VPs+ are you happy ?
VPs+ are you happy and do you have time to yourself or do you feel tied down by work all the time ?
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Based on the most helpful WSO content, a Vice President in investment banking shared that while the industry is demanding, things do get better after the earlier, more grueling years. They emphasized that being supportive of your significant other during busy times is crucial, as the job can already strain relationships. The VP noted that the workload becomes more manageable, and the fact that they are home most days and weekends is seen as a win compared to other demanding professions, like the military.
It seems that while the job remains challenging, there is a sense of balance and improvement in lifestyle as one progresses in their career.
No, I'm not. LMM Tier 2 city.
In my experience the quality of juniors has gotten worse over time. Often coming to the rescue to execute junior roles + expected to remain high level = always on and tons of stress.
What factors do you believe have contributed to the decline in junior quality over time?
Brainrot.
Do you think this differs by industry sector? I've seen some pretty strong juniors in FIG, which likely has some selection bias
I would also note the "LMM Tier-2 city" part of his answer...
In typical VP fashion, blaming your misery on juniors. Plenty of firms, including my own, have great juniors. Maybe hire better?
"Typical VP fashion"
"Plenty of firms... have great juniors."
Which one is it, little bro?
I think VPs might be the unhappiest people in PE. "All of the responsibility, none of the control"
(particularly ones residing over struggling portco's)
Second this. VP is a brutal time. Think Principal tends to be pretty brutal too. So much pressure, so much competition, such narrow funnels, limited agency, don't feel any of the economics yet and oftentimes cash-poor relative to where you expect to be. There may be light at the end of the tunnel, but it's an insanely long tunnel that somehow gets longer all the time and the light seems to get slightly dimmer...
For sure, it’s why I made a move at SVP-ish level despite not having to.. another round of years at the principal level to beg and claw to try to make partner seemed absolutely not appealing to me. But ymmv..
I feel like the most unhappy archetype in PE is a freshly minted VP, with a big salary/bonus and some nice carry, who is now overseeing multiple bad portcos that he or she had absolutely nothing to do with (e.g. investments were made before they were there / had a say / etc). Like if your portcos are doing fine, it's not bad - limited maintenance / can delegate to associates, focus on new investments, grind (in a good way).
Otherwise, that's a really annoying and frustrating position to be in -- nothing you can really do about it but grind through and hope the folks you work for are not assholes.
VP at MF (never updated title)
I’d say miserable more often than not, tend to be buried with work, and have poor WLB
Tough to turn off as well as I’m always scatter brained esp. as expected for us to source, show can QB new deals, run point on portfolio work but at many times pick up ASO slack and do the grunt work so spread thin across multiple work streams
With that said, I get a sense this is the real filtration process that is natural in the industry / not new as the lifelong PE guys & gals discover they genuinely enjoy the work and the constant volume vs. others that have other priorities
To each their own of course but think I’m personally gravitating to the latter, and now taking the mindset of learning as much as I can but honest with myself that it’s okay not to make it to the other side of the filter (even might be a silver lining)
are you open to a call?
did you not read his post bro?? he does not want to spend 30 minutes on a call with a kid from wso the mf is barely afloat already. the art of reading the room is dying
+1 to many of the VP comments. I had more freedom and agency as a high performing associate because I actually had some leverage. Being able to leave and being the best associate gives you some real power. Also, as others have said, the talent drain is real - across Associates, CFOs, heck even controllers. All the above were materially stronger 10 years ago than they are now.
What do you think contributed to this change? Easy to blame it on technology and ‘brainrot’ but it also seems like recruiting practices may have contributed to this talent decline. Am I off the mark in making that inference?
Think all the below are factors:
On the CFO/Controller side, think it's a mix of retirements, high finance sucking up all the potential younger talent, and the increased demands we put on them. More complex than it was back in the day.
