Is Hurricane Helene the buying opportunity of the century?
Do I drop everything and buy up houses in Asheville, NC? Asheville is inland, so it hasn't generally been affected by natural disasters. I have to assume Asheville is back to business in the next few years. Is this a massive buying opportunity? What is the data on house prices + hurricanes?
Based on the most helpful WSO content, here are some insights related to your question:
Impact of Natural Disasters on Real Estate:
Asheville, NC:
House Prices and Hurricanes:
Considerations:
In summary, while Asheville's inland location and potential for recovery make it an attractive investment, it is essential to consider the broader market dynamics and ethical implications. For specific data on house prices and hurricanes, further research and local market analysis would be necessary.
Sources: Opportunities in the wake of Harvey, Homebuying For Dummies (2023) | The Daily Peel | 2/7/23, A Bull Trap? | The Daily Peel | 5/11/22, Falling Prices = Rising Affordability | The Daily Peel | 12/12/22, Spooking the Market | The Daily Peel | 3/23/23
This is an incredibly distasteful post lol
That's fair. I deleted the Reddit post after hundreds of commenters said the same thing and a few wanted to fight me. I don't think it is such an evil question though. I'm sure some people will want to sell/move. They can't sell if there are no buyers.
It’s not evil or anything it’s just kind of tone deaf considering the situation
I'm not sure how providing liquidity to people who want to walk away is a terrible thing.
I guess getting your house flooded and being unable to sell to someone even though you don't want to come back is somehow preferable????
Which forum are we on?
This is WSO.
I disagree with the comment above. Business is business. It's fair to ask this question, especially on a finance forum.
100%. You have any thoughts on the question? Good opportunity to buy in Asheville? Or too much risk for little profit?
No thoughts from me, I'm just as curious as you are.
I don’t know if there is really any empirical data on buying right after natural disasters but everyone I know who bought beach houses in the Hamptons after Hurricane Sandy is up big. However, I’d probably say there are a lot of other factors at play there other than a short-term pullback from a hurricane. Housing markets in general are up big time since then and wealth inequality has gotten worse, so I’m not too surprised to see vacation home destinations for the ultra rich skyrocketing over that period of time.
Interesting. Someone on Reddit told me investors snapped up super cheap properties on the Jersey Shore after Hurricane Sandy and made tons of money too. Makes sense there are more factors at play than the hurricane.
Hurricane Sandy happened basically at the bottom of the real estate market.
OP taking his business plan from Twister.
Haha never seen it. Sounds like those guys were onto something.
I don't know if this is a troll post or to get attention or why. You should probably investigate the area, know the location, and know what was destroyed. Asheville is a well-known retirement community, among other things, they are established and pretty well off in these areas. The areas that were severely damaged by the flooding were commercial in nature, but most were historic (Biltmore District) or the arts district. People have owned and operated for generations, and usually, these types of areas have a couple of prominent landlords mixed into the family shops. People are not going just to sell. A lot of the galleries are leased out to a couple big landlords. So you can go try, but it seems with this post and not knowing the area, you think you can swoop in and pick up property cheap, you'd most likely fail and be outbid by others in the area. Now, you could go up into the mountains as many people owned rentals, and those areas were destroyed, but good luck if you aren't a local. Have spent time out there and tell you you might run into some bad trouble. They are even warning the Ashville and Highlands residents to stay away from their land up there.
Not a troll post. Genuine question. I've invested in areas I've never been, but had people living there I trusted. I was curious if there were angles here. I'm sure it wouldn't take me too long to figure out the area by flying up and talking to people. I appreciate the insight.
I’m just going to come out and say that buying a couple destroyed homes in Asheville, NC is not the best real estate opportunity since 1924 or even 2000, depending on the timeframe in question.
My thought process was to buy non destroyed houses. Thought there was an angle there. Assumed house prices got crushed across the board after a hurricane. Obviously, I have no idea. If a hurricane destroyed most of my city, I'd probably be selling and moving somewhere else.
Theoretically home prices for existing home should go up since there is a sudden unexpected supply constraint.
And where do you live? Hurricanes routinely blow through lots of dense urban areas, which remain strong markets... anywhere in the Southeast. Hell, NYC. Just seems like a thoughtless comment in the sense that recent history empirically disproves it
So, you mean the few people who still have their homes are suddenly going to be down to leave their home, when there's a lot less homes available to buy? Why would they choose to leave if the place they live is still intact?
Seems like you thought of this question without considering how things are actually playing out on the ground and in people's minds right now.
Asheville housing was expensive compared to income levels before this disaster. Asheville has always been a town where the real estate was driven by out of town money, but things ran up a lot during covid. It's a geographically constrained town, with the Biltmore estate taking up a ton of space in the middle. Driving from Arden to downtown feels like a big city commute. The point being, it's better to be a local sharpshooter there.
The area by the river was in a known and much-discussed flood zone. Previously, it had a race track and a bunch of industrial buildings. First, they got rid of the noisy race track (which hacked a bunch of local mountain people off). Then, the cheap industrial buildings on the river brought in the small artists and breweries, which brought in the big breweries and development. Everyone talked about the risk while the development was occurring.
Interesting. So you don't think there is some sort of real estate play here after the disaster?
