[AMA] Ex-finance turned Series A Tech Founder
Hey guys,
I'm one of the founders of a post Series A tech startup ($20MM in funding) backed by YC, NFX, and Felicis. We've grown from 0 to 1MM ARR in 12 months and are pacing to hit $7MM in ARR a year from now.
I used to work in trading at a bank back in 2014 and remember thinking about making the switch from finance to tech around my 1 year mark. I felt more motivated to do something disruptive than to make money (although the two can co-exist together).
I've since bounced around from working at an AI tech startup to being a restauranteur. Had to relearn many things from scratch (like programming) but eventually led to where I am today, working alongside some amazing people.
My roles have spanned CTO --> Head of Sales --> Head of Marketing --> Head of Customer Success as I'm always searching for the next big unlock and then focusing all my attention there.
It's been a wild ride and we've gone through 4 pivots but every day has been a joy.
Wanted to answer any questions for people who might be considering a jump from finance to tech or entrepreneurship.
We've had a lot of great experiences hiring ex-bankers so I'm confident everyone has it in them to make the switch.
Amazing journey and I have a million questions so I’ll try to make it concise
1. Do you think you need to be technical to found? Is it necessary to be at least a mid tier technical person so do you believe it’s very feasible to found as a non technical person through hiring outside devs?
I'm a nontechnical YC alum. Here are some observations about the roles nontech YC-backed guys tend to fill, and the story of my demise as a founder.
From my observations of the YC community, nontech guys do well in a few scenarios, all of which involve being paired with a tech cofounder:
This is all pretty common sense, but I've confirmed it via direct personal experience. I was a type three nontechnical cofounder. When that product failed, my cofounders wanted to pivot to deeptech. Deeptech products take a long time to build and don't need a full time sales guy, so I'm out. It sucks, but I don't begrudge them that decision, it makes sense from their perspective. This is a risk you will run.
As a nontechnical cofounder I found myself at a pretty huge disadvantage, and at the mercy of my team. Your milage may vary.
Based on the most helpful WSO content, here are some insights and advice for those considering a transition from finance to tech or entrepreneurship:
Key Points from the Knowledge Base:
Motivation for Transition:
Career Path and Roles:
Learning and Adaptation:
Experience and Pivots:
Hiring Ex-Bankers:
Advice for Transitioning:
Evaluate Your Motivation:
Skill Development:
Networking:
Consider an MBA:
Start Small:
Be Open to Change:
For more detailed discussions and personal experiences, you can explore threads on Wall Street Oasis related to transitioning from finance to tech or starting a business.
Sources: Transitioning from tech to a serious finance job (yes, you read that right), Taking the plunge.. from New Zealand, Tech As An Alternative to Finance, Q&A: about the finance to tech/startup path, Why You Should Launch a Startup Instead of Going to the Buyside
Ask away! I love this question because I've flip flopped back and forth a bit on the answer here.
If you want to go through something like Y-Combinator and/or be venture backed they are very biased towards having at least 1 technical cofounder. I don't think I met a YC company in our batch where there wasn't at least 1 technical founder. If it's your first company YC wants to know that even if you just had your own two hands and no money, you can or have demonstrated that you can make magic happen without being beholden to anybody. It's about speed of execution to twist and turn until you finally stumble into something that feels like product-market-fit. Offshore devs can be expensive, unclear quality, and if you decide to part ways you're stuck with a legacy codebase that the next person might not understand or want to deal with. You and everyone else would feel confident if development was 100% in your control, at least in the beginning.
Interestingly these days I think the barrier to bringing a product to market has dropped significantly with cheap but effective offshore devs (we have A LOT of success with Brazilian engineers and I've heard Poland is great too), easy access to product development/engineering training like bootcamps to teach you what you need to know to develop a product, and libraries that abstract most of the complexities away. You can stitch together a couple APIs and get a functioning prototype of what you need. But to build a good product you'll definitely want someone experienced (ideally 5-10 years) who's done proper software development (a lot of them out there these days).
Anyways building the product has become table stakes now. There are so many products and copy cats spinning up overnight because it's never been easier to do so.