You sound like a tool. I assure you a big reason why your associates ignore weekend asks or aren’t willing to run through walls has a lot more to do with how you treat them than you might admit. Not saying you haven’t highlighted some real problems but the best associates I work with do their best work for mid levels who mentor them, train them and are willing to be in the trenches with them, not the ones who think they’re God’s gift now that they’re a VP and the world owes them something.
Exactly the response I'd expect from a low performing, new generation Associate. No one wants to force people to work on the weekend, but sometimes it happens. If you want a VP to "roll up their sleeves and help you crank", that probably means you can't get it done yourself. When I was an Associate, you wouldn't catch me dead letting my VP/Principal make a deck or fix a model directly. But it happens a lot nowadays. A VPs job shouldn't be to cover up for your inadequacies, though as this thread discusses, it increasingly is becoming just that.
When u really wanna say the n word
Older talent is worse than a 23-25 year old? Lol From my experience older talent is more thoughtful about what they are doing vs a 23-25 year old who will just update whatever is asked of them. Older people are also more mature and if they start in a PE/banking role in their later years, it means it's something they have wanted to do for a long time and will likely commit more than anyone.
Sounds like you need to hire better and/or fix your attitude.
Ignore title. Agree that associates have way more leverage and freedom in terms of where they can go (in terms of opportunities etc.)
2022 onwards have also made me disillusioned about the industry in general and I wonder if I will ever see any carry dollars. Funds take ~10 years to start giving carry. If 2020-2025 vintages are weak, then I'll only likely see my first "real" carry cheque maybe sometime in 2037 or even 2040. Not even sure if I'll still be in the industry then.
Kind of regret not staying as an investment banker tbh. If I stayed on in IBD, I would be more cash rich and quite close to FIRE and chill out on a beach.
To which fund did you go? The cash comp cut from banking to PE is not as big that you could have retired by just a few years in delta.
Unless you're at an UMM/MF it can be quite substantial, especially if you left an EB. Currently interviewing at EBs from LMM/MM PE and am looking to +70% my comp, lol. Comp delta can be quite high at mid-level as well when you finally start to make real $ ($500K+).
Money aside, is there any other reason you would have rather stayed in IB?
LMM T2 City. Oddly, I am both happy and also stressed to my eyeballs with no free time and poor WLB. The switch from being evaluated on task completion to being measured on overall outcomes has hit me like a truck. Silver lining is the work has been paying off and firm performance is strong.
Also having a supportive and loving partner at home really helps. Worst periods of my career have been trying to manage long hours + a volatile personal life.
How do you balance this effectively? Sounds tough
I don't think I'm balancing it effectively, though I'm pretty stubborn and have been gritting my teeth through it. What has been keeping me sane is it feels like the learning curve has been flattening out and the WLB is at least trending in the right direction.
not happy at all; i used to drink the corporate kool aid and believe that PE was the promised land, and i genuinely loved it at first.
my associate years were lots of fun and a great learning experience.
but as i moved up the ladder, it occurred to me that my higher ups are all in their 40s - 50s and will NOT step aside to make room for the next generation.
upon realizing this, work was never the same for me, and seeing how clogged middle management is at my firm, i don’t believe that it’s realistic to think that i will ever make it to partner here.
but where the firm’s true colors showed was during the past couple years when lots of middle management was laid off. most of them had once been like me; happy to be at the firm and believing that this was the promised land, only to have their dreams crushed from the slow death of golden handcuffs, nonexistent upward mobility, and the fact that they will never make it to partner. when many were laid off, the firm didn’t care at all about them, and they were treated like disposable corporate assets.
accordingly, i have been watching my back as well, while preparing to quietly leave when a better opportunity arises.
it’s just so sad to see a firm i loved so much become one where i feel like im walking on eggshells 24/7 and am desperately looking to leave from.
this place truly is alcatraz - on the outside, everyone is trying to get in, but on the inside, everyone is trying to get out.
corporate america has truly lost its way.
Genuine question for you and other VPs I’ve always wondered —
If you hate it , why not retire/coasf?
