number in the bank. Others think they want that because then they feel like they'll be seen as a success and validated. I knew people back in my rural hometown in the Midwest that think they are the luckiest people in the world because they have a stress-free life and get to be out in the sun all day and drink with their friends all night. They aren't rich, no one outside of a 25 mile radius knows who they are, and they are perfectly happy with that. Then I know some people who worked in PE for a decade plus and have the time of their lives going to Super Bowls, trips to exotic places, and have a whole floor in their house for movies, bar, game room, etc.. Happiness isn't something that an anonymous stranger on the internet can figure out for you. If you're not happy on the path you're on then switch paths. I can genuinely promise you that no one would think less of you for doing something that brings you happiness or at least enables you to do the things that make you happy. 

For example, I was working in PE for a bit and the money was great, but I love being outdoors and going hiking/kayaking/camping etc.. Can't exactly do that when I need to be online or available to be online at a moment's notice. So I switched to Corp Dev to make a very healthy living and have most nights open to me and every weekend. The best advice I can give you is to find out what makes you happy and then center your life around that (where you live, what you do for a living, who you surround yourself with, etc.). At the end of the day, no one is going to care what you do with your life, just make sure you lived a happy life when it all comes to an end. 

There comes a time when you realize “the future” never arrives. If you spend all your time hoping for the future you will realize one day your whole life you have been thinking about an imaginary reality rather than enjoy the moment.

so why you're pursuing (or planning to) this career if you already feel it will not bring you happiness? are you dumb?

if you can't imagine yourself being contemptuous doing the day-to-day of this job, why are you even bothering with it? Because constantly pursuing the next 'best' thing is a prestige-whore mindset, it's not even about interest or other reasons to get in this field, it's about trying to feel a void inside you with external things (disclosure: and you'll feel miserable)

whenever you decide it

Practicing mindful gratitude will bring joy to the most down bad person on earth. That’s all. Gratitude

Once you have a full time offer at a top BB or EB (or for some, once you have enough credibility with your team that you no longer worry about getting fired on a day to day basis). 

If you've made it that far and can't sit back and appreciate how much you have, you never will. 

Clap along ~~ if you feel, like a room without a roof ~~

Uh huhhh

Clap along~~ if you feel like happiness is the truth ~~

Insert cool dance moves

Clap along if you know what happiness is to you ~~~

Happiness is a choice, not a goal. 

A lot of great answers here. I need to re-read some of these posts a third and fourth time.

Personally, I have no idea and I haven't figured it out. I'm lost.  

I find myself wanting what others want and chasing money. In college, it was about finding that investment banking internship. Then it was about a full-time offer at a BB or elite boutique firm. Then it was about finding an exit to MF PE. Then H/S/W MBA. Then startup founder, HF whatever. The climb is never-ending and I just live for that promised paradise in the future. I'm not terribly excited about all of it, just ok. 

What others want and keeping up with peers is such a powerful trap to escape. And being on WSO doesn't help with that.

Never. Your mentality is wrong and you’ll never be satisfied. Eventually, you’ll reach an age where the realisation dawns on you that your best days are behind you, and the obsessive pursuit money wasn’t worth it. The C63 you can buy now won’t replace the time you lost.

Now, this is not unique to people in this industry. I could say the exact same thing about someone who spends most of their 20s and 30s obsessing over video games. Let me make this clear: I am not saying to not bother with a financially rewarding career. Not am I saying that nice possessions can’t be extremely satisfying. On the contrary; I think it’s a good career essential part of the formula for a fulfilling life. But that’s just it. It’s a part of the formula, yet many people here (myself included) treat it (or have treated it previously) as the cornerstone to fulfilment.

Instead, one should look to financial strength as a tool to enable one to do things that bring joy: family, hobbies, possessions (in that order). Set your goal to become VP. Once you do that, great! Celebrate. Enjoy your life (separate from your career) and use the benefits of your new position to enhance your life. Then, if you need a further challenge, perhaps set a goal to become MD. Conversely, setting a goal to become a VP for the sake of becoming a VP and having money is going to leave you unfulfilled and confused when you actually achieve it.

