PE Tier List - Any ideas?
I was always wondering what is the general consensus around PE tier list (not trying to shit-post). Obviously, we have various tier lists for IBs, but not sure how does it look like for PE. I was thinking something along this:
Tier 1a: Top US MF(Apollo / BX / Carlyle / KKR / Bain / H&F / Silver Lake / Thoma Bravo)
Tier 1b: European MF (Permira / CVC / Apax / EQT) and other US MF/UMM (TPG / Warburg / Advent / CDR / Vista)
Tier 2a: Value/credit-DNA shops (Oaktree / Ares / Centerbridge / HIG / Cerberus) and top growth (General Atlantic / Summit / TA / Insight)
Tier 2b: PE arms of banks (GS MBD / MS PE), active sovereign investors (GIC / Temasek / Mubadala), some UMM names (Berkshire / GTCR / MDP / TH Lee etc)
Tier 3: Rest of MM buyout (Bridgepoint, Genstar, ABRY, WCAS, Platinum, too many to list), SoftBank + a few others on the growth side (Vitruvian, PSG etc)
Tier 4: Anything with <$10bn AUM
Tier 5: Anything with <$1bn AUM
Anybody remotely familiar with PE knows Carlyle is definitely done for. I’m also not sure if I can make a viable case for Bain above Advent (much better trajectory than Bain), CD&R (massive fund and very solid returns), or Vista (especially if Silver Lake and TB are also Tier 1a)
Can you elaborate on Carlyle?
Honestly just look it up … should be very self explanatory, everyone in PE knows the basics. I’m not even in PE but something like they’ve had horrendous leadership transitions recently, high turnover at all levels overall, and I can’t even recall the last time I’ve seen them on a headline for an investment, exit, fundraising, or anything positive for that matter…
Carlyle, Bain down to 1B. TPG, Advent, CDR, Vista up to 1A. HIG and Cerberus down to 3. Cmon dude.
Keep Bain in 1a or TPG in 1b. Don’t see how TPG could be better than Bain holistically
TPG>Bain, no doubt to me. I can’t think of much that Bain excels in above the rest whereas TPG has a strong tech team and best in class ESG/climate investing (both of which have probably the best tailwinds in the economy). I don’t mean to glaze TPG but they’re no doubt a T1a firm whereas Bain is a little more debatable
For the retards that take this stuff to heart u should edit your list per the comments bc all the ones until now are correct
Back to the IB forum please
You can’t think of PE like this and make tiers like you can for banking. Different people are maximizing for different things, and there are factors that are key for a career in PE that this forum doesn’t even consider. For example, some funds are 2 and out, and others are direct promote. Some funds will deploy a lot of capital quickly and do a lot of add-ons, which would allow an associate to get the experience they need to secure a VP role at another fund (instead of closing zero deals at a Megafund). You need to view PE recruiting through a more wholistic lens and think about what you’re looking for. You aren’t going to go to H&F if you want to play in distressed, or Oaktree if you want to do growth buyouts. You can’t even compare these two. This isn’t banking where it’s as clear what is “top.”
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KKR and Carlyle are certainly not 'Tier 1a' in Europe. Their latest European funds are in deep shit.
Can y'all fucking goofy analysts/interns stop with this cringe ranking exercise? A PE is not highly sought after just because they're big. Carlyle wouldn't be spoken in the same breath as many firms in T2/3, they're probably on the steepest decline of all the MFs. Using AUM as the only differentiator for the lower tiers is just idiotic. Thinking sovereign wealth funds are in remotely the same universe as some of the top UMM/MM names is double-digit IQ thinking.
DEL
Of some shops that play at that size? Sure, maybe. Of firms like Berkshire / GTCR / MDP / WCAS / Genstar? Not even close...
People need to be verified as actually being in the industry, it's insane what prospects and incoming interns are thinking. Most actual analysts understand that PE isn't put into tier lists and you recruit for what your interested in because that's what matters at the end of the day. This isn't like IB where everyone wants to leave and thus you can tier list a bit easier based on just that metric, but for PE people want different things and thus tier listing is hard(contrary to popular belief not everyone is optimizing for MBA or whatever prospects assume is the golden path). Can we at least restrict PE forum to those in the industry? It's fine to have the IB forum include them since they are recruiting for that but most of PE recruiting is for associates anyways.
Honestly it's beyond dumb some of the things uni kids and IB analysts believe / have been conditioned into believing. I literally heard some idiot say "KKR is for BX rejects" because their AUM is lower. Like bruh..
This is a stupid post. You cannot create a generic tier list for all of private investing. You can definitely create them if you narrow down your parameters ex. UMM/MM private equity healthcare buyouts. But attempting to make a broad tier list completely ignores the fact that people make career decisions based on more nuanced factors than just the name on the header and AUM.
These types of posts are low quality, OP should be ashamed and go back to the IB category.
PSG is about to close its 6th fund at $7b in a tough fundraising environment with strong returns. Defitely not Tier 3, who is making these lists?
Yeah I'd say on par with GTCR, think it's just that PSG is a newer fund and hasn't had time to build rep. Don't think OP would put providence tier 3.
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