I remembr one time telling a girl I worked at a top bank, and she assumed I was a bank teller.
You say you're a lawyer and people instantly associate that with power. Kids want to be lawyers when they havent even reached HS - not sure about bankers. Think people love to hate Bankers but they love to want to be lawyers/doctors
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The public's idea of a lawyer is a suave guy in a suit, running around locking up bad guys and defending civil liberties while putting evil corporate guys in jail and saving the environment.
In reality, they are spell checking a document that was written to support a deal that you worked on. They're using Lexus Nexus to look up cases that support your client's patented technology while you were instrumental in your client's acquisition of a supplier of raw materials in Cambodia that were used in such technology.
Don't sweat it.
If you're talking about girls at bars: the women who chase money know the difference between a banker and a lawyer. The ones who don't care as much about money can't tell the difference and don't really care either way.
Hope this helped.
If you think that telling some chick that you "work at a top bank" will make blood start flowing down to her sex hole, then it will be a lot more than lawyers that are cooler than you.
Short answer: No
Long answer: Hell no.
Lawyers fight crime. Bankers get rich taking a cut from someone elses work.
Doubt Suits has made it easier for Bankers.
At least you don't walk around telling people you're a Private Banker.
I tell lawyers the changes I want to see and then I go home. And I also earn more than the associate making the changes and I didn't spend three extra years in school.
Corporate lawyers, at least for the first few years, are nothing more than glorified copy editors. Moreover, while bankers work for clients and PE/HFs work for investors, lawyers work for everyone.
So no, lawyers are not cooler. Not that bankers are cool.
Unless you're David Einhorn, you're probably not cool if you do any of this stuff. At least, based on your job alone.
Also, any girl with anything is not gonna drop her panties cause you work for a "top bank."
his wife is as ugly as shit lol (no troll)
law is probably as boring as it gets lol
lol @ the amount of people on this website that think girls care about your college/job. its the money as a result of those things that they care about. and really nice cars.
The type of women that you would get just by having a Porsche isn't really the long-term gf type. They're more for short-term entertainment types.
Many of really nice girls do care about the guy's career/ intellect/ personality/ work ethic, etc. It's not just about your dough.
You obviously know squat shit about women. As the song goes- girls just want to have fun. Really, that's what 99.99% of people of either gender want. That requires looks, personality, and money. Things like career, school are just proxies. At the most there are some jobs that make you interesting to girls- but banker isn't one of them- especially not with all the bad will associated with it post-2009. Most hot girls simply don't find finance interesting- just a place for greedy assholes.
That said- its not that hard to find quality women in NYC given that they are way more single successful women than single successful men.
Every lawyer I've talked to is envious of I-bankers. Higher salary, less school debt, much better exit ops. After talking to several lawyers, I've come to the conclusion that I would never want to become a lawyer.
Especially the guys who went Biglaw. They work the same hours as IB nerds while making far less money, and have to burn three years of their lives in law school (those loan paybacks must be painful).
This. I actually know a guy who quit his job at a large NYC corporate law firm this year. He went to my undergrad, then Harvard Law. Worked at a V10 law firm. (top ten largest law firm) He was a 4th year associate.
He told me that the biggest reason he quit was due to uncontrollable level of resentment he felt against his situation, where he had to work for bankers or guys in buyside, usually working same hours, for 50-60% of their pay. And, the fact that he had to stay in school far longer and had to incur 200k law school debt.
Also, he mentioned how most lawyers have really shitty exit ops compared to I-bankers or consultants. That's one really important reason many people should really plan on going into finance over law. Big law firms have up or out policy, where after 6-7 years and if you don't make partner, you're shown door. Unlike I-banking or consulting work experience, lawyer job experience isn't as valued for as many employers, so lawyers have very limited exit ops. Also, the fact that there is a serious over-supply of lawyers in the job market don't help this situation.
Yeah.
I know a lot of lawyers that say they hate the fact that they are in law. Completely pigeonholed, many times with a family and mouths to feed. What can they do? Not really much but just suck it up and at least try to make partner so they can get some coin out of the whole situation.
