UMD vs. UVA
Hi! I am a High School Senior who is interested in finance, not hell-bent on IB, but very open to exploring it or other similar fields. Thinking about the 2 years in IB and then switch to PE, HF, etc. or entrepreneurship plan.
Maryland is in-state for me, the costs are as follows:
UMD: $30k/yr
UVA: $75k/yr
Pros:
UMD: Closer to home, near D.C., would know a few people, cheaper. Possible to land a role with lots of hard work?? (won't be BB/ I'm not certain how hard it would be).
UVA: Target, solid student base/crowd (affluent & all top students from their classes), will be challenged, really like how ambitious the kids are, strong network to be made, heard good things about the professors, smaller classes, students and alum have overwhelmingly positive things to say about the school
Cons:
UMD: Non-target, not very strong for finance, no IB OCR, geared toward big 4, network significantly weaker than UVA, hard to land a role/little to no track record
UVA: Cost, apply to business school second year(however doesn't matter substantially for recruiting)
Is UVA justified for the opportunities/network over Maryland?
I would prefer to attend UVA, even for the culture and vibe, but it would cost about $200k more in total. My parents would put it together, but it needs to be justified. Let me know if you think it's worth the extra change.
*Also if I didn't get into McIntire I would likely pursue econ or systems engineering. Recruiting happens before McIntire admissions and I have heard comparable outcomes from econ grads.
I’d do UMD. Like you said, it’s still a great school. Solid business school, and you can definitely transfer it into future roles for whatever you may be interested in. The 200k+ in savings is HUGE and may give you more leeway in having your parents help with something like rent or an MBA in the future.
Personally, I think not doing in-state with a state that has a solid university would only be worth it for the Ivy schools. Is the difference between UMD and UVA really worth 200k+? I don’t think so, but that’s my opinion. That 200k saved could go a long way for post-grad life.
Yeah that’s a good point, but if I land a good role out of Virginia how necessary is it to get an MBA? I’ve heard once you’re in banking you’re set until you reach high level PE or other high-level roles by which point I would likely have the income to afford an MBA. Moreover, I guess one way I’m thinking about it is it’s $200k extra, and I’ll be 23 when I graduate, that’s 42 years before “retirement”. In 42 years my UVA degree won’t will yield $200k more than my UMD one? Let me know if that’s a bad way of thinking about it
MBA is useless if you land on the street post undergrad. Moreso serves as a break for the workforce and a very expensive party. Good for transitioning to banking from a non-investment finance role or if truly needed for PE. Not necessary in all cases though.
going to UVA assumes you'll land in banking but thats a tough grind in itself. not everyone who shoots/guns for IB out of a target school get it. plus IB is seeing reductions in teams and corrections in how big teams are after 2021 hiring frenzy. it will definitely be a bit harder to break in based on spots availability next few years, i believe.
also, there are plenty of folks who go to IB and quit in <1 or <2 years. usually only 10-30% even remain after 2 years. out of that 10-30%, only select % go to PE funds. you have to also think about how willing and committed you are to seeing finance through.
its alot different when you're on the job and have to sacrifice health, friendships/relationships, getting crushed at work. it is easy to put all this into a theoretical framework and mindset and assume you're just going to be a robot crushing week after week 80hrs etc
Yes, that is definitely a concern/risk, how would you say my flexibility is between S&T, AM, or Management Consulting between the schools?
Ultimately, I like the student base, culture and challenge of Virginia. What options does it open compared to Maryland in other finance fields. At what role, salary, or network does it return more than Maryland?
Can speak as someone who has been on the street for a few years at GS/MS/JPM and went to University of Maryland over Cornell / Carnegie Mellon for exactly the same reason. I was a part of the business school as well as two other schools while there. Absolutely happy with my decision. Was a little nervous about making it onto the street but the vindication of getting the offer over the Princeton/Columbia/Cornell kids in my superday removed any doubt.
I think there is actually a more material funnel to the street than many would realize for UMD (especially BofA and MM IB as well as MS Equities S&T), but it is not guaranteed in any sense and requires being a part of some of the programs that the business school offers. A few highlights:
Smith Investment Fund - Application-only student investment fund that you can start as a freshman. Have a fantastic training program to build great modeling skills and pretty good placement. Friends with one of the founders and he works in PE now after his 2-year stint in banking.
Wall Street Fellows - Application-only sponsored program that is a 2 semester bootcamp on how to get a Wall Street gig. Incredible placement. Have a networking trip to NYC every year and each fellow is set up with a mentor.
