Which NJ/Westchester town to live in for a role in midtown?
Hey Monkeys - long time poster looking for some advice. I'm in discussions for a role that I think I have a good shot at landing and, not to totally put the cart before the horse, wanted to start doing some research so as not to have to scramble last minute in case it goes through. I'm in the NE but not currently in the NY area, and the office here would be close to Grand Central. We don't want to live in the city for family purposes, so please pretend that UES/UWS, Park Slope, LIC etc. do not exist. Looking for a good family-friendly area (top-notch public schools, charming downtown areas with restaurants/bars, green space for the dog, etc.) with a tolerable commute via train to midtown in either NJ or Westchester. We'd rent at first to learn the area and probably buy 2-3yrs down the line. Also have family in PA playing into this calculus. These are my perceived pros/cons below, but please let me know what I'm missing here.
NJ: Summit, Montclair, Short Hills, Millburn, Morristown, Caldwell - any I'm missing?
Pros: great schools, closer (45-60mins) to family in PA, decent train into NYP
Cons: outrageous property taxes for when we buy (but worth it?), would have to hop on the subway from NYP to finish commute, have to file taxes in two states
Westchester: I don't know this area well at all, but Scarsdale, Rye, Larchmont, Mamaroneck all seem really nice? Definitely need suggestions here!
Pros: easier commute to Grand Central + walk to office, only file NY taxes, schools also look excellent
Cons: somehow looks even more expensive, farther from family, would probably be flying out of LGA instead of EWR if in NJ
What do you think bros? What's a realistic rent for a 3br/2ba (4br would be great but probably prohibitively expensive) - 4k/mo? 4.5k?
Morristown doesn't have great schools...
This is good to know, figured they were good as they have an "A" on niche but I presume you have more familiarity with the area. Knew a kid in college from Morristown and he was a moron so this checks out. Thanks!
I went to one...think I am the moron to whom you were referring!
Are you only open to public schools? Would eliminate some of your options if you are focused on public schools.
I mean the comp theoretically would be decent but the carry component hasn't been fleshed out yet, and then it would have to vest, etc. It will pay for my kids' college but don't think I'll have the bag to pay for K-12 private. Maybe HS? Also hard to stomach if already paying $20k+ in property taxes. Would love to hear your thoughts, though!
Is K-12 private for 2 kids really out of the budget even if you work in PE? (keeping age, compensation and carry timeline in mind, as you mentioned)
Purely from a commute optimization perspective -- which I understand may not be your primary consideration given the era of hybrid work -- I would strongly lean toward Westchester of the two. Have ridden both NJ Transit and Metro North pretty extensively and the frequency of major delays or breakdowns on the former is significantly higher. Also generally speaking you have to go further into NJ to get into the nicer areas whereas there are great spots 20-30 minutes outside the city in Westchester (and yes, they are the most expensive spots)
Also LGA is super nice now! They refurbished most of the major terminals during Covid. Still a bitch to get to from a public transit perspective, but it's a pretty affordable Uber from Midtown.
Would second this - I used to reverse commute into Westchester and it's not a bad train ride if you're close to Grand Central. Metro north is far more reliable than NJ transit. The drawback (as you noted) is the higher cost of most of the nicer towns (which has exploded post-COVID).
Most of the partners lived around there and sent their kids to public schools, which seemed top notch. Getting to/from LGA was somewhat of a pain (esp. if take-off/landing around rush hour) but if your office is in mid-town, I imagine a good chunk of your travel may start off from NYC for late morning / early afternoon flights to make an evening mgmt. team dinner. I also have to imagine that you'll get booked on whatever flights the partners are taking, which may end up being LGA regardless. Smaller point, but Delta hub > United hub too.
Appreciate the insight. Current home airport is an AA hub so this would be an adjustment!
Y'all are starting to convince me to lean that way. Aside from the towns I named, any specific recommendations if you know the area well? Or is it as simple as look at the metro north line and pick one that makes sense from a commute/financial perspective? Guessing all of the schools are great given the cost? Transport to the airport doesn't matter, will be uber/cabs 100% of the time.
Greenwich, Darien, Westport, New Canaan. All a bit farther out on Metro North, but all very nice. All public schools are good options except for Greenwich.