I’m friends with a girl who was in a high paying corporate governance law position (Ivy law school grad) who passed the bar in two states (NY, CA) to eventually get to a point where she said fuck it all and became a wedding planner / florist.
I was supposed to meet her earlier this year in her city to discuss her possibly working on some legal stuff for me (corporate governance), but at this point, I think she is like fuck all of law completely. Luckily, she isn’t really tied down in debt or with children so is fairly mobile at this point.
just putting it out there....i would have loved to have been a lawyer for a couple of years, but only under the condition that i could then move to banking once i'd got what i wanted out of the experience
This is what Bruce Wasserstein did. Harvard JD/MBA grad, did M&A law, then went into business and made billions.
WSO thinks bankers have it better than lawyers? Who could've guessed?
Neither lawyers nor bankers are cool to be honest.
I am not sure why WSO tries to deny that status / power / money attract women but hey, I guess most guys here just hang with dirt poor tramp stamp chicks lol.
Then again neither lawyers nor bankers have serious cash lol
I'm pretty sure both lawyers and bankers will continue to be nerdy, short, and uncool jewish kids.
^preach
I'm going to agree with IvyGrad on this one and am willing to bet that most of you who are saying girls only care about cars and money are:
1) still in college 2) rationalizing them striking out on the fact they don't have a Ferrari or $20M in the bank...yet 3) virgins
It's just a really immature viewpoint. Flip it around: Do you guys only care about a woman's looks? No, and while there needs to be a minimum threshold, other things are more important in the end.
Some of you don't sound any different than these douches: http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/welcome_ladies_5l6R0KHXlQYCcwkanS…
I never said money and cars are the only things they care about. I said it's ridiculous to assume girls care about your school name brand and the prestige of your company and say those things aren't shallow and caring about the car they drive is.
No, I am not a virgin.. thank you. I have a girlfriend that I've been going out with for last 7 months.
I am not talking about how the prestige of your company will get you laid. You guys need to work on reading comp skills. Although, if all you care about is getting laid with random low-class dumb chicks, I could see how having a nice car can take you far.
Childish? Lol. I don't think having a conversation about what the type of women that I am interested in tend to look for in men is childish at all. It is a very legit topic and deserves serious reflections.
I think this is the fifth thread i've seen IvyGrad getting chewed apart for sounding like a moron. Quite amusing.
Don't think because you have a 7 month girlfriend you can't 1. be a virgin 2. still know nothing about women. Also, "cute enough" is pathetic bro. You must be 5'5" and balding in college.
??
I suggested that having a nice car won't necessarily help you score the type of women I deem worthy. It's fine to disagree with my opinion/ observation.
Virgin? Lol. It is very easy to get laid, especially in NYC. The hard part is getting the girl you desire, not ANY girl. It's just like this: It's very easy to get into a college, but the hard part is actually getting into the college that is worthy of attending for top job prospects. Hell, if all I cared about is banging random ho's here and there, I can easily hire some escorts.
No need for ad-hominem, on basis of such remarks. You guys are very immature. Have you even worked a real job yet... I hope not.
I am 5'11 and weigh 170 lbs, bro. I am super fit. And I am not in college.
ePeen measuring contest in here huh?
Both sides make great points, and I think the chips fall somewhere in the middle. For example, I dated a great girl for 3+ years and just broke up with her because (for many reasons that I won't bother getting into) I didn't feel like I was ready for marriage yet. She's a great girl - 5' 11" blonde, a CPA, Ivy grad, great family and great values. She makes as much money as I do, and never seemed the type to be attracted to status and money.
I caught up with her awhile ago and she tells me she's now dating a HF manager in his 30's. She was gushing about how he has an apt in the UES and a house on LI and how he takes her to San Diego on weekends. I'm not saying she's a gold digger, but it proves that every woman values status and money in men.
I have ten bucks that IvyGrad is one of these guys: http://gawker.com/5969878/nice-guys-of-ok-cupid-are-not-really
For the record, I hang on to the belief that Quality >>> Quantity.
