Big 4 Tax to CRE
I appreciate any advice in advance.
I am straight out of undergrad and took a position at Big 4 as a Staff Accountant on the RE team. My personal goal is to have my own RE portfolio and am looking for a job that will complement that. I realized that I don't want to be an accountant forever and would prefer something with more Real Estate and less FASB codifications. My question is how feasible is it to move into AM/Acquisitions? How long should I wait until I lateral, 1yr? Also should I try to get the CPA if I know I don't want to be in public accounting anymore? Will it affect my job prospects by a considerable degree?
You’ll be pretty well set up for an AM/controller role after 1-2 years.
CPA could be useful but def not necessary.
Wouldn't being a controller just mean more accounting? I'm over reviewing LP tax returns and REIT testing.
What kind of RE job are you looking for, specifically? You’re so early in your career that you should be able to make the change. But the RE role determines how long the transition might take. I started out in Big 4 audit and now work in REPE acquisitions without an MBA.
I want to deal with multifamily and stay physically in the Bay Area for the foreseeable future. Positions that interest me are AM/Acquisitions/Lending as all of these are transferable skills that would help me with my own portfolio in the future. I realize that Acq is the most difficult to get so I have no issue using another job as a stepping stone into that. If the stepping stone is something I like I would probably stay there for awhile. I'm not really sure yet and have just been setting up informational interviews with people in all the different positions.
Start networking (LinkedIn, recruiters, alumni) and applying for analyst roles. Getting a CPA won’t help you. I suggest you use your time to improve your modeling skills - there are plenty of practice tests in here that you can use. AM is probably your best bet for your long term goal. Good luck!
Are you on the assurance team or the transaction advisory group? I started my career in Big 4 on their RE advisory team, supported assurance team when they would audit RE client's valuations, whether they were quarterly / annual appraisals or new transactions. Was a nice place to learn the basic fundamentals of lots of different asset types; left after 2 years as most in my network advised you don't want to stay in that supporting / appraisal background for too long or it can be harder to pivot to a place closer to the deal / asset.
My overarching advice would be the sooner you can get out of Big 4 and into a truly real estate focused company, whether that be acquisitions, AM, lending, or even appraisals, the better.
How long do you advise I stay? Busy season lasts until 10/15 and I prefer to help finish it out and leave a good impression. My career mentor advised I stay at least 6 months.
That would be the easy out. But in reality I was able to get a lot of “looks” from groups. I think the bigger issue was I wasn’t ready from a social skills and maturity perspective, and then lack of real knowledge around real estate was sort of the kicker. I didn’t bring much to the table.
it sounds like you already have some understanding of RE basics. If you can become a master at modeling there is always a need for top tier analysts who can quickly and accurately churn through underwriting. That gets your foot in the door to learn for a couple years and then you go from there. As a junior employee my accounting background was an asset. My team had a lot of trust in me to build out pro formas correctly. The work I review now, some of our analysts have no attention to detail, they hardcore shit in models instead taking the time to build out dynamic inputs and formulas…it’s a pain in the ass when you try to flex the model and realize it’s a static model because the analyst was too lazy and or didn’t understand how to use excel effectively.
regarding investment sales, I’ve loved it. The hours from big 4 busy season never scared me. Have probably worked more hours more consistently the past two years just due to the pace of the market. The problem with big 4 was, like you, I wanted to be working long hours learning skills that I would want to use someday. Investment sales has satisfied that for me. Yeah it can be overwhelming when you’ve got 5 deals on your plate and then another BOV request comes in. But at the end of the day it’s another opportunity to critically think about real estate and build the skills and confidence to do my own thing one day. My day job helps move me toward my dream job…that was not the case in accounting.
Busy season, that brings me back. Yes, I'd advise at least 6 months, getting to a year and then starting to recruit elsewhere would be ideal - but you can't control when opportunities arise. I think sticking it out through busy season hours will show prospective future employers that you can handle those hours (although they aren't really that long on a relative basis) and that you have some sense of loyalty to a firm. Not that it matters a ton at your experience level but just my 2 cents.