What I think has become far more important is the non-technical founder role that needs to keep poking and prodding at this amorphous blob until you see the true shape of it. This blob is probably what Peter Thiel calls "What is something you know to be true that nobody else knows." You're always searching for these truth blocks that are the foundation of your business. I think this is something finance people who spend a lot of their time trying to be right on a trade/investment SHINE.
So these days I absolutely think somebody needs to be technical (doesn't have to be you) on the founding team. But again table stakes. Then to win, the non-technical person should be very good at copying (our strategy) or seeing and building upon truth blocks. Because once you get past seed/A engineering isn't usually the real bottleneck (unless you're building rockets), it's often product/business making poor decisions that ruin the company IMO.
Such great insight man, is there any chance I can pm you? I just have so many questions lol, If not worried I can post them on here too
Yes please DM me and we can set up some time to chat!
Thanks for doing this AMA! How would you suggest meeting a strong technical co-founder?
Reposting this answer from a different thread in here (with some additional thoughts):
To find early engineers, I think you should get exposure to good startups (best stage IMO is at the Series B mark). Seed the engineers are still hacking and iterating product. Series A is when the company is starting to scale its product/growth which means they've figured out how to scale some engineering systems and people. Series B is where the founding engineers who managed to survive 2 funding rounds of growth have learned how to scale but also how to iterate a product into product market fit. Make friends with them! Maybe internship/externship if you're still in school. Best is if you can find a way to interface with them in the company via a Product Management role. If you're not in school I think being in sales and marketing FT is fine too as long as you're able to meet them in-person in office or offsite, or even better just be known internally as a rockstar in what you do. A players want to team up with A players. I wouldn't be surprised if our head of sales starts a company with our head of engineering. They're both regarded very highly inside the company as examples of people who make magic happen, constantly. If Warmly exits one day, I may even facilitate it.. and then try to invest!
Now for the "strong" technical co-founder. What you should realize is that to get to a big business that exits the above is table stakes (albeit a small percentage of people qualify for this). But the cofounder role itself IMO is actually a business/executive role and they need to also have a business/strategic mind if they want to scale and continue to add outsized value to the company. They should understand leverage and how they can best lever themselves, their team, the company. The technical cofounder typically helps get the product off the ground but very quickly will need to hire in experts to fill the gaps and even replace themselves if that's the highest point of leverage (so they can continue to leverage other areas of the biz). At that point they're still a big shareholder and can catalyze or stunt growth because of their influencer on big decisions. So IMO "strong" technical CO-FOUNDER is about meeting baseline technical requirements, and then spiking high in business/strategy AND complements you where you're weak (maybe one is more visionary the other more operational). I think like this together you will continuously AND QUICKLY unlock opportunities instead of being bottlenecked. Speed of execution and efficient decision making are two of the most powerful levers to pull when trying to win in startups.
Thanks for sharing! What were the most transferrable skills you had coming from a finance/trading background for co-founding? Did it help with the finance side of the business or fundraising?
No tangible skills were immediately "transferrable." The finance stuff about DCF, modeling, etc. is maybe .1% of the business until you get to Series B fundraising where they need to see some model of your gross margin, EBITDA, ARR, etc. But it's not something an engineer couldn't pick up after talking to a few folks.
But I will say we're actively hiring for ex-bankers/traders/management consultants because the way these people think are unique (and ruthless). I've found that tech people focus a lot on what's hip and cool, and finance people have a tendency to see through the fog and narrow in on true value. Next step is to 80/20 that value. There's no slack, which I personally love.
It's not a hard skill that transfers, but a mindset.
Thanks a lot for taking the time to do this!
I have 2 questions:
1. How far along were you guys when you got accepted into YC?
2. How much impact did doing YC have on your startup?
No problem!
1. How far along were you guys when you got accepted into YC?
We actually went through Techstars in 2020 right before COVID hit. Then when COVID hit (while we were nearing the end of Techstars) were in the process of raising our A and decided to apply to YC as well because we weren't sure what the funding environment was like. By the end of Techstars we had a product with 20 paying customers that we acquired in 2 weeks (it was a product that tracked job changes in the CRM to provide warm leads for sales people and many companies really needed warm leads during the pandemic). Miraculously we managed to get a Seed round investment at around the same time we got into YC. And then decided to go through YC for personal reasons. Surprisingly, it was pretty common to see YC companies in the batch who had also raised their seed round.