I don't go for random lays with random girls. I go for quality, stable dates and relationships with quality women. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
And in your opinion, as already stated, quality is passing "the cute enough test".
No. I said that I look for other qualities other than looks in women as long as the woman passes the 'cute enough' test, and the looks just serve as initial screening purpose.
This is my value and my taste. If you disagree, fine. I don't care.
ivygrad what you don't seem to understand is that you're at a huge disadvantage given your proper/dour personality "you are very immature, you need to get help, deserves serious reflection, etc". You sound about as personable as a wet rag.
Further, you claim not to appreciate gold diggers but in the same breath propose that a ivy degree and banking job should be a huge factor in getting laid. Q: If "A" woman does appreciate that greatly- why do you think that is? Because ivy bankers are fun and generous or because they have income potential?
And stop this shit about "its so easy to get laid in NYC but I want girls I desire not just any girl" and "I go for quality > quantity" etc. etc. Nobody believes you. Because the things you claim are anathema to our real world experience with women.
Dude. work on your reading comp skills.
I didn't say women would like you instantly just bc you work in banking. I said that high-quality women appreciate men with ambition, integrity, strong drive, have high intelligence, etc, and these qualities typically are associated with people who work at top jobs and the guys who care about their future/ career.
And yes, it is incredibly easy to get laid in NYC. There are hundreds of escorts and many broke college girls who would gladly fuck anyone and his brother for 200-300 bucks a night. Getting a girl to bang in NYC is as easy as ordering a pizza off the internet. Sad, but true.
For the third time, that's my point. Good Job/Good Degree = money, security. That's it. You think it means more than that or that its even a factor separate from money. "ambition, integrity, strong drive" For what? To have money/security. ....(and btw- integrity is a separate issue, and its not the first thing the lay person thinks of when they picture a young wall street aspirant- but it comes under "personality" in my trifecta.) It's VERY COMMON for women to claim they are looking for "educated" "sucessful" "ambitious" "strong drive" these are proxies for money/stability because they can't outright say it. Say it with me: personality. looks. money. Your strategy checks the money box and possibly damages you on the personality box for most girls. Now if their personality preference is dour serious professional - then you've hit the set (assuming your claims of being 5'11" and "super fit" are true) -- but you WON'T have the nuts in most hands - especially for the pots your really want (your typical pot: educated, posh, stuffy, serious gold-digger). To use a poker analogy.
Second, you keep mentioning esocrts. Why doesn't that surprise me? But any-case- for $200-300 in NYC- you won't get a hot unspoiled girl- but rather a trashy veteran. It sounds like your pickup strategy is propositioning desperate college girls- even though they need the money- your come on will disgust them and probably earn you a slap. So. Unless this was all a joke- you will NOT convince me that your view of things earns you the opportunity to bang many decent looking girls. I just don't believe it. Period.
Dude. Listen. All this crap about what women like and how do get women, on this website, is fucking retarded.
I don't care what you think is the best "strategy" to get women. All that matters is that I have a high paying job that I enjoy, and that, in my opinion, has helped me greatly with dating certain type of women that I am attracted to.
Real life is all that matters. You could come up with theory x, y, z or whatever jack shit you are sprouting. I am dating a girl that I am very happy to be dating, and she explicitly mentioned to me that the most important traits she looks for men are their core values: strong work ethic, motivation, drive to succeed, sense of humility, and good sense of humor. Not a random dude with a Porsche. And a Rolex. Plus she mentioned she likes guys who are tall, slim, and know how to dress well.
And, I don't even have a car. At the end of the day, I didn't have to spend 70-80k on a BMW convertible to impress girls. Hell, when I go out for dates, my girl friend actually offers to buy me meals, drinks, etc many times.
Lastly, like I said, I wouldn't date women who would get with a guy based on the car he drives, anyway. So, the fact that I would attract those types by having a nice car, nicer watch, bigger apartment, etc doesn't matter to me anyway.
and she still hasn't done the dirty? dude, sounds like you need to buy a car.....a nice one at that
ReadLine, flawless victory.