Doing the math, it seems like if you work until your VP years, you should have enough of a cushion to retire, or at minimum take a corp fin job where you basically spend everything you make for a few years to give your PE nest egg a few extra years to work in the market before retiring… why not do this ? And to be clear, it seems like the cushion works such that you won’t be impoverished and can still live/ travel pretty well.
Is it because of lifestyle inflation essentially?
Most PE VPs don't have a big enough nest egg to retire with, especially after all the inflation of the past 3 years. Often the majority of your carried interest will be forgone if you leave, and the vested portion has a bunch of "heads I win, tails you lose" language drafted by K&E which you had no ability to negotiate when you signed it. So you are kinda stuck and at the mercy of the partners and the markets. Waiting to either get promoted or Peter Principled out.
Referring to PE midlevels as mid management is a new one.. also PE =/ corporate America.. you sure you talking about PE?
PE at a large mega is corporate America on steroids dude. I was also surprised at first as I thought of PE as super smart people making sensible decisions but these days it’s really just accomplished people filling out large forms quickly and smiling on command, but retaining the ability to actually think on the rare occasion that the situation demands it, and doing all of this for 80% of their waking hours. If you think of it that way, it’s actually much easier to play the game.
Aren’t you at least grateful you weren’t part of the mid level pruning / job cuts ?
until im next on the chopping block.
MF Partner/MD here. Ignore the WSO label.
Am I purely happy from my professional life, not really. I’m pretty jaded actually. The job is pretty mature and uninteresting at this point. It’s basically investment banking 2.0. Not quite the 1980s/1990s romantic pirate deal making I imagined in my younger years.
When you’re junior, it’s the work hours and lack of control over your life that is soul crushing. As you get more senior, so much of the job becomes politics. There’s a lot of zero sumness (only so much carry to go around) and there’s a big prize on offer, so unsurprisingly people play every angle to secure said prize. Especially at the MF level, the difference in playing the game at a B vs. B+ vs. A- vs. A level is MASSIVE. At a place like Apollo/Blackstone, the half letter grade distinction is the difference between being a Partner that gets pushed out (Stan Parker), that’s still cashing checks (Reed Rayman), that’s a rising star (Martin Brand), that’s basically running the place (Scott Kleinman) or that is a fucking billionaire (Michael Che, David Blitzer). It’s a dog eat dog world and it will run you over the second you take your eye off the ball.
It’s really hard to hold that intensity in your hand without it completely consuming you. It’s the black symbiote Spider Man. I’ve seen enough personalities growing up in the industry that were conventionally successful super stars but were completely miserable and failures at everything outside of work.
The trick is to, over time, diversify where you derive meaning and satisfaction in life. I make pretty good money, have a real spouse (vs. a UES pilates/gala bimbo), give my family a great life, can do/buy cool stuff, and am senior enough to be able to spend meaningful time with my wife/kids. That’s where I choose to get >50% of my life satisfaction now. I haven’t had a “FUCK it’s good to be alive” moment at work since the time I landed multiple MF Associate offers as a banking analyst and surreally stared at my reflection in a Lenny’s Deli window. Meanwhile I have dozens of those a week at home with my wife and kids. Maybe that’s more of a me thing — I don’t know. Plenty of my peers pride themselves on having low latency email response time and being available at a moments notice for waste of time science projects and boondoggle trips that will get them political currency.
The reality is that work is not going to make any of you happy. No matter how much you feed it. You have to focus on making healthy choices in other areas of life. That means having good “hygiene” and “nutrition” literally by taking care of yourself and figuratively by taking care of relationships (friends and family).
The job at the highest levels is all consuming and it will eat everything if you let it. Draw some boundaries and don’t get desensitized to the madness. Be mindful of when you make a tradeoff and feel terrible about it, don’t let that be the first of many. Make that the last time. This is a greedy business. It will take whatever isn’t nailed down. So nail down the things you think will make you happy. Hint: it’s not an AP Royal Oak.
