Tuck/Kellogg/Stern/Cornell MBA for LO asset management
I'm an international applicant with prior experience in investment management at a local asset manager in Asia. I'm frustrated by dings from the target schools (Wharton, Booth, CBS). What would be the best option among the four(Kellogg/Tuck/Stern/Cornell) for LO recruiting? Do the top-tier ones(Fidelity, T Rowe, Wellington) have on-campus recruiting at any of those?
As an international student at one of those four schools, would it be unrealistic to land a buy-side analyst position at LO shops? I've heard very limited number of LO firms sponsor H1B visa.
no I don't think it should matter at all.
do you mean the recruiting at all of those schools is gonna be uphill battle, so the difference would be negligible?
Dude nobody cares. So long as you go to a top 15 school, it's ok, but some firms (recruiters really) pay more attention to the rankings of the school they recruit from. I Am really thinking the likes of MBB here (who also care enough about your GMAT scores) when I say this. Buyside firms like to come to those campuses, where there is both sufficient interest from the student body and enough numbers, for them to dispatch a representative. There is a reason many PE firms recruit at HBS (both interest from the student body and a high number of people who've done PE in the past, so large enough pool for them to pick from), but if you've done PE before, it doesn't matter if you're at HBS or an MBA student at University of Bumble Fuck, you'll get an interview...Another example: many ppl on this forum think Kellogg sucks for IB compared to Booth, but that's not true. Most people at Kellogg are not interested in investment banking to begin with, and so it doesn't make a lot of sense for any investment bank to visit them, but those who are interested in IB, generally just have to show interest and come across a normal person, and they're good.
Nothing is impossible, but 1) being international and 2) gunning for the cushiest spots at Fidelity / TRowe / Wellington / Capital makes it insanely hard.
I say Stern / Cornell RELATIVELY more relevant than Kellogg / Tuck, the latter are exceptional schools but at more consulting / marketing / management angles. Cornell's Cayuga Fund is very well run and they have a dedicated asset management track. Stern has a student fund too, is in the city and has faculties like Damodaran and have a few adjuncts who are pro investors. If you cannot get into those two, I would consider Tuck over Kellogg because Tuck is known for very high alum response rate, which can help when you are doing info interviews to source job leads, and Tuck + Dartmouth undergraduate give you enough of a base of buy-side investors.
In a merit-based profession like LO, I'm not sure how on-campus recruiting helps much tbh. I have to believe all 4 schools you mentioned have resume drops with these firms anyways. The rest comes down to your competence against your peers at other MBA programs.
Good thing is you have relevant pre-MBA experience.
Getting a LO job as an international is very difficult, especially from a non-M7 finance program.
You really need a few things to land a good buyside job post-MBA: 1) you need to be trained well via the on campus clubs, MBA programs like W and CBS are machines in this regard and do an insane job, 2) you need a good and large cohort of classmates to prep with and alums to help pull companies to campus, and 3) you need a history of firms showing up on campus and hiring. I'd give the edge to bigger programs as you'll find more students who want these roles. LOs are also big on pedigree, so higher ranked programs get the edge. In order of recommendation:
1 Kellogg - a large M7 program with finance as one of the most popular majors. The school has a lot of resources and has made finance as well as overall alumni relations a huge priority. Being located near Chicago means all the LOs, AMs and HFs there are fair game for in-semester internships on top of summer roles. The midwestern location also opens up a lot of the big LOs located in the mid-west, a huge advantage the NE schools who all fight over NYC/Boston.
2 Stern - an IB placement powerhouse and its NYC location makes interning during your school year at a HF or LO possible, the student clubs are good and there are well attended. Stern makes LO NYC jobs likely.
3 Tuck - a great MBA program with a super strong alumni network, but the number of students who want LO jobs is minimal. While you do have well places alums, like the DoR at T Rowe, the onus is up to you to prep yourself and find firms as on campus recruiting is minimal. There is no structured on-campus training for students, a big negative in my view.
4 Cornell - like Stern, Cornell places very well in IB but its buyside placement is worse than Stern (Poets and Quants published on this a few months ago w/ stats). Despite having a student run fund, the school never really got buyside placement (not counting PWM or index funds). Sure, Cornell can get you a sell side equity research job, but repeated placement to top LOs is unlikely. The MBA alumni network happens to be the weakest / smallest in the group, that plus its rural location makes recruiting harder. Student quality and MBA pedigree is probably the lowest in the group, so despite having an investment mgt training program, I'd put it last.
Clearly, I am dead wrong about Kellogg.