I was going to gas you up some more. But whatever man, we disagree. I think you're totally wrong. IMO- If your girlfriend said that- she was saying proxies like I predicted.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this.
PS- Never said anything about cars,watches. I agree quality people dislike show-offs.
Both are viewed pretty contemptuously to be pretty honest. What surprise you is that I find this somewhat lamentable. Why?
Getting into either a top law school or a job at a bulge bracket usually requires both intellect and hard work. People here shit on lawyers, but let's face it, most people going to top law schools are probably just as smart as you are, and probably had higher grades in college given that you can't just network your way into law school. Regardless, I feel like most people, with the exception of senile Asian mothers, do not give other profession as much respect as they deserve. Both are respectable in my book.
Instead, the undeservedly "cool guys" in today's society are usually independently wealthy and therefore have the freedom to really pursue whatever career they want, even if they do so at a (financial) loss. They participate in human rights rallies and then go home to a posh apartment financed by daddy who owns stock in a corporation that generates its bottom line from sweatshops in Cambodia. They start some bullshit micro-finance initiative in which they live like non-rich for a grand span of 48 hours and start a Ted Conference for about how it was a "transformative experience". But hey, they drink organic tea so the world's a better place, right? At least lawyers make money. These guys don't deserve jack shit praise in my book.
So you're talking about most liberal arts majors who don't go into the core fields?
Just kidding, but not really. I know many of these types.
I don't care if you are a lawyer or a banker. just show me your net worth. peace.
There's some real beta content on this thread.
finally someone to point out the obvious
Women do not care about money...they care about other traits that are often correlated with money but not the money itself (especially girls younger then 25). One of my best friends who i love to hang out with because he is great with women and we always end up doing well when we go out together is really struggling financially and whenever the subject of money comes up he's says something like "sorry girls, im poor...if you want money hang out with him (pointing to me)"...its always a good line and ive never seen a girl who doesnt respond well to him being comfortable enough with himself to say something like that. Point being, dont be hung up on money b/c girls just want an interesting/fun guy, not some dude whose hung up on cash.
These posts are getting kind of gay. This story reminds of the tools that run around town tryin to sarge because they can't just act natural and chat up some tail.
oh and i should add tha the few girls who really are gold diggers in NYC can do wa better then young bankers...this city is really full of very rich people, making 120-250k per year does not put you in that category. So rest assured that any attractive woman who is sleeping with you is not in it for the money...unless she's a troll she could definitely get someone much richer especially if she's into climbing the age ladder a bit (which most girls are).
Lets be honest, half of you clowns aren't pulling any chicks lol smh...
As someone said further up. Girls esp ~25 dont care that you work in finance, its NOT interesting to them. Its not a talking point. THEY DONT CARE. Ive said stupid things to girls to be funny (esp club rats) like "Oh im a talent agent, or shoe designer, or PR rep for a fashion company" and you should see their eyes light up (opportunists). I say finance, i get "oh nice, i know the Vice President of Morgan Stanley"...Lol there are hundreds of them
For real tho, all girls care about money in some form. You're lying to yourself if you think they dont. What I dont think is that some girls (esp younger than ~25) go out looking for guys with money. But if you connect on some other level, im sure if you have a great job, good head on your shoulders it will certainly make you more attractive
And why I say girls under ~25 dont give a shit is BC in NYC, attractive girls under ~25 get ALL the attention. They get it from guys our age and from 40 year old creeps (esp in nightlife). Free drinks, promoters,free dinners, get to go to events...
They dont need your money...yet lol
But we all know what happens when they hit 30 ---> 35, the superficial ones that enjoyed that ^^ life, start scrambling lol. Bc 25yo ambitious, good looking guys (All of us) aren't chasing them and neither are the creeps their age. They're still chasing the 25yos.
