Went from MBB to PE and hate it
So I was at MBB and always thought I'd rather want to be in finance. I was a econ/finance major in University and did a lot of PE projects while at MBB. Always found valuation and modelling super interesting. People told me that PE is tough but I brushed it off.
Now I am here and goddammit. Its like 10x worse than at MBB (which already was quiet hardo like in my region and vertical). VPs and above are so demanding. It is not that I can't do the work intellectually it is just way too much. I also pushed back on some weekend work (non-deal related) because I don't see why I should work the whole Sunday on something PortCo related and got immediately in trouble with some hardo ex banker guy.
Honestly it does not feel fun at all and the culture is so intense / non laid back while the pay itself is not even that great. It is higher than MBB but as I said not that much of a step up.
I feel like the poblem is that all of the ex bankers are way more pushovers and do literally everything that the MDs/VPs tell them whereas the MBB crowd tries to keep the lifestyle somewhat normal.
Just wondering if there is a way back to MBB or if I am cooked.
Assume this isn’t McKinsey eg you don’t have the standing offer to return?
Basically two options —
1) Hit up the people you worked with at MBB and catchup with them / tell them you are interested in coming back and see what they say
2) Go to a top MBA program and do on campus recruiting . Note that this is probably a better path just because it also gives you time to reflect and explore other shit (more on that in a moment).
Not sure how much you’ve seen, but consulting is quite cooked. Firms are literally pushing out partners and senior partners are leaving for industry. As much as people here like to write about PE being in the decline, there’s something to be said about the future of MBB too.
Also like, why do you want to go back to MBB? I get that you want to get out of PE, but why MBB specifically , why be a career consultant ? I ask this because as I say, it’s a tough time to be a career consultant. You might want to consider if a corporate strategy &ops type of gig is more your deal. Yes— getting an MBA can be helpful to make this transition but before dropping that money , if you go this route, I’d still encourage you to try and network and see if you can make the transition without the MBA.
Yes M. Honestly at this point just trying to figure out what makes somewhat sense and not so concerned about macro industry tailwinds or senior partners leaving. What I see in MBB is a few years of further cruising/taking some lighter studies/projects while clipping decent salary + tons of perks I don't have in corporate.
I also don't want to go back and churn out DDs.
Ya dude again… would talk to literally anyone you know at the Firm. Cruising isn’t really a thing right now unless you’re talking about doing it for 6 months until you get CTLed (which you can now get directly).
Really sounds like you’d be much better off in industry than consulting or PE. And I definitely don’t mean that as some sort of insult. Most likely, statistically speaking, that’s where a big chunk of PE associates end up anyways.
Take a peak at some of those recent threads on people who left PE— sounds like series C startup S&O jobs is where it’s at for you. I cannot confirm first hand the WLB, but have seen all in comp in the 200 range and am told through past processes they work 40-50 hours so worth a shot!
Honestly you already have the done stamp from MBB
Suck up 2 years of PE and get a top MBA
Then I’d think about search funds or climbing the ladder at a mid size company
Avoid large caps because there’s no such thing as promotions and they don’t need or want good people
Just get into a 50-100m firm as like sr manager or directory strategy and work your way up the business
So why don’t you reach out to your old firm…? That’s kind of the most obvious way back. Otherwise MBA probably
I'm not sure how this is perceived and honestly it's not that I loved it back there. Wonder if I just should stick out in PE to get some deals under my belt and then leverage that for something else.
Your initial question was can I get back to consulting or not. Answer is, you can only know by trying. So if you were well perceived and have some senior connections hit up some partner off the record and see what they think. What’s there to lose? Worst case they say no - that clarifies. Best case they say yes - job done.
I’m not going to get dragged into some existential free text debate about what job you should do next as it’s totally pointless. but good luck with your decision. Maybe ChatGPT can help (serious)
Lmao are you a first year associate pushing back on weekend work? You should probably quit yes
and not only, he prob has just months in the role
I work at a firm who hires a lot of MBB consultants (I came from banking) so I've seen this play out before hahaha you're not the only one. You guys really did have it good in MBB. If you can't fundamentally see yourself sticking with this sort of a work schedule for ~4+ years this is probably not for you. (pushing back on weekend work 12 months into the job is a no-no) The hours really don't get that much better as you move up.
The only people I see succeed are those who love the grind (psychopath) or those who love investing and are willing to stick it out.
It's not that bankers want to be pushovers- it's the only way to get promoted in IB/PE. FWIW some of the hardest grinders at my firm came from M so you might also just be soft (kidding).
It does get better for sure. Trust.