I work at one of the LO firms that you listed and have discussed the dilemma you mentioned many times.
Currently, my firm largely only hires out of Wharton, Harvard, Booth, Columbia, with some coming from NYU. We have on-campus for Wharton, Booth, Columbia.
We generally do not sponsor H1B, but have in the past, with a considerably variable history of doing so.
I assume it's T. Rowe. Is that right?
Yes. Let me know if you have other questions
Would you be open to an international office like HK, London and Toronto? One of my classmates (international) successfully recruited to one of those shops at an overseas office. We are non M7 and not a traditional finance school. either.
I'm only targeting US offices because I just want to stay in the states, but good to hear that they hire in overseas offices.
I think you’re overthinking it - go to the best school you get into (Kellogg).
People can get weirdly judge-y about school quality - don’t put yourself at a disadvantage just because you’re worried about “finance” vs non-finance schools.
Benefits to not competing against a million hardo clones at Booth or Columbia trying to get the same job too
This is somewhat inaccurate. The LO AM roles don't have an allocated # of seats for each school. So you're competing against the "hardos" at Columbia and Booth regardless of where you go. The difference being that those schools get their foot in the door much easier because the big LO shops and HFs run hiring processes there and there are many more alumni in the industry that you can network with.
I'm not saying it's a lost cause shooting for AM from a non-finance school, but competition within your school for a seat doesn't work the same way as an industry like IB or Consulting where certain groups and offices always hire a certain number from a given school. Given the choice I would never recommend someone targeting AM take a school other than H/S/W/CBS/Booth if they had an admit from one of those.
I would go to Booth/CBS over Kellogg, because they're more or less equals. But you're not going to convince me going to Cornell's MBA program over Kellogg is a good decision if you're targeting a blue chip LO.
Just going to chime in to say that at my M7 school which is known for AM, most domestic students didn’t even get a good long only offer. I’d consider recruiting for banking or something else together or you’re going to be SOL (statistically)
I don't get it. According to employment report, CBS sends about 8~9% of students to investment management every year, and their median salaries look solid. Do you mean nobody at your school went to the top-tier AM that I listed above?
Four points which is consistent from other comments - 1) the volume of people recruiting is much higher than the people who get the offers 2) the % looks wrong, it looks like they grouped sales and account functions into IM function 3) there’s a lot of funds that’s not larger AM funds that people are going into 4) it’s much more difficult for internationals, which was my original point
As someone already mentioned, the international thing will be a HUGE hurdle . Hell, LO AM from even the top schools is typically a uphill climb, and most students ultimately have to do all the work themselves (off-campus). So keep that in mind, in go in knowing that you are going to also have to interview for banking/research roles also.
From my perspective:
1.) Stern: If you have a competitive background (previously did banking or research), then this would be the 'easiest' of the options to land an LO. As I mentioned earlier, most LO firms hardly do any OCR so it definitely helps being able to speak to as many people as possible. And although Sternies arent going to be as warm an alumni base as the others, there are lots of them . The downside here, is despite all the opportunities in NYC, you are competing against every MBA student in the country (e.g. HWS and beyond), so is if you have a weak background you are going to be washed out by the competition. And your alumni base is not known for bending over backwards for its own.
2.) Cornell- Only OK for AM, but good school overall for finance . Other than Tuck, Cornell probably has the most tightknit alumni base. But why I gave it the nod above comes down to the fact that I have seen very little demarcation between UG and MBA alum at Cornell. Probably has to do something with the cold, but you will see MBA's reaching out to former UG's and vice versa. And given that Cornell UG has one of the biggest presence in all of finance, this certainly is an asset. Downside here is the school sees almost no OCR for buyside jobs, so your free time/weekends will be spent driving into NYC or Boston (3hr - 4hr).
3.) Tuck- Pretty good finance school with the warmest alumni base. You wont be able to access the UG community in the same way as Cornell, but if you run into a Tuck alum you will be welcomed with open arms. Also, the school does see some buyside OCR, from PE down to LO. Big downside here the location as you are 2.5hrs from Boston, and lifetime away from NYC.
4.) Kellogg- Best school on the list, but not for finance. If you were looking to do marketing, or go to an MBB, then this would be an easy choice. If you were looking to do Private Equity/Credit, this would also be a solid choice due to its proximity to Chicago. But given your interest in LO, you need as many opportunities as possible, which a marketing school located in the midwest is not going to offer. Furthermore, you will definitely need to have a backup plan (i.e. Banking), and this school will do very little in that regard.
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