I’ve been asking myself this kind of question for quite a while. Personally, I’ve found that reconnecting with my Catholic roots, which I had treated with apathy for over a decade, has helped me to realise what’s actually important: family, and enjoying my life (one’s career is not, and should not be, one’s life). However, I am still absolutely driven in my career. In fact, I’d say I’m even more determined than before to succeed, excel and progress.

Now I’m absolutely not saying this to encourage others to find religion (although I do think it would do the world of good for some people in particular), but rather to provide an example. My mindset has shifted and I have a real purpose and reason to succeed and continue to succeed, rather than relying on the extrinsic motivation of “promotion = money + prestige = happy”. Whatever it is that’s the trigger for you, try to shift your mindset too.

tl;dr you’ll never be happy like this, change your mindset

If you try to find happiness from external factors, you are going to face this the rest of your life. Lasting happiness comes from internal factors - your mindset on life, your relationships and bringing rewarding things outside of work into your life like doing fun things, traveling, hobbies etc. As I've grown older, I've come to realize the happiest points in my life are when I am surrounded by good people. Prestige means little outside of the fact it may open the doors for you to meet good people and money has declining happiness utility over a certain amount. For example, at this point in my life getting a raise for the next $100k wouldn't do much to impact my happiness because I already make enough to do what I want to hit my happiness base. I think most people in finance are making an income where you don't have to stress about that 

This is good too below

https://tonyisola.com/2023/06/the-beauty-of-enough/

Personally I had a pretty un-happy time in college as I was doing my undergrad in a state, non target uni and my only focus was to get a 4.0 to get into a good master at a target and land a job in finance. No parties, no gf, just studying to get the best grades possible (and going to the gym).

Managed to get into a good master in the UK, but only got a job in middle office. Hustled for 1y (got a gf, so was forced by her to go out a bit, but spent most of my evenings and weekends prepping for FO interviews) until I managed to get multiple FO offers. Happy? Not really. It's not exactly in the desk I wanted, and I am just worried af that I won't like it/it's not my calling. 

Honestly I cannot recall the last time I was really, fully at peace with myself. It was probably in HS. I get glimpses of happiness, which most of the time I cannot really enjoy as I am constantly worried about my career/life trajectory, but they last a few hours. So yeah, I don't know. 

The closest I can think of being happy is doing a job you like and you are good at, having good health/being in reasonably good shape, having time for your hobbies and having a good gf/wife that supports you/with which you have a great time and with which you envision growing and building a future together.

Good to ask yourself this question so young. Even better if you can find the answer. The unhappiest I've ever been was when I defined by life through external achievements - college success and career when younger. I neglected other parts of my life (family, friends, hobbies, personal health) for years but coped with it decently well by focusing on making the most money out of anyone in the room, or having the best alma mater. It was pathetic and just masked insecurities - and of course I wasnt happy or fulfilled at all. But that was honestly over a decade ago, since I really challenged and changed my perspective on life quite a bit, enough to think I am qualified to answer this question. There is no silver bullet answer since fulfillment looks different for all of us. But some pieces that helped me:

1. To be asking yourself this question is a privilige in itself. It's basically the top of the pyramid in the hiearchy of needs, though it's also the trickiest to solve because there is no consistent definition. As a foundation for your life just be grateful for what you have. If you are typing on this board and in college you likely have it better than 90% of the country and 99% of the world. If you roll your eyes at this advice then do volunteer work or go abroad to impoverished communities. Gain perspective that life is too short and frankly too good to be screeching about whatever topic is trending on twitter, and that you live a pretty incredible life

2. You absolutely take time for granted right now. That's ok, you're a kid. As you get older you realize just how short life is, and even shorter is your willingness to put up with bullshit. At 21 it's easy to play video games all day and live pretty aimlessly. If you have any self awareness though by the time you cross over to 30 or 40 you will realize time is finite and there are things you want to do while you are still relatively young and physically able