OP is an idiot, and the average banker and lawyer are both pretty fucking boring
unfortunately this amounts to an argument about which midget is taller. if you say "i'm a banker" or "i'm a lawyer" most girls just hear "i'm boring/arrogant" and assume your personality sucks (because it probably does). additionally, it's not like the money is some kind of lure - banker/lawyer money, especially at the junior levels, won't impress any girl in new york. there are girls who are attracted to the idea of dating a banker/lawyer but those girls probably have equally shitty personalities and most of us would not want them.
this is not to say money doesn't matter to girls. many girls may naturally require banker salaries to become interested...but it won't be the reason why they're interested, just a prerequisite.
I agree with Ivy. You could meet girls that look like a 10, but after getting to know them and hating their personalities, they become an 8. And you could meet a girl that looks like an 8 at first, but then after being attracted to their personality and the way they act, they could go up to a 10.
Women under 25 only care about looks and then status in their social circle. Your paycheck is not relevant. The occupations they find cool are dead end shitty jobs: bartender, club promoter, DJ, drug dealer, run-off-the-mill small business CEO - someone owning a cell phone kiosk at the mall or a mobile app startup (oh, wait, people here also think mobile app startups are cool). Trust fund baby is a cool occupation too (actually, the best one, and works on older women as well).
Women that are 30+ will care about your paycheck/occupation. They will have enough experience by that time to figure they are not ever getting a billionaire/rock star/fortune heir, and to realize that a bartender earns pittance and does not own a house in the nice neighborhood where they would like to raise their future kids. At that age she can't brag to her friends that her boyfriend deals drugs/promotes for a local club - not cool anymore. That's when they will consider dating some boring banker/lawyer/doctor/engineer/programmer/accountant/corporate guy. That's when it will matter if you work Front Office at Goldman Sachs or Front Desk at Mike's Auto Repair Shop.
Looks are the most important factor, though (backed by a mountain of scientific research on the topic). Better be tall and good looking if you are thinking about model tier girls in their early 20s. You can even be jobless and live off your girlfriends in that case.
Sorry for crushing someone's dreams of a stable of models once you land that BB IBD analyst position...
TL;DR Neither Banker, nor Lawyer are cool jobs, and won't get you laid with models in their 20s.
I'll probably go with pro golfer for my profession. Bishes never watch golf enough to know who's who.
Underrated comment
Some of you guys have it backwards. As someone said earlier, women are after the traits (i.e. intelligence / drive / work-ethic / etc), not necessarily the money, and no it's not because it leads to money or is a proxy for money (though most often it does). Those are attractive traits by themselves.
For instance, I have no doubt in my mind that most women who are not total club-rats (and aren't whales) will prefer to be with a guy who has those traits and will end up as a guy doing okay for himself but never rich (F500 job, for instance) and the woman understands he's never going to be rich over a (extreme example but), rapper who is dumb as a box of rocks, has no manners, but happens to have money. I'm talking about picking a man to be with long-term and have kids with, not a one night stand.
Extreme example, but no, it's not all about money and other things obviously come into play. A broke ass guy with a kick ass personality will always get laid by higher quality women than some guy who sucks, has no personality but happens to have money.
thread is stupid as hell. wouldn't have expected any different from college juniors and seniors.
I guarantee you that with equal looks the above mentioned dumb rapper throwing around wads of cash is 1,000x more attractive to virtually ANY woman than an intelligent accountant with great work ethics.
Money and fame and all the excitement that comes with it vs boredom of a guy with perfect work ethics spending his evenings in the office over balance sheets? Are you kidding?
Soulja boy is not more attractive than a college grad with equal looks who will make less money than him to most women with a college degree, no. No use even wasting my time any more typing, people believe what they want to believe.
sick_willy youre kidding right?
I get it, I really do fellas.. you're all great looking guys, who went to ivy league schools and have great exit opps...in NYC, your story is just like everyone elses. Nothing special
No girl is going home with you or any "college guy with equal looks" over Soulja boy or any other commercial artist/rapper)...like none, comprende?
More importantly, did you guys know that the Aaron Korsh originally pitched Suits to be a show about investment bankers - but USA thought that it wouldn't sell as well as a show about a pair of lawyers (something about sentiment surrounding the crisis).