2. How much impact did doing YC have on your startup?
We were the first cohort to go through YC virtually so we didn't have the traditional social experience. But I made a life-long mentor friend through the virtual 1:1 bagel matching slack thing. We still meet with every 2 weeks to strategize around startup issues. Branding-wise it made hiring easier. There hasn't been a candidate that we've really wanted that we haven't been able to close. Lots of people were interested in us early on because we were YC. And they also have something called "Work for a Startup" that we could post job openings on that gave us strong candidates.
The big thing that YC does is create massive amounts of FOMO for your startup in the eyes of investors. It's one of the few times in a startup's early stage journey where there's real pressure for investors to make a decision right now, rather than wait until someone else puts money in first. Many companies would receive term sheets before demo day. You're pushed to ship and launch constantly, as well as chase revenue, a philosophy that has its pros and cons. But the idea is to make metrics look like you're about to take off. And VCs don't want to miss out on the next Dropbox. You'll see how fast other companies in your batch are running and the creative hacks they use to find product market fit (some genius).
Then there's the internal YC network/forum that we've benefited from extensively for the past 4 years from launching our products internally to the community, asking for intros, best practice advice, and just about anything else you can think of. I would say if you haven't already it's worth trying to get into the program.
Congratulations on the Series A! I heard about your company for the first time earlier this week so it’s cool to see your AMA here. I was wondering how important you think having a good story is to securing funding? I’ve heard that selling the idea and having good connections is more important than the product itself? What are your thoughts?
Also, I’m interning at a Series C tech startup right now for my freshman summer and have become very interested in starting my own company or working at a startup. What advice do you wish you had about starting a company before you started your own?
Additionally, if you’re looking for any interns, I’d love to chat! I’m looking for experience and I’m very interested in the startup world!
Thank you for the interest! We're currently hiring for ex-banker/trader/consultant types for certain FT roles. Unfortunately no internships yet but that might change in the future. As you can imagine the cost of recruiting/onboarding is very high and each person is extremely high leveraged in a startup. The way I see it anybody we bring on who's as ambitious as a banker has the potential and path to rise to a leadership position within the company and that's actually the goal.
I think story is nice icing but insufficient. The meat is:
1. Traction (are you guys growing quickly already)
2. Team (are you guys rockstars in what you do or have had successful exits, e.g. former facebook infrastructure engineers who are just recreating what they know works in the Malaysian market)
In this order.
Ideas and stories are basically "marketing" whereas Traction and revenue is the truth. VCs put money where things are true, not necessarily where it sounds to be true.
Team having experience doing it is a proxy for the truth (ex-facebook infrastructure engineers applying what they know in a different market) or have refined their mental models/filters in how to spot/derive the truth (ex-founders who have successfully exited).
Also, most "good" ideas have already been thought of before. Highly unlikely you're coming up with something original. More likely that you found something that you realize will be extremely difficult to compete in or do but you have some sort of edge/unfair advantage. IMO I'd rather have a good market and copy an idea that's already working because then you're in the game. Traction is easier, languaging the product is easier, and it's just execution risk for a little while.
About network, I think this is extremely important. When you think about it having a strong network actually accelerates 1 and 2. You have access to more credible people who can help you find customers and former founders who have worked on your idea and failed/succeeded (both shortcut the learnings to 1 without building anything). And it also allows you to build a stronger founding team, which really in my opinion is the biggest predictor of long-term success.
Okay as for advice on starting a company when you're still in college... I think is to figure out what you are uniquely amazing at. What comes naturally? What feels easy to do that isn't easy for anybody else (in the context of business)? Examples of superpowers that I've seen:
Networking, charismatic, extremely likeable, having contrarian viewpoints about the world that are right, can understand complex systems, detail oriented/structured thinker, creative/funny, purple cow (somehow finds a way to always stand out), hacker (gets free tickets somehow to everything).