3. Achievement is a cornerstone of happiness... but it has to be internally. This one can easily be weaponized against you. You enter the rat race, compare yourself to others, see the carrot of a promotion ahead of you, and define yourself as inferior until you get there thinking then youll be happy and once achieved you have a new title dangled in front of you further up ahead. Achievement and ambition in and of itself aren't bad things. But if your sole idea of achievement and ambition are ONLY the lane you are on at work then I honestly dont think you are really challenging yourself, or being ambitious enough. You should constantly be trying new things, learning, and knocking off simple achievements that lead to grander things you can be proud of. No one starts one day saying "I am going to build a house". They first buy some simple tools, maybe build something straightforward like a chair, then a table, then a shed, and so on until being a carpenter is part of their identity among other things and gives them something tangible to be proud of. This gives you confidence to try other things, since you now know the path from novice to mastery is a long one but that you can get through it and feel really good about yourself in the process. Apply this to anything - skiing double black diamonds, writing a series of books, doing an Iron Man, it all starts somewhere. Find achievement lanes outside of work so your identity isnt just your job

4. Always try new things, and if youre feeling nervous at the edge of your comfort zone about something then that is your body telling you to do it and that it's going to be an important memory later on. So many people sit on the sidelines of their own life, even when they are in situations where they can put themselves out there. Say you are traveling abroad with friends, and you see something weird like insects on the menu that everyone is debating to try before saying nah sounds gross. Ask yourself, truly, when is the next time you will be in that situation (whether it be that counrty, with those same friends, that moment, etc.)? Most likely never, and if not never then likely not often. So if you need a little motivation remember that this is your chance. Dont lose the moment. So you're hiking with friends and see people cliff diving and think that looks fun, or at a bar and it's karaoke night and everyone at your table is on the fence about going, just do it. Be the guy that leads the charge and trust me others will follow and you all will be happier for it 

5. There really is no purpose to any of us on this planet. Again, hopefully this comes with age. Go learn history - really learn it, explore it. Realize how tiny a blip your life is in the course of human history. How those that achieved great things still went on to pass away and be forgotten within just a few generations. That there is no singular purpose we are all striving towards and this planet is just the result of cosmic chaos. Free yourself from the burden you think society is placing on you. Realize no one really gives a shit. Once you realize you have no purpose (other than the biological desire to reproduce like every other organism) then you can create your own and go after it. Career matters, sure, and whatever you do you should be able to take care of yourself and your family. Dont think 'not having a purpose' means it's time to smoke weed all day and stare at the sky.

It means you can do whatever and can choose. And the cheaper you live, the more options you have. If you want a yacht and need it to be happy then the only path is to be a founder of a unicorn startup. If you are simpler, then you can probably be a white water rafting tour guide and live the life you want. If you are going to chain yourself to a cubicle then at least understand why and decide if that is the best outcome for you at that time and long term. You have the ability to really do whatever you want in this life, and that is a freeing feeling 

when you pivot to tech 🥹

Never. Happiness is for people who don’t work in finance

If you’re burnt out as a freshman, why continue in finance? You’re young enough to deviate to what you might consider a more “fulfilling” career path. If you’re only interested in finance solely for the pay check, it’s not worth the absurd hours to go into IB. What I’ve been told is that doing a job only for the money is fine as long as you have the time to enjoy that money. I’ll be first to say I don’t have personal experience with this as I’m a rising junior, but my justification for a career in finance comes from an interest in economics and world news as well as the anticipated pay check. At an internship, I find enjoyment in a lot of the work that I’m doing. If you truly don’t see yourself being happy or enjoying your work in at least a small part, why stay? It’s too much of your life to commit to something that time consuming.

Did not read the whole thread but I think OP is doing things wrong if his happiness is so connected to his job and/or doing the wrong job.I absolutely loved life during my university years, then enjoyed the excitement of entering the work force as an analyst (ok never worked more than 70h/week but mostly 50/55ish because in DCM but that was by choice so I could continue to enjoy life outside of the office ans travel the world since here we have 5 weeks of holidays per year), then progressed eventually to VP making a shit ton of $$ in a MCOL, and now with $2m+ portfolio, my passive income surpasses my annual expenses so I could theoretically stop working whenever I want. Or go get a chil 35-40h job in AM and clear $200k post tax for a few more years. There was no big feeling of sacrifice or suffering in any part of the journey

when you find God