I'll take your word for it haha but some VPs at my firm definitely grind as hard as we do
Yes M itself is like hardo central for everything above EM. But at EM/below EM the tone / expectations was just ten times more normal. Like weekend work did almost never happen and if you worked it got appreciated (well "thanks for the push"). Here I realize that the bankers - most notably anyone from GS/MS/JPM - are completely off the charts psychopatic. Like just not normal. They would expect you to work till like 3-4 AM and being fresh in a call at 8.30. Also most normal thing in the world to work a Sunday 09.00 - 24.00.
I knew PE would not be easy but I'm also not at a megafund so I was not expecting that much of heat.
Yeah I don't fault you, FWIW I've been taken to new lows in PE I never knew possible even after 2 years at banking (not at a MF either). Good luck dude give it a year (but start recruiting on the side)
How long have you been there for? I spent 3 years at an UMM after 2 yrs in consulting. Felt like I was running around with my head cut off month 1-12, but got my feet under me in a big way months 12-36
Are you staying on as vp or leaving?
Lateraling (strategy/fundraising dynamics)
Anyone else love reading these posts of people getting the promised land of PE and hating life?
Makes me feel so smug and satisfied lol.
Director - IB reads PE Associates and it "makes him feel so smug and satisfied'
can someone please get a PE - Partner in here????
You think this is a sick own but it just reeks of insecurity
I’m so insecure for feeling schadenfreude.
Being a millionaire banker sucks!
I wish I was a multimillionaire PE principal!
this is more a reflection of how soft mbb is than pe/ibd
My best friend is at Bain, he was staffed on PE for 6 months and it was like banking without weekends (9am-midnight or later M-Th and then off by 6-8 on Friday, never weekend work). Now he's done with PEG and does normal corporate cases and it's a 9-8pm M-TH type of thing, off 5pm Fridays.
Lots of other friends in MBB have it way easier or worse depending on what cases they gravitate towards (partially by choice/partially by your staffer specifically at Bain). What I'm especially jealous of is their class size / collegiate nature / ability to live 6 months abroad / do a 6 month externship; they set you up for success where as banking just uses you.
I'm in IB and it's just always ass, I hate it and know from experience and friend's anecdotes it's just the same/similar hours but way more stress in PE. And it's unlikely to make you'll make it to senior levels, odds are fully stacked against you.
My plan is corporate and returning later perhaps later in life to PE as an operating advisor/partner. With your skills/personality/leadership/exposure from MBB + pedigree from PE you will be differentiated in corporate no doubt even if it comes with a short term pay cut.
You can shine more on that side of the industry because your colleagues haven't worked as hard / in as high stakes of an environment and have lower standards for themselves than what you're forced to in MBB/IB/PE - also from F500 to small/mid sized private companies, once you hit exec roles you have the potential for millions in equity, and side consulting gigs for thousands an hour.
The world is big and this industry is a small part of it. You don't need to commit to PE to make good money and have a good life, in fact many folks in PE would prob be jealous of corp execs for getting more $$ for a less intense job.
The big thing to keep in mind is that just because corporate doesn’t have the Ivy / MBB/ IB types doesn’t make it a walk in the park to get promoted… in some ways it makes it a lot harder. Think of the classic consulting cliche of where a 23 year old McKinsey analyst goes to give a 50 year Pepsi veteran advice… the McKinsey analyst doesn’t really respect the Pepsi guy because he’s not super smart in the same way as the McKinsey guy and doesn’t have fancy institutions, and the Pepsi guy doesn’t respect the Harvard guy because he’s 23.
Your mid 30s-40s boss who would never get interviewed at one of those fancy institutions isn’t going to give a fuck about where you’re from and might not respect you for being a lot younger than them.
It also can be a pain working for someone who you don’t see as very smart and going from constantly being pushed to experiencing little development .
Now when you’re in your late 20s, maybe you don’t really give a fuck about this stuff and think “hey if I stagnate at 150-250k in my career that would be more than enough so long as I can see my family,” which would be entirely fair, but I’m just saying — corporate (including startups here) isn’t some magical dream land either.
Stagnating at 150-250k and even middle management is not a good outcome for the corporate path, you can set your bar much higher than that
Soft
This feels like you didn't truly look before you leapt, which is unfortunately on you. I also don't think you have a true understanding of what you're even playing for - your pay may be somewhat "comparable" now, but the trajectory going forward will differ dramatically.
You can't make it in this industry without having a clear goal in mind (generating wealth in one of the best risk-adjusted manners possible with low upfront capital requirements) or a love for the game.