Maybe you’re a David Blitzer and this doesn’t apply to you. You’re on autopilot to run down every lead, boil every ocean, and do it at scale. If that’s the case, you’re probably not worried about whether this job will make you happy.
Incredible response and thank you for sharing your perspective, especially as a seasoned professional in the industry. To some extent I am entirely fine with letting the job consume me if it means that the financial reward is there. I firmly believe that given circumstances this is the most efficient use of my time right now.The only nagging issue is I have a feeling that the financial upside will never materialize or at least will be severely discounted vs what I was sold on given current industry dynamics (well covered on all topics on this site), to the point it doesn’t make sense any more. What is your view on that? Do you think the industry will turn a corner? Or structurally indeed the proposition for juniors is worse and hence one should not look at past trajectories for guidance.
Your last question is the easiest to answer: you should absolutely NOT look at historical earnings of those seats as a proxy for what can be made now.
The industry will continue to mature. The long arc of returns will continue to come in. The fee rates and economics tied to those returns will go down. The corporate culture of compensation in the industry will moderate as well. So you’ve got 3 different detractors coming together at once. The flip side is, things are VERY slow moving.
The asset class is now fully mature and AUM is still growing. Returns will structurally compress.
The industry has continued to transition from being a small club of private partnerships where the investment teams swam the backstroke in Olympic swimming pools filled with cash to institutionalized firms with global footprints, HR departments, public shareholders, GP stake shareholders, etc. It is and will continue to shift from a “lets all get fucking rich together” mentality to the IBD type comp model where the “man” is solving for: (1) messaging sure this is what you ‘contributed’, but how much of that was because of the firm/name on your business card vs. you, and (2) what’s the bare minimum we can get away with paying you without you throwing a hissy fit and/or leaving? At least in banking people understand what a grind it is. While in PE, senior folks are still in the “you should feel lucky to be here” mentality.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s still a very lucrative career track. Probably the most lucrative career track out there on a risk adjusted basis. HF isn’t very under writable because of the dispersion. Medicine/law etc is relatively modest in comparison. Show business/sports are tied to genetic lottery tickets.
I would say the all-in mentality is the right one when you’re young. As you progress, that mentality is a far greater cost and you run the risk of being on the wrong side of Bezos’ regret minimization framework.
Wow great response - people would be lucky to have you as a mentor
Really great post. I’m a banking A2A (something I never imagined myself becoming) and at one point hated this is where I’ve gotten to, but over time realised the job pays really well and allows me just enough time to have a rewarding personal life with loved ones. So essentially, this idea I had of tech startups/entrepreneurship etc I realised will never make me as happy as just being around family/friends, going to the gym, fun trips abroad, etc.
With that in mind, I still want to optimise my career to make enough earnings so that I can support my family and enjoy my life. Banking is ok for this for now, but wondering if you have any suggestions for the juniors in finance, given as you mentioned pretty difficult headwinds in the buyside? Is it now potentially more attractive just to grind it out in banking given PE is as much if not more of a minefield?
Edit: I noticed your other commented about doing CS… this is a well worn debate on this forum. Certainly has its own challenges given cost cutting and I personally think not everyone is minded for technical fields such as this
Edit 2:I noticed your other commented that you would advice your own kids not to do something grubbing for money. I think growing up in lesser means like yourself, you are almost hardwired to think it is the solution to everything and even now I can’t get away from it. Your kids have the benefit of you as a provider and so they CAN do something noble. Would you truly say that you would pick a different path with the benefit of hindsight? Or maybe it is about knowing the threshold of wealthy to cross before venturing into noble pursuits?
The “headwinds” in PE are all relative. The guys that work at my firm that were partners when I was a banking analyst are now worth multiple hundreds of millions of dollars. They have $30-50m townhouses, similar price point Hampton houses etc. That’s not really the PE outcome of my generation. Maybe discount it by a factor of 3-5 now. While my outcome may not be illustrative for your generation, it might be 10-30% lower (made up #). And/or much harder to attain given lower conversion rates to get promoted through the ranks. That said, if you get it, it will still be pretty fucking good.