I grew up in the area, if I had my choice I'd probably take Mamaroneck, Larchmont, or maybe Chappaqua or Rye to stay in Westchester. I'm a big fan of Greenwich but the homes are more expensive than what you're getting (lower value). GHS is better than 90% of high schools in the US but is for sure less amazing than Darien/New Canaan/Staples.
Darien and New Canaan are WASP-y af and a majority of the people I've ever met from there have been at least mildly douchy. Westport is maybe the best combination of all but the commute will be too much of a grind for most to commute to NYC.
Add Chappaqua and Bronxville to the list. Chappaqua is a little further out, incredible public schools, decently expensive. Bronxville is closer, good public schools, very expensive.
My first and most important recommendation would be to stop saying “ya’ll” unless you’re Kenneth from 30 Rock.
(duplicate comment, removed)
A little farther and different type of commute, but very popular. Rumson fair haven in New Jersey. 50 min ferry to midtown/ wall street. Great public school and plenty of private options.
I'm NYC but have heard many good things about Rumson. It's a beach town and seems like a solid community as the ferry commuters all seem to know each other. Just have to be at a place in your career where it's OK to dip out before 5-6pm to catch the ferry time, which I think has become a lot more acceptable post-COVID anyways.
Gre up living in Rumson w/ Dad in industry, there are a few satalitte offices in nearby Red Bank so commute is pretty chill from there. Def a cool place to grow up
Bro I just googled this and it looks wild. Wife already thinks I'm a lunatic so taking a boat to work wouldn't even be off-brand. Looks nice too - full bar and wifi? What happens in shitty weather, you get guys puking on their suits or what? Does sound a little lengthy but appreciate you putting this option on my radar!
The culture of NJ and Westchester are very different. I prefer Westchester. Westchester is easier commute for you. Short Hills / Millburn schools are fantastic. Think the public schools in the westchester areas you're looking at are fantastic. Westchester areas you're looking at seem lovely and are good commute. Think Scarsdale and Rye are considered the same "level" and are similar distance to the city - i consider scarsdale more of a jewish community vs. Rye as less jewish, fwiw.
which area in and around NJ/Westchester has a greater population of asians (asian americans)
Pretty sure Scarsdale has a decent % but you can easily verify that with some Wikipedia searching.
There’s large Asian population in Millburn and Summit area. Not sure about Short Hill. But all three areas are next to each other.
Are you able to fly in and drive around these areas for a weekend? From Westchester originally - some towns are very nice but you can drive 10 minutes into the next town and it's suddenly not a great area. I'd drive around and have a meal or two in each town, walk the downtowns, etc.
Scarsdale is a very upscale area. Really easy commute, and very expensive because of it. But $4k won't even get you a 1 or 2 bedroom, we're talking $6k 3 bedroom at the very minimum for something small or kind of dumpy, close to $10k for a "nice" house in a charming area. I see a few in your price range in Yonkers, Portchester, Stamford etc... those wouldn't be my first choice.
I would look on the MetroNorth Harlem line, ending as far north as Katonah (70min to GC) which is a very cute downtown. Mount Kisco, Chappaqua, Armonk etc. I see a couple solid options in the $6-8k price range. All of those schools are pretty good. Some of the public schools in the southern part of Westchester aren't great though.
Also don't forget about HPN airport right in Westchester, very convenient for regional travel (FL, midwest, east coast).
Not sure if the $4k if a hard stop or just a guess at a number, but for a $4k 3/4 bedroom you are looking very far away if you want a nice area, good schools, decent house etc - talking 90+ minutes well into CT or up the Hudson. There are some great towns up there if open to that, but it's a pretty taxing commute.
Happy to answer any questions, I know the area well
Yeah I was gonna say… $4k doesn’t sound like it’d cover it very easily.
Keep in mind ppl aren’t exactly dying to rent out their beautiful homes to young finance Yups to beat the shit out of. You’ll probably see a bunch of places where some 96 year old that’s lived there for 50 years died in the master bedroom and the kids put it up for rent for whatever reason.
Youll prob spend $10k a month for a sub-par/mediocre 4br house… everyone knows the type of person/family renting in Scarsdale — renting for a year or 2 until you plop down &2-4m to buy a place… so you can afford it, there’s not much other options, and houses up for rent subject to a quality selection bias… doesn’t bode well for you.
Hands-down, Westchester.
The commute is clean, quick, reliable, and easy. Arriving into Grand Central Terminal is a great way to start the day--the main hall is historic and beautiful. The trains run late at night, although less frequently.