Double/triple down on this thing and figure out a job where you can work on mastering the art of your ability. Aim for good jobs of course at good companies. If you're a networker figure out a way to get into VC or something similar. If you're really creative/funny you should figure out how to get into brand/social marketing at a hot startup. If you're a hacker see if you can be a business intern at a startup and figure out a way to 10x something for the startup with your own two hands.
Master your craft, be known for it. And make friends with as many people who spike high in other areas. Eventually, form a team of avengers who complement you!
Know this isn't your path, but as you mentioned good impressions hiring ex-bankers wanted to ask. Do you think a move into PE provides valuable experience for making a later move into entrepreneurship, versus those with only banking experience?
On your other comment regarding the need for someone on the founding team to have the technical knowledge, how did you / do you recommend meeting with and identifying the right people early on? I'd assume some level of technical knowledge is needed for the sniff test. On meeting people, I definitely feel like a lot of finance people are in a bit of a bubble, and except for an MBA or pure social luck I'm not sure of the best paths to get connected with the right people.
I haven't seen as many people move from PE into YC backed type startup. Typically it's banking and trading for a few years before making the jump. I don't think deep finance knowledge is the needle mover for great 0 to 1 founder, unless you're building something that requires that type of knowledge. Better off spending time mastering another craft like sales, marketing, engineering, networking, story telling, etc.
My other thought is that the personality type who wants to continue down the traditional finance path is different from the one that wants to go into entrepreneurship. Starting a successful company is a long endeavor maybe spanning 7-10 years before a good exit. In that time you won't be making much. And even after you exit it may not be what you'd expect. By Series B you might only have 10-15% of the company (also depending on # of cofounders). You might exit for $100 million if you're extremely lucky and good at what you do. But the default scenario is you don't exit for much and aren't making a whole lot even if you are lucky enough to be funded. Personally money wasn't what drew me to entrepreneurship, it was the dream of an uncapped future and the freedom to choose how I got there. What got me to stay was the game of constantly finding truth blocks and ways to leverage myself and the company faster/better than our competition.
Now about meeting engineers. I think however you can get exposure to good startups (best stage IMO is at the Series B mark). Seed the engineers are still hacking and iterating product. Series A is when the company is starting to scale its product/growth which means they've figured out how to scale some engineering systems and people. Series B is where the founding engineers who managed to survive 2 funding rounds of growth have learned how to scale but also how to iterate a product into product market fit. Make friends with them! Maybe internship/externship if you're still in school. Best is if you can find a way to interface with them in the company via a Product Management role. If you're not in school I think being in sales and marketing FT is fine too as long as you're able to meet them in-person in office or offsite, or even better just be known internally as a rockstar in what you do. A players want to team up with A players. I wouldn't be surprised if our head of sales starts a company with our head of engineering. They're both regarded very highly inside the company as examples of people who make magic happen, constantly. If Warmly exits one day, I may even facilitate it.. and then try to invest!
Thanks for doing this!
1) Thoughts on working at a startup after graduation? I have offers for faang + banking, but thinking learning at a startup will be unmatched, particularly for future founders. Pros and cons would be great.
2) Thoughts on dropping out (from one of the best colleges in the country) to either work at a startup or found something?
1) My bias here but most people don't know what a good startup looks like. Everything sounds good and can look good on the outside, but it doesn't mean it'll win (big exit). Most people think you're trying to learn skills at a startup. That's a secondary founder skill, often one you hire for. You're trying to learn how to win. If you don't win, IMO you didn't really learn the most important thing. The real learning is when you're in a decision making seat at a startup seeing the outcomes of your choices and the impact to the business. Get that seat as fast as possible if you're going to join a startup. If you're leading marketing at a seed stage startup and take it to Series A, you've learned something real. HOW TO WIN. If you're at a sexy Series B startup not in the decision making seat and learning how to use tools, how to program a bit, and how to make KPIs, it's nice but not the real founder skill. Better off in banking/FAANG IMO starting out because you're just learning the skill of how to pick things up quickly. Everything in tech changes so quickly that whatever you learned 2 years ago might be out of date today. So to actually learn something at a startup you need 1) to be in a decision making seat and 2) the startup actually needs to see some big wins in a time horizon you care about (next funding round in 1-2 years with a high likelihood of big exit). Then you learned something very useful, have the cache of helping take a company from 0 to 1 or 1 to 10 and have credibility and confidence to start something of your own.