Banking has gotten far better than when I was in your shoes. For one, they’ve realized they can’t work you like complete slave labor. That’s moderated for sure. Second, they got fed up with losing so much talent to the buy side and jacked up jr banker comp quite a bit. The obvious reasons to move to PE from IB were more money and less work, that’s still the case, but the delta isn’t less dramatic.
Banking is a pretty good career track now. It’s still a sales job, so you need to be good at it. You have to enjoy the people aspect and you also need to have a ton of hustle.
Buyside comp is basically top tier banking comp with the added sweetener of a boatload of cash via carry. A partner at my firm makes several MM bucks a year in cash comp, probably on par with a pretty good senior banker, but then also has a sizable carry pool in the background. You can go on Heidrick and look up what that could be. It’s substantial 8-digits taxed at capital gains. You can haircut it and it’s still a lot of money.
I say CS because I have an Ug degree in it and it came very naturally to me. I would venture to guess I would have the technical aptitude for high level SWE/AI research if I had devoted my life to it. I agree that’s not the right answer for most people.
So much of this resonates - thanks for sharing. Although my Royal Oak and I feel attacked.
would you go down this path if you were in your mid 20s in 2025?
GOAT comment here, really appreciate for your insights! May I ask further for your opinion in PE IR? Considering the market as a mature one but growing in AUM, do you see more potentials in the IR side if feeling tired of endless political show and rat race game? Thanks again and wish you enjoy your life!
I would love an UES pilates/gala bimbo
VPs are contractually forbidden from enjoying their lives. Industry standard.
Lmfao we all hate our decisions to go down this path. To boot, I'd wager to bet very few of us have the millions we envisioned by now. I'm so far away from what I thought would be limitless wealth, trips, boats, cars, and ritzy apartments. And I'm exhausted. And my dating life is still one night stands on the odd weekend I have time to go out. And I gotta go to Turkey to replace all the hair I've lost.
Is it nice making $500k+ a year? sure. Do I feel like I've made it or am anything special...absolutely not. Where the fuck is my carry?!
You’re delusional if you think as a VP you’d have real carry. It’s a job that compounds and you make big buck's when you can stay at a fund for 10-15 yrs not when you’re 31
I think he’s referring to the fact that all the carry he was already granted is likely meaningfully underwater. So to have gotten ~$5-7m life of fund carry is the first real money this guy has “made” in his career so far. He’s in GE, so a lot of that carry may be tied to 21/22 vintage deals that are upside down.
I have an exceptional gig. But I guess the responses here show you how rare it is and how much luck is involved. The carry is actually about to hit because we got very lucky with a set of investments that were in average hit hard by COVID and have boomed since so through a combination of cheap purchase price and recaps we’re over 1 DPI already. And I can’t speak for others but my personal life is fulfilling and appearance has not suffered from the stress.
Can we get an rough range of your carry payouts
Ask me here in 2 years to see what really really happened
This thread makes staying in banking more attractive lmao
Yeah, if you’re good at it.
Banking is classically all about salesmanship, client service, and charm.
What’s interesting about banking today is it’s primarily dominated by South Asian immigrants and many of the bankers I meet are not particularly charming or good at the sales aspect of the job.
But they’ve entirely made up for it with intellectual horsepower, doggedness, and an ungodly devotion to client service (weekend work, immediate/always-on availability, always going above and beyond what was asked).
They are absolute animals and get after a not particular interesting or inspiring pursuit with an intensity that only first generation immigrants would.
Good luck playing that game.
They’re smart, dedicated, dogged and will outwork/outplay you even if there’s a miniscule prize on offer.
Is that that much worse than PE though? PE competition for winning bids isn’t a walk in the park and there are (naturally) absolute dogs out there
You basically just described Naveen Nataraj lmao. A big downside is the increased in hospitalization for juniors from overworking, which Evercore Tech is well known for.