If you work in mid-town, you'll have the best possible commute, especially if you walk to/from GCT without a separate subway ride.
Rentals may or may not be harder to find, unless you rent an apartment in White Plains, where there are lots of new buildings. Living in White Plains can be good--some very nice neighborhoods, and lower property taxes, but you may not want to send your kids to the public schools.
Public schools are excellent in the expensive areas, like Scarsdale. However, some kids struggle with the intense competitive peer pressure--academics, clothes, cars, etc.
Good restaurants, good shopping, etc. Local public transportation is poor, so plan to drive everywhere.
Many options for your choice of house of worship.
Great weekend drives--nature, hiking, biking.
But isn't a place like UES extremely safe and family friendly, with direct access to anything you want, and like 10-15 minute walk (Lenox Hill) to Midtown? Is it price that's the problem?
Not OP, but issue with UES is schools (the NY public school lottery is ridiculous and requires a statistics degree to understand... and most NY public schools aren't great, + private schools cost $60k+) as well as space/price. A nice 3 bedroom will cost no less than $10k
Mostly comes down to not wanting to be in a city. We lived in our city through the riots, COVID shutdowns, etc. but moved to the upscale suburbs of our area about a year ago and don't think we could go back. Having a driveway, garage, basement, yard, functioning local government, zero QoL issues to speak of, etc. are too nice.
Princeton, NJ is a bit farther commute but a very nice town to live in with NYC professionals and has a great public school system
what are the best public schools in NJ?
ridgewood
Tenafly, Millburn/Short Hill, Summit, Livingston have best public non magnet schools in NJ other and Princeton which is far away
totally agree - little far though but worth it
How many people do you think commute in from there? Princeton just seems too far even if you were only coming in 2/week - it's just way too out there.
Would say at least 30% of the town commutes to NYC, increase it to 50% for the places right next to Princeton like West Windsor (Princeton Junction station is one of the busiest on the East Coast)
Man I'd love to live in Princeton but looks like it's ~60 minutes one-way on Amtrak. I just can't stomach that 5days/wk.
Westfield NJ has a lot of midtown commuters and the ones I know are very happy there, including w/ the public schools.
Also curious why no CT, I'll guess Greenwich too expensive but I know some Stamford commuters who like it. Though they don't have kids so can't vouch for schools.
The downtown area of Stamford is surprisingly unsafe and the schools are terrible
If you live right near the Greenwich border and send your kids to Greenwich private school, it's not a bad idea. The houses trade at a real discount to Greenwich or other parts of Fairfield County because of the schools and town. With no kids it definitely makes sense
Ct person here/ Stamford is not in the same league at all as the other towns mentioned. I would not raise my child or live in Stamford but I'd gladly live the in westchester towns mentioned. Plus the Stamford commute into the city is about an hour to Grand Central while the Westchester commute is half that.
Will definitely take a look at Westfield (thanks!) but seems like Westchester is the overwhelming favorite here for this type of commute. Looked at CT but combination of time to GC + distance from family makes it tougher to swallow.
East Brunswick NJ is a good town. I grew up there, good schools, they are building a new High School there. Tons of my classmates went to top colleges and are doing banking and PE at BBs and MFs. A lot of towns in Middlesex county have great schools too. Monroe, Old Bridge, Woodbridge etc.
East Brunswick is right next to New Brunswick and Rutgers, 10-15 minute drive to get there. Nice downtown area really up and coming, with lots of new development
There is a terminal in EB that goes directly to the port authority, takes 40-45 minutes to get to midtown, however, it's kind of far from GCT
I went to college in CT but I think driving into the city from CT, taking the train or the bus was more of a pain in the ass than doing it from NJ. I don't know anything about NY but I hear Long Island is a really great place for schools and whatnot
East Brunswick and most of that area is an armpit of strip malls and isn’t even remotely comparable to any of the other towns listed here.
if your answer is this, then your view on NJ is pretty small.
EB is not in the same league as the towns listed
Lived in EB my entire life and although it has its problems (Route 18) the town and Middlesex County as a whole ain't that bad. The commute though is something to consider since it is an hour commute to city.
I believe Central Jersey has some gems if you want to raise a family with good school districts and community engagement. Sure it's not North Jersey, but I would definitely consider moving back to Central Jersey after living in the city for a couple years.