I guess I'm talking in circles - once you free up more after busy season, start getting a feel for what's out there. Good luck
I can relate to this. I started out in big 4 audit. Did it for a couple years and realized it wasn’t the career for me. Moved over to a bank still in an accounting role but supporting RE related groups. I had hoped to leverage that into a more front office role but was unable to get traction. Ended up going back to grad school and used that to pivot to investment sales. 100% happy with the outcome, only regret is not going back to school sooner. Not saying you can’t get where you want to go without grad school but something to think about if you don’t get some quick traction. Can’t put into words how much better RE is as an industry compared to accounting. I just dropped my CPA because the CPE was too burdensome and unrelated to anything I’m doing and don’t see going back to it.
Do you think it was more difficult for you to pivot because you spent couple years in Big4 and was labeled an auditor? How has investment sales been treating you?
I started out in Big 4 tax and successfully transitioned to REPE. I spent a little over a year in Big 4, then pivoted to a RE firm on the debt side to gain RE experience, then ultimately used that experience to get to REPE
It may take a stepping stone job like I had to do, but it’s definitely possible
What advice would you have given yourself back then? How are you enjoying your career now?
I could not be happier with where I am today. It took a little longer to get where I’m currently at compared to my peers, but that’s OK. I’m also now earning more than 2x than what I would’ve if i stayed on the Big 4 tax path.
When I made the lateral jump from Big 4 tax to the real estate debt side, I took another very entry level and low paying position to get my foot in the door.
My advice is to be patient and to prepare. By prepare, I mean dont wait until you have an interview schedule to start learning RE terms and modeling. Start now - there’s plenty of online resources (Just Kivel is phenomenal). Opportunities will come up, and when they do you’ll be ready
So, here are my thoughts comments to add, seems like you have already gotten some good advice..
- This kind of move is very much a "jump", meaning you are jumping pretty far from your current role/expertise into something new. The good news is that this happens in CRE often and this type of experience is valued, especially in Asset Management but that is not a limiting condition. Jumps take a lot of time/effort/intention to make happen, and frankly it often means 'coasting' or even underperforming at the current role. That is one risk, but clearly each person can control that.
I see you as having/debating two options...
- Option 1 - Go Now - This would be starting to look now or soon with the intention of leaving at the 1yr mark. This will effectively be a career "restart", meaning you will be seeking entry level positions in CRE and will come in on the same footing of "brand new" people for the most part. The year of exp more or less just adds to 'maturity' (this is actually a very good thing), but the comp package and roles/responsibilities are likely to be same as brand new. The year at Big 4 will be minor 'stint' and have little value on future resume stuff, and this will probably totally remove you from that world. If you really can't imagine a second year at a Big 4, and don't want to be an "accounting/audit" expert... then no risk in this option, it is probably optimal.
- Option 2 - Establish at current firm, then go - Here you would wait 3-5 years before attempting to leave and would be aiming for cross-over in seniority (aka 'lateral') or maybe minor downshift and possibly a promotion (strange as it sounds, sometimes easier up than any other direction, very YMMV on how you interview and present). You will have the expertise and 'stamp' of having been a Big 4 person, and you will retain some 'expertise' of such in your CRE career, and this can help you overall advance quicker in the right spots. (Note, if you can get CPA in this time, do it, it's not the most valuable nor needed credential, but it 100% is respected and good). You may want to pair this option with grad school for more of an 'acceleration' (with extra time/costs, but this is literally the profile of a lot of MBA and MSRE candidates), but that is if you want to aim for 'top tier' names, not a requirement. Clearly, you have like/want to keep doing what you are doing, with CRE as a long-term career goal. To note, I know several people who are very high up at firms who did this route (several years in accounting, often got CPA, now CFO or CIO or similar at buyside CRE firm).
That is a very simplified way to view it, I can't really say one route is better than the other. Just what is personally optimal and desired.
Ex-CPA here. Doesn't hurt to get CPA always just a resume thing. I stayed 1.5 years and recommend looking for jobs you can jump to ASAP. Ended up switching into LevFin at analyst level (this is a career restart so take whatever you can get) but wish I did it sooner.
How do you like your current job? How has the CPA helped you in your job/career so far?
I made the switch from B4 tax to M&A at a low tier BB. I will say having the CPA exams passed was a massive reason I was able to make the switch, but modeling does require accounting knowledge so makes sense why they would value it. Apply to places early and often. No reason to wait around in big four
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