One of the reasons I left banking is because I didn't want to be a salesman. Now I'm in PE. It looks like being a partner at a PE firm is even more salesy--both internally and externally. Given how abundant capital is, you really need to sell the owner of a company that you are the right buyer. And then internally (and maybe this is just my firm) it feels like none of the partners are honest with one another and they all just try to sell one another on how good a deal will be and then how well a deal is going (even when its not going well).
VP at UMM fund. Nope def not happy, starting to seriously explore leaving the industry. I'm ok with working hard / putting in the hours but it's tough when 1) it's completely unpredictable, 2) majority of the asks are not value-additive but come with time pressure. I look ahead at the more senior people and it doesn't get any better. There's probably room for me to stay and get promoted but it's just not something that I want anymore
While I definitely have more free time than my associate days, it's often not enough / predictable enough to pursue real hobbies or interests outside of work. Sure I get to go to nice dinners with my partner and go on weekend trips but it's very much become grit your teeth and get through the week just to enjoy ~48 hours of freedom on the weekend
The money is nice but not getting meaningful carry any time soon. I look at some of my peers in other industries who are excited to go to work and are always doing interesting things outside of work while I'm stuck asking associates why numbers don't tie (and it won't even matter anyways). Sure my NW is higher but on a day to day basis, it's not meaningfully improving my life
what're you considering leaving to?
The ultimate question lol. Have been exploring early stage tech startups as the first business / finance hire. Risk-adjusted comp is obviously much different than PE but I would like to build something and scratch that entrepreneurial itch. Have realized that coming from a VP seat (vs. associate) is a much bigger hurdle in convincing folks that you're the right profile / cultural fit for a startup
Realistically, and depending on how quickly I decide I need to leave, would also look at typical strat fin / corp dev seats at later stage companies
Life in PE at all levels is 100% dependent on the performance of your portfolio. If the portfolio is doing well, PE is maybe the best job on Earth. If it is doing medium, PE is fine. If it is burning, PE is hell.
A large happy PE paradise is a false brand for the industry based on a long bull market in asset valuations.
Depending on the company, some VPs prefer autonomy and balance, while others feel obligated to deals and deadlines all the time.
Excellent question. I'm interested in learning how vice presidents handle work-life balance and whether the position entails greater freedom or simply more responsibility.
Not sure what specific role you are asking about but I’ll give my attempt at a genuine take.
MD at a very large fund, have been here for 10+ years. Did standard IB and MM PE prior.
I am generally happy and find the work quite interesting. I still get excited about unique investment opportunities and chasing a deal. The work gets more interesting the more senior you get, IMHO.
On the flip side, the more senior you get the less ability you have to actually unplug. When I was an analyst / associate / VP I could take a week off for vacation and actually ignore everything / someone would cover for me. Now there is no one to cover for me so there are always “critical” calls I need to take, decisions that have to be made, etc. When you are married with kids that can put pressure on your family life, but I try to maintain a balance as much as I can.
Overall I think the sacrifices are worth it - it’s an interesting, fulfilling career that pays a lot better than almost anything else. Key is you make sacrifices in both directions once you have enough equity built up to do so… in other words don’t only sacrifice your family life, fitness, friendships for your job. Be willing to sacrifice a little in your work life for your personal life and you will be better for it. Frankly though that’s much easier said than done and I had a hard time doing it myself before I got to the ~principal level.
What on earth is going on with all these soft VPs…? I’m a VP at MF and my life is great and I’m so happy. I absolutely GRINDED from analyst to VP, and now my job is so chill relative the grunt days. I’m genuinely shocked so many are unhappy / depressed. I’m so de-sensitized to grinding since I’ve done it so much that now whenever I have to grind, it’s not a big deal. I like what I do and I also have great junior staff below me and generally good people above me. Yes, shit hits the fan sometimes, but bro we are making SO MUCH MONEY, we can put up with it. Maybe I’m just more motivated than others, but I’m chilling and so happy and my coworkers are great. If I won the lottery, would I quit tomorrow? Absolutely. Am I currently selling my soul. Absolutely not. Sorry to hear so many others aren’t doing well…I hope that changes and you can find enjoyment more outside of work / stop caring about your job just a little bit more!