Princeton Nj
Only con is the commute to NYC
My vote - and I'm local to the area/ would always be Rye or Mamaroneck. I have a family as well and wouldn't mind sending my kid to those schools or living in those area. Mamaroneck top choice as it's significantly more affordable than Rye. I take the metro north in all the time and it's 30 mins from mamaroneck to grand central/midtown. Not a bad commute. Larchmont is Mamaroneck FYI.
Interesting - what would make you pick those over something like Scarsdale or Bronxville? I have zero idea what the "feel" of each is like at this point. Also what's the deal with the towns on the river like Dobbs Ferry, Tarrytown, Hasting on Hudson, etc. or a little more inland like Ardsley? They worth considering or no?
I go to high school in Westchester. Don't know too much about the other towns you mentioned, but Dobbs HS has a huge drug culture I know. More so than other schools
I go on drives often through hudson river towns when I'm on my way to seven lakes drive to rip it. Whenever I've stopped at dobbs or tarrytown etc, I can't help but feel sleepy and sad. They're super low energy and boring to me.
Depends on what you want:
* Shortest commute will be Westchester but you will pay for it every step of the way. Housing, taxes, food prices, energy...everything costs more.
* Longer commute but lower prices and more access to the rest of the region is NJ.
Westchester & Scarsdale are pretty well covered up above so I'll add these points on Jersey:
* Seems like you're only looking at the Raritan Valley NJT line. Look at all the lines on the NJT rail map and the towns along them.
* North Jersey has a large amount of folks who commute in to NYC.
* Central Jersey isn't bad: Westfield, Cranford, Maplewood, Clark, Garwood, are decent
* Also check out Rumson / Atlantic Highlands for a ferry commute.
* Avoid the bus lines, trains are much better. Also avoid driving.
I'd personally lean towards Hastings on Hudson area if I had a choice but to each their own
Sleeper pick, but northern/eastern queens are also great options. Whitestone/Little Neck/Bayside/the entire Northern Queens area have perhaps the best public K-8 schools in all of NYC without the zonal issues/lottery system of Manhattan as these schools are all zoned by neighborhood. Commute wise, most people I know take the LIRR (little neck area)/express buses which cost 5.50 to ride but only take roughly 40 minutes or so. Overall super nice and very safe neighborhoods if you want to entertain it and basically the only true suburbs in NYC.
As for the living in NJ/working in NY tax situation - if you file your NY state tax return first, you can receive a tax credit for your NJ state return so you don’t have pay double state income tax. I believe NY/NJ have a reciprocal tax agreement.
+1 but FWIW, double taxation is illegal in the US as of a few years ago. Any state now has to give you a credit for tax paid in another state, no reciprocal tax agreements required
I've seen it thrown out there a few times, but Fairfield County CT (New Canaan / Darien / Westport) is bar none the best place to raise a family in the country, IMHO. You have the same upscale feel as Westchester, but with better (public AKA free) schools. Additionally, these small CT towns have a better sense of community than the Westchester ones, if that matters for you. It definitely matters for the kids. Seriously, I mean in the summer you can let your 12 year old kids run around downtown unsupervised at 11pm and not have a worry in the world about their safety, it's that clean. The commute is a little bit longer, but really isn’t a big deal. I grew up in Ffld Cty and my dad has been commuting into grand central for 30 years. Hop on the 6:30 am train going in, grab the 6:11 coming home, step in the door by 7:30
How are suburbs in Long Island? Thinking along the lines of Great Neck, Manhasset, Port Washington that are closer to the city.
I was about to say the same thing, you should consider Long Island. There are definitely lots of options there!
Depends on what community you're looking for. Manhasset is exceptionally expensive compared to NJ. Great Neck / Port Wash is historically very jewish. It also SUCKS commuting into penn station (albeit east side access could change that)
Please disregard the multiple comments.
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Commute in 4 days a week by train. It’s about an hour door to door taking the port line.
Grew up in NJ around the towns you mentioned. Tons of commuters and definitely doable but NJ transit to NYP could get annoying if you're in midtown. I’m not from Summit but they have a great downtown, direct line into city, public school/sports are elite. Could be a spot I see myself going with a family later in life. Could also check out Basking Ridge, Westfield, Chatham - seems like places you’d be interested in. Also closer to you’re family in PA.
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