If you truly want to continue investing, why don't you look to lateral within the industry to roles that could have better W/L balance before quitting entirely (i.e. Private Credit, Family Offices, etc.)? I don't quite get the rationale to immediately shift back to MBB besides a visceral reaction to the workload - the people successful in those environments are extremely diligent as well.
I'm former MBB, have been in PE for 3+ years. Yes it's a much more challenging job with real responsibility, numbers and outcomes actually matter more, people are definitely smarter and the bar is higher. I think the "culture" you are describing is fairly common at any reputable MM shop over $1B that is competing for assets of a certain size. It's very hard to find a "lite" version of buyout PE.
But I also find the job much more interesting than consulting. Would rather work harder/longer in PE than go through some of the complete and utter nonsense that existed in consulting (at least when i was there).
So have you accustomized yourself to PE at this point? When did that happen?
I fully 100% agree with you. I can't stand most of consulting work (the countless of pages/word smithing on stuff I had zero clue about, knowing anyway I will be off the engagement two weeks later and doing something completely else) but I think the fact that the environment was so much less paced it made it overall worthwhile (probably the only job with high pay at young age while keeping somewhat of a sane schedule compared to PE and IB).
It's good Q. I think if you sacrifice for 1-1.5 years and prove yourself and find good pyramid of VP/Principal who actually realize you have some value (all of that can be hard to do, i'm not trivializing) --> you can start to carve out little more autonomy for yourself. It varies at each place. At MF with bad culture i'm sure it's not the case, I imagine you're indentured servant until Principal. But I'm at MM $2B fund and I feel like at least half a human being at this point. I can show up late / sneak out early if things aren't busy. Not being 100% micro managed. Can trail off on Friday afternoons. But flipside is when you're up to bat, you need to deliver. it's like baseball. And if the seniors don't think you're smart / don't respect you / dont think you can help them solve your problems, you likely won't get that autonomy. It's tough / tricky. Ultimately everyone is looking for that ability to slowly carve out more freedom as you move up.
Re: consulting, yes some of that stuff was excruciating for me too. I'm generally much more engaged in the work in PE. Feel like you learn much more about business as well, because you're sitting on top of the portco. Also I started consulting pre-covid and i was travelling 80% or more of the time. Would say my life was arguably worse back then. There's nothing more soul-crushing than a Monday 7AM flight to Pittsburgh to sit in a shitty conference room at corporate HQ all week. I don't even remember what my hours were but i was generally unhappy with that type of travel. I wouldn't even want to do it 50% of the time.
I’ve worked in both PE and corporate strategy, it doesn’t seem that easy to become director level ($250-400k) in corporate, and most directors work at least 40hrs many probably 50hrs or even close to 60hrs sometimes. Promotion to Director/have a salary past $250k in corporate is probably same difficulty as PE associate to VP
I have mentioned this before but MBB is shit training for PE (I am Ex-MBB fwiw)
Why do funds then hire so much (and even more and more) consultants? When I am checking my Linkedin these days (London) it feels like every other girlie from undergrad who went to Bain or BCG is now casually strolling over to a large cap fund (e.g., the Permiras, Advents, BainCaps of this world), while the most intense finance hardos who did not make it into a GS/JPM/MS are either not finding an exit or going downmarket to LMM/MM. I even know somebody who went to consulting with relatively modest finance knowledge who now has a offer from KKR.
The thing in the processes is that these firms give dedicated slots to consultant, alas, the banking analyst from LAZ/RTH does not compete in LBO modeling against the BCG consultant.
i'm a former consultant now in PE. admittedly my ex-banker colleagues are far better at modeling and excel efficiency than i am, but i'm much better at cdd and business acumen/intuitively knowing what makes a good business
I have a view on this - the reason you see MBB candidates in PE namely on the female / diversity side is if you hire an MBB they are going to be useless anyway for the first few years on the job. So you might as well hire a non-finance (and maybe diversity) with lots of potential so at least you can train them to eventually be good, rather than the MBB finance hardo who will still suck when they start PE
It depends - consultants make for better “investors”(in the loosest terms possible) because they’re more used to tackling ambiguous questions. Bankers are a bit more execution robots (read: can take orders but can’t really do anything for themselves). The flip side is ~70% of consultants that make the jump to PE find out they’re too soft for the job (don’t want to work late, work weekends, etc). The ideal candidate is the banker who was given opportunities to do more than just execute / think critically a bit on the job or the consultant who for whatever reason just happens to be a workhorse. Hard to filter for either profile but they both exist and both make for good long-term “investors”
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