I mean clearly your the outlier here lol - not a bad thing, great for you., but we are all playing in a game of trend analysis and the trend is pretty clear based on this thread.
I've never met a single VP / Principal at a MF in my ~12+ years now who has described their job and pay as "so chill" so that's great for you, you found a curveball outcome.
How is comp for you with that chill environment? What are we talking cash / carry wise?
worth calling out that you're on the real estate state, which (no hate, but) has different dynamics than on the corporate equity side. glad you're doing well but unfair to compare your experience to this side of the table
Yeah if you're in on the real estate side as the other poster called out, that's going to be a different experience vs corporate PE. Realize some MF RE PE teams grind you as well but there's a better chance of finding one that you can have some semblance of a life... I don't think MF corporate PE and 'chill' have ever been described in the same sentence together lol.
Depending on the team, some VPs manage to strike a balance, but many feel that they have little personal time due to their constant commitment to deals and client demands.
MD in specialised credit fund here - pretty happy yes. Interesting day job, good WLB, good comp particularly relative to other careers outside finance
I think WSO is very skewed towards IBD and PE folk - which is quite commoditised and a bit of a rat race, and with carry drying up in conventional PE the endgame doesn’t look as good
I know many mid to senior people in S&T, HF, AM space that are more specialised and enjoy their job / pretty happy in general - of course everyone always wants more, but it’s a 40-60hr work week, intellectually stimulating and you should be making 1-2m+ by your mid 30s. Obviously there is a trade off between specialising and getting pigeonholed but if you’re good at what you do and it’s not as crowded it’s easier to dictate terms and have autonomy
in what world is someone mid 30s making 1-2m+ outside of being at a hedge fund in a trading seat.. i would imagine principals at a MF (likely the title one would have in mid 30s) are maybe making 700-900k base + bonus, and the chances someone in AM / S&T is making more than them is v v v low
Not at all - if you’re on the sell side in trading you can easily make MD at lm30s. Trading MD typically making more than IBD MD who is typically making more than PE principal (obv PE will have carry to compensate, and trading MD will have a large part of their bonus deferred)
AM - again there are many types of seats in AM. Macro/credit PMs or even senior analysts at places like PIMCO do quite well
$1-$2m comp (which is a hilariously wide range) in your mid 30s is more of a right-tail outcome than "you should be making".. come on man
That’s fair re wide range although market facing roles do have wider outcomes based on the year you’ve had
I guess my point if you start in BB S&T at 21-22, by the time you’re 35 you’re likely an MD or senior director and that’s the range I see based on people from my S&T analyst batch. I don’t know MDs at BB who aren’t at least making 1m, I’d think IBD is similar but I have fewer data points. So I don’t think it’s that much of a tail outcome, people who generally were good to great at the job and stuck around have gotten to that point
This is anonymous. How much do you make?
2m
My point - post tax post deferral post co investments, your day to day life isn’t that different I think between 700k and 2m. I don’t usually post but felt sorry reading some of the posts so thought I would. It feels to me more than comp differences (within reason) having some enjoyment of the day job and having autonomy and control is critical for mental wellbeing. And the net comp is enough in your m30s whether in banking / markets / consulting / tech if you get to a senior spot.
You’ll get to an upper middle class lifestyle in a high COL city - you won’t feel rich but still have what many dream of. You’ll likely normalise the luxuries you get and it won’t be about marginal money anymore. Some will explore entrepreneurial avenues to expand that, some will hang around for the partner/senior mgmt gig, some will start coasting. You still need to wake up everyday and spend 12+ hrs dedicated to work so might as well enjoy it.
Life’s too short…
I think making 1-2m by your mid 30s is straight forward. You stay in banking or ST and are a junior MD. You go to PE and are a principal (700-1m cash plus carry). It’s a grind so there’s attrition but if you last you will.
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