Say what you will but lawyers get way more TV shows than bankers do hah.
thanks for the info. had no idea
http://www.celebdirtylaundry.com/2012/interview-with-aaron-korsh-creato…-suits/
thanks for the info. had no idea
http://www.celebdirtylaundry.com/2012/interview-with-aaron-korsh-creato…-suits/
.
Always funny to me when guys get offended that girls care how much money they make, and aren't just interested in them for their "personality". Guys don't wanna date fat chicks, girls don't wanna date poor losers. Way the world works.
MBA/JD...then you can be both!
I bet you she knew exactly what you were talking about when you told her you were a Banker, but she just referred you as a bank teller just for kicks. Lol...
From what I have observed, there are many guys with wealth and there are many guys with character. I think its the combination of both that can get you girls, and not just one of the abovementioned.
IvyGrad, By and large, I'm siding with your stance, but here's an observation: In the beginning you were coming out strong, intelligent, and dignified. But as soon as you claimed that you're not a virgin in response to apparent ad hominem attacks, your credibility crumbled and appeared as soft and approval-seeking. Whether or not you're a virgin played very little in the quality of your argument and the validity of your views. When it's clear that your opponents refused to battle as grownups at your intellectual levels, why sink to their level?
Both fields will always be "cool" enough for its members to obsess over money gained and ladies banged.
This thread looks like about what I would expect...lots of dick swinging, stupid theories, and more bullshit than I can get through by the 2nd page. Here's the thing. Some people are shallow, some are not. Some girls are gold-diggres because its a good short term goal. We're all finance guys, I think this is pretty straightforward. Cost-benefit analysis. Instead of "wasting" their young lives trying to find a soulmate, or whatever, someone they want to be with long term for the right reasons (read: because they love them), they can go out, get inside some young rich over-confident banker/lawyer/consultant's head and live the good life, even if only for a few months. The same person might be fully capable of a normal relationship, they just don't know it (or care about it) yet. And the same goes for guys. I can honestly say that I've never really been able to make myself stay interested in someone for more than a month, sometimes less. I get bored easily, and I don't have a hard time when I want it. Not bragging, but unfortunately I don't know how else to make my point without anecdotal evidence. Anyway, the one exception, ever, is my ex. And she was different from about anyone I've ever met. Currently in law school, she was extremely smart, intelligent, razor sharp, stubborn, self-sufficient to the max, independent, and gorgeous. Things didn't work out, that sucks, and I'm single again, for now. We'll see what the future holds, when we both figure out our lives. Point is, even though from the moment I met her I thought she was beautiful, I saw much more than that. Unlike every other piece of ass in my life, hot or not (we all have those moments), it actually meant something to have somebody that wasn't an airhead. And I think it goes both ways. Women like intelligent guys just as guys like intelligent girls, for real relationships anyway. But if you're just looking to have a good time, money, physical appearance, and other superficial factors become important. And there's nothing wrong with that. Hell, that's where I'm at for now, and it's fun as fuck to do what you want. But when it really counts, I don't think anyone is going to truly be happy tying themselves down for just money. Or status. It works for a while but not long-term. So I guess...point is...do what you want. But if you're really worried about what women think of your job, title, or checking account, maybe you just aren't doing it right. Because, either way, if that's all you got, you should work on your game. Hell, physical appearance should at least count a bit more than your job, that's how you get attention in the first place...that and personality. In a place where everyone has a great job with prestige, lots of money, and lots of nice shit, you have to stand out somehow. Just be yourself...that usually works.
They're both equally uncool.
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Id deserunt sunt sit vitae reiciendis sed qui. Doloribus et sit quas laboriosam rerum aut. Fugit maxime beatae itaque qui occaecati dolorem. Voluptatibus rerum omnis dolor aut iure aspernatur. Provident hic in totam quisquam inventore atque enim dignissimos. Consectetur illo accusantium et fugiat.
Pariatur ut ratione occaecati ducimus voluptas. Aut exercitationem architecto est et amet.