2) I think you drop out when you have something that is building towards traction. Then you apply to YC, get in, and drop out. People like dropouts because school is not really teaching you how the real game is played. I've met people who started B2B SaaS companies at 15 and by 20 they knew more than most B2B SaaS founders on how the meta game works. And you coming from one of the best schools is enough credibility that you don't have to worry much about getting a job after dropping out (in this day and age) unless you want to go corporate (?). If I see someone from a good school dropped out to take a swing at something big and got somewhere with it (past seed stage) to me that means this person is probably a needle mover. There are hyper growth startups like Retool and Posthog that exclusively hired ex-founders to run business units and have been killing it! But for your sake another option is to stick to school, go to FAANG/Banking for a year and work on your startup on the side. Really vibe with your incoming analyst class because they're going to be your friends for life, and then start your company on the side. I would take this route personally because I wouldn't trust myself to know what to build before seeing how the world works a bit. The friends and people you meet in your first year out of college will be lifelong. An idea may only last a few months.
Really appreciate your input! Super helpful.
What are your thoughts on banking VS FAANG (product or swe)? My initial thoughts are FAANG SWE is best for Saas because you can prototype a product by yourself.
To found a company yeah FAANG Product/SWE > banking to become a founder IMO. Your network, branding, understanding of tech will be stronger. It's one of the best paths to getting into YC etc.
Got a bunch of random ones for you:
* How did you go about raising initial funding? Was it apply to Y-comb then leverage that when calling investors? Have always been curious about the backstory on raising.
* What was being a restaurateur like lol
* Do you believe in the idea that everything can be self-taught and it only takes focus?
*How did you go about raising initial funding? Was it apply to Y-comb then leverage that when calling investors? Have always been curious about the backstory on raising.
Living in the Bay is helpful because you end up meeting many people who are junior/senior VC people or angel investors or know these people. Our CEO had a big network because he was involved with entrepreneurship groups since college, and then spent 2 years in the Bay actively building his network. We went through On Deck which expanded our network more. Got into Techstars (similar to YC) with a prototype of an idea that we eventually pivoted. There we met many Techstars mentors who were F500 execs or exited founders who were willing to cut angel checks. The angel checks from reputable people led to intros and interest from more reputable angels. Eventually we got angels like the former CEO of ZoomInfo, founder of Clearbit, ex-COO of Gainsight (these are the category leaders in our space) to invest in us, which led to intros to reputable VCs. We pitched them, got one term sheet, and that led to others. We raised our Seed before we went through YC. It's positive and fast momentum. Have a big network of well known/well connected people and cultivate FOMO!
*What was being a restaurateur like lol?
It was awesome, ran a Vietnamese pho restaurant with my best friend from high school while building restaurant apps on the side and hawking it during restaurant off hours. Cooked a lot, made a lot of smoothies, served a lot of noodles. Something about getting paid for the food you make is very rewarding. But then our AC broke during the heat wave in Texas summer... COVID happened and realized a lot of money flows through restaurants but not a lot gets to the owners. I still would love to do it again one day as a side hobby. Would recommend it.
*Do you believe in the idea that everything can be self-taught and it only takes focus?
Skill, yes I do. But you will learn faster and better by having access to or learning from experts. You spending 2 years self-teaching programming is worse IMO than 3 months working in a rockstar engineering team shipping features. Your value would be higher. You won't have a frame for what good or even excellent looks like if you're self-taught, even if you are focused. And same applies for all disciplines like sales, marketing, etc.
A side thought is certain behaviors/personality traits I don't think can even be taught. For example our CEO is innately driven to network. If he's walking he'll randomly pick a number to call to surprise FaceTime and have a 1 minute chat to catch up and let that person know he's thinking about them. "Where in the world are you?.... Oh you're working at Tesla? I have a friend who works in their AI team too I can connect you."
Do you think if you work in IB M&A, you can work at a company, and then learn and have the ability to make selling a company or exiting more likely? For instance, if I work at my mom's coffee shop or something.
It's like if you were the coach of a basketball team, your cousin is more likely to become really good because you've gained an insight from being a coach, and kind of understand what it takes to become good at basketball.