Count me as a member of the world's largest club, the coulda shoulda woulda club. My family is from the area, I've lived there at various times of my life, I have a lot of friends there, and still, I've always found reasons to talk myself out of investing there. Again, I feel like it's a place for local sharpshooters, not institutional types. The city council does stupid stuff routinely. It's a very frustrating place, and I'm always thinking, "You know what city is like Asheville and not run by morons? Greenville, SC."
Not saying you should, for all the same reasons others have mentioned. But I had heard of funds that focus on buying homes in disaster affected areas with expertise on navigating insurance/FEMA processes. The idea was that homeowners needed liquidity and they were offering say X% of contingent claim values so that the homeowner can rebuild their lives and the fund focuses on realizing the value of both the insured value of the home and the long term value of the land. You could definitely take a shoot from the hip approach and just wing it but my guess is to do this right you need pretty deep expertise on a very niche thing.
Super interesting. Thanks. I'll look into that
As a recently displaced resident of Asheville, it’s one thing to wonder if housing prices will drop; it’s another to inquire if now is the time to “buy up” a bunch of houses in a devastated community. The cost of living to average income ratio was already substantial before the pandemic, made exponentially worse during and after. That, paired with the number of people purchasing homes solely to use as Airbnb properties, has made renting virtually impossible, and buying three times higher than it was in 2019.
So, yeah. Buy up a bunch of houses. Then give them to the people who lost their homes and actually want to live there.
Similar thought here in a way.....buy houses so provide liquidity for some of these folks to leave town. The people who live there full time will rebuild. The many airbnbs and retirees without roots may pack up and go somewhere else.
I'll be the one to say it - yes. This is the time to buy. I'm speaking from experience: a family member lost their house in the NY tri-state area during Sandy some years back and rebuilt. For the 3 years after the storm, every house around them started selling for a fraction of the former prices. Fast forward to today and prices are now on par with surrounding areas. Whoever bought in the 2-5 years after the devastation and held until now made a killing. The caveat is areas that get permanently re-greened (Green Acres, etc) and will not recover but those are generally pretty obvious. One thing....go and see properties in person, you cannot trust anyone in that market after the destruction given how desperate people will become.
It's not out of bounds to ask this question considering literally everyone else in the business is looking at this. And if you think it's tone deaf: welcome to america where the capitalist class doesn't give a fuck about people, that's how this shithole runs, don't expect better, america is a business masquerading as a country.
Appreciate the insight
Will have insurance and debt challenges.
Is that you LowCaliberTalent????????????
Hire cold calling team, fill funnel with leads, provide liquidity / profit :)
I like this idea
Who care if the question is "tone deaf" or "insensitive" - most extremely successful people are. If you have the liquidity, the fundamentals are there. Just know there are probably several mega funds two steps ahead.
Whole bunch of softies
true, unnecessary ms
People have just lost their lives and many more have lost their homes. This is the thoughtless and predatory attitude that gives the socialists like AOC and Bernie the political capital try and implement their poor economic policies.
If your business and investment strategy relies upon taking advantage of desperate and unlucky people in a natural disaster, it’s a sad commentary on your inability to generate value in any other manner.
I also ask investment/acquisition folks in the residential and multifamily space to build a little tact and political awareness. Our industry will be more successful and profitable over the long term. Your development friends have to exercise these muscles all the time.
Pussy
No one is saying that is your consistent strategy. Part of the game is being able to identify opportunities in out of the box situations. Feelings/emotions aside, there is obviously an opportunity to make money here especially with how underinsured 95% of the affected were.
Milton just upgraded to a cat 5. Maybe we should start a new thread? Is Hurricane Milton the buying opportunity of the *year* (till the next hurricane)?
Oh my god..have all you monkey brain Chads lost all your brain cells ? is everything just dollars and cents to you when people are about to loose their homes or worse die ?
How about you pick up a book and read about idk climate change (ofc you will most likely call me a leftist psycho for saying this). Yea good luck buying something that will be underwater within less than 10 years. As for my credentials I am an engineer who you smooth brain finance bros pays to design your buildings. Facts don't change, weather is warming and so is the ocean which will lead to worse hurricanes and other natural disasters. There is absolutely no amount of flood prevention system/drainage which will can be built in time to handle the clusterfuck that is about to hit us in the next 10 years (I wrote a whole paper on this for FEMA).
Jesus I guess this is what happens when your exams in college were doing coloring books. Have some grace and respect please
Wow this must be news to banks giving out 30 year mortgages.
Have you considered probate sales following the hurricane? I'd imagine you'd get heavy discounts
Way too many comments here talking about this being distasteful or not and nowhere near enough talking about how dumb of a business decision it would be.
It’d be really retarded to pursue this at all.
OP, it hit everyone’s brain - everybody (on the principal side) had the thought “oh wow what a good opportunity for a basis buy” and then we did 5min of research into flood insurance and decided it was really dumb
Guessing no one in here will properly underwrite expected P&C insurance increases into return projections
No, it isn’t
BOYS!!! HAVE I GOT THE OPPORTUNITY OF A LIFETIME FOR YOU!!! ITS CALLED HURRICANE MILTON!!! GIVE ME YOUR CAPITAL AND LETS DO THIS!!! Helene is old news
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