Smith Finance Group / International Economics and Finance Society - groups that assist with the basics of learning finance and networking on the street. Less additive to one's resume than SIF, but leadership in one of these societies can be beneficial for your resume. I co-founded one of the groups and spoke to it during my superday.
Lemma Senbet Fund - Might not be the most additive to your resume given it is a Smith sponsored program for your Junior / Senior year, but an opportunity to manage $1.5mm+ of the school's endowment money. Totally worthwhile experience that was highly educational.
You join one of those as President/Vice President, have a 3.85+ GPA, two or more degrees, and a few other x-factors and I think you should be fine.
For what its worth: on a separate note, I absolutely loved my time at UMD due to the numerous student clubs, great gym, great greek life, access to DC, EDM nightlife (#1 club in US nearby), and other educational programs that one is able to access. Sure, college is about the studies and getting a job, but thats only 35% of it. Have to enjoy yourself. Sure UVA is quite wonderful as well but I don't know how wonderful.
I would also think about the added benefit of the UVA name, which truly isn't nearly as strong as a HYPSW or even UMich/Duke, vs the fact that may have to take out an additional $XXXk in loans. Maybe this isn't the case at all and you are simply being considerate for your parent's sake but if you have to take out $100k, thats $1000 per month in payments, which is going to severly limit what you are able to do your first 1-2 years in NYC.
Remaining anonymous because I provide a good bit of identifying information, but to the extent you can message me on here or use the info to find my LinkedIn, feel free to reach out if you have any further questions.
Thanks for the response. I guess I would ask, how many others like you, or in leadership around you acquired similar positions? Also, what are the opportunities like after your first two years, is it easy to go into PE? I understand UVA is not extremely widespread in the public, but I’ve heard great things from the students claiming networks into PE, HF, etc. As well as classes taught by HF managers. I do understand the $ difference is sizable, but do you think it may be worth it long term?
Yes, I would say there are a handful of students across my graduation cohort +- 2 years who have landed MS/GS/JPM/RX IB, but it is quite rare. Most IB kids are going to BofA and Stifel. There was one kid who leveraged contacts in a BB S&T to get a top IB offer, but he was extremely clever about it.
I think there are a lot of wonderful things about UMD and Smith, but if you know without a shadow of a doubt that you're gunning for top IB, UMD will not make it easy. I will caveat that so many ambitious and intelligent high schoolers/freshmen/sophomores think IB is the golden path, when in reality there are a number of contingencies. If you are set on PE or interested in an equity HF, then fine, but for most, IB is a living hell. I know a lot of individuals from S&T who have gone to top FI HF or PC shops. But of course, UVA will enable both options and give you more time to decide as you learn about finance and network across the industry.
lol. lmao, even
What do you suggest?
Current McIntire student here. I have buddies that aren't in any clubs, didn't prep that hard for recruiting, and still landed BB offers.
Guy above me saying you need a 3.9, multiple club execs, and to create the cure for cancer in order to land an S&T offer? Lmaoooooo bro. I think you know the right call here, especially if you're not taking out loans.
Do you know where I can find a breakdown of placements? I’ve found the general breakdown, about 130 went into IB last year. But UVA does not provide firm names. Also would you pay OOS tuition to go to UVA?
Not sure about exact placement report, but off the top of my head I know people at:
Banks: JPM, MS, GS, EVR, CS (lol), UBS, BARC, JEFF, GHL, WB, PWP, LAZ, DB, Stifel
PE: Warburg, KKR, BX
Couple folks at HFs too. Again this is just people I know or friends of friends, in no way is this all encompassing. Not to mention like 100 kids at MBB/T2 and other assorted ER/S&T/LO AM folks.
There are a lot of people that pay OOS tuition. If you know yourself, and believe that you will score a good banking/investing role, I don't see why not, especially if your parents are subsidizing it
UVA
Could you elaborate?
I'd have an honest heart to heart with your parents about the additional cost and see how they feel about it. It seems like you want to attend UVA and it clearly best serves your long-term career interests (can debate how materially, but its probably a fair amount). I'm old enough (have kids of my own) to know that you should just get their perspective - maybe they care a ton about your happiness, maybe they would take pride in you attending a better school, maybe they actually have the savings or do not, maybe you are the chosen one in the family (!)... I have no clue, but just ask them for their perspective and guidance and treat them as people whose opinions you care about a ton.
Transparency: Grew up in a state with a similar quality state school (ok, not great) and parents were ecstatic / proud of me / happy to spend large savings I was not aware of to attend a much more expensive school and I am so happy to have had an honest conversation in retrospect.
Best of luck. PM me if you want more color.
Thank you for your response, truly helpful. May be in touch
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