Working in IB M&A definitely helps to understand how an investor or someone looking to fund/acquire you is going to view your business. You'll have fluency in the financials which is helpful. But it's not really going to matter much until you get to Series A/B which could be a long road. How to acquire and retain customers and stay competitive are far more important. These are not things that you focus on in banking.
Your coffee shop example is a good one. If you did IB for 2 years and then wanted to exit your mom's coffee shop, what is the value of the banking skill set in your opinion? Nothing comes close to starting, scaling, and exiting an actual business IMO.
Great post and commentary, thanks for taking the time to spell all this out for us youngins
Of course!
College rising sophomore at an ivy here. Any tips for getting into YC as a college student?
Congrats on getting in the game this early! Get a team together and start building something visionary. You have so many resources around you to figure out what that is. I've met founders who've dropped out of college to take that idea to IPO running 1000s of employees. They went through YC, you can do it. Hustle on the idea and just keep building. Make friends with the smartest engineers in your school, understand what you uniquely add. Pair up, build it, prototype it, sell it for money. Apply to YC.
Starting my growth equity gig after 2 years in banking. Really want to go to a series A/B company in a “decision making” role.
How would you go about getting this job? Is it going to a later stage company in a smaller position after 2 years to build credibility and then work backward? Don’t have strong technical skills outside finance but would be a strong player in business development/outward facing roles.
Ah yeah so you wouldn't be able to jump into being a leader. Need credibility and know-how/results. Startups hire leaders for experience, not potential.
The best way to be a leader is to join a company that is growing rapidly in whatever position you can that's not grunt work and has a path towards leadership. If you're at a growth equity company you'll probably see A+ later stage companies that are taknig off. VC role you'll see A+ earlier stage companies about to take off.
I think 80% of getting into a leadership role at a good company is right place right time and less about ability.
Pick the right company that will be the next unicorn, apply your work ethic/strategic thinking and you will be a leader!
Thanks - makes sense. Do you think there is incremental value is doing the GE work for 2 years or does it make sense to start looking and thinking about companies soon, if the position at the startup is not going to be in a leadership role anyways?
Feels like 24 months in the investing role could be time better spent at a startup given the goals here.
It'll look good on the resume but you'll run into comp issues for yourself. Might not feel worth it. Startups won't want to pay what you'll be getting paid for a non-leadership role (even for leadership honestly). You'll have to be willing to take the pay cut to somewhat start over. So it'll feel like 2 steps back for maybe one day 3 forward. Do it early 1 step back for 2-3 forward one day.
I've never done GE but I imagine you'll learn things like business model, competitive market analysis, value, what are investable businesses, which will help you vet startups that are actually on to something vs all marketing. This is actually very important to help you join the right startup that will break out.
Once you're in there most of your finance skills won't translate over because you're not the founder and you need to build trust with the execs and the company before you can push for big strategic changes. The departments are either sales, marketing, product, customer success, engineering, finance, operations. Founders ultimately have all the power, but execs, if they're trusted, that move the business are sales, marketing, and product. All 3 of these roles you will not be qualified or have credibility to lead for some time. But the bet on yourself is your learning curve is faster than anyone else and you have a very strategic mind coming from finance. I actually think head of marketing is one of the most fascinating, impactful, and strategic roles out there, can make a longer post about it. You might end up here longer term. Product is the other one. Sales I see people move into as well because they love the grind/hunt and getting compensated for winning.
You'll get the exec role not because of your financial skills but because of all the skills that would've made you a great MD or Partner at a fund (understanding points of leverage, recruiting/hiring, working through people, and most importantly WINNING!)
How do you think about your personal finances and risk appetite? Did you have enough in the bank in personal expenses or a backstop (high personal savings/supportive high earning partner)? Was it a big swing for you?
How did you think about risk and potential failure when you started? What was your internal mental dialogue around that?
Can you walkthrough how you taught yourself how to code? What resources did you use?
Do you have a greater sense of fulfillment as the founder of a company vs your finance role?
Can you walkthrough how you taught yourself how to code? What resources did you use?
Do you have a greater sense of fulfillment as the founder of a company vs your finance role?
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