A $5 million check or dream school+dream business job?
Let's say you were given a choice. Take $5 million tax-free OR guaranteed admission to your dream school (any program you want) AND your dream business job coming out. I'm limiting it to jobs in business (finance, consulting, startups, tech, etc) since otherwise everyone would want to be an athlete, movie star, etc.
Which would you take and why?
Check all day long. Why? Because I live in a cheap area and I'm a pretty simple person so that would easily last me the rest of my life and benefit my family that is left behind when I die.
check please
is this a serious question?? I would take half a million dollars over acceptance to any b-school, including HBS.
$5 million EASY
You can literally live like a king in Texas
$
Lol is this a real question...
Seriously? That's like a $10M bonus. The average lifetime earnings of a HBS grad is like $3-4M.
Id be the owner and CEO of my dream business, and it'd be worth a billion dollars+. So dream job.
This... I'd take the money and invest and/or start my own business. Then, if I had the time, I'd go to whatever school would accept me and learn about something I'm actually extremely passionate about.
Does the dream job have to be within reason or can I get hired directly as the CEO of Apple? If so, then I would definitely take the dream school and dream job and get my 1 million apple shares for taking on the CEO position.
For almost all other scenarios, I'll take the cash.
Great question. Yeah, it would need to be within reason. A job that you could theoretically get coming out of a top school, so something like VP at a megafund PE or a junior PM at a large macro hedge fund, or a top VC firm. Something along those lines. So obviously this rules out CEO of apple or multi-billionaire entrepreneur.
this question is beyond retarded. i would take the money and build my pleasure compound in the philippines to be populated by an army of horny filipino fuck-sluts 24-7.
ask me if i regret my decision after my morning tongue-bath.
Can you feel AIDS early in the morning?!?
Regards
Fucking worth it.
between that and dropping dead of a heart attack at 65 stateside after a lifetime of paying the mortgage and driving the kids to soccer practice...not the worst way to go.
Epic.
I would take dream school+job. The long-term potential upside is greater than $5 million.
I'm very aware that's the average. Each HBS class is roughly 900 students, and the 3.5 million figure includes people who go into non-lucrative fields and women who start families and decide to work part-time.
This hypo explicitly states dream school+dream job. So for me personally, it would be HBS followed by equity research at an IM powerhouse like capital group, dodge and cox, wellington. Then, from there, make portfolio manager, and potential earnings become way more than $5 million.
You gotta think long-term. The people on this thread are just thinking about short-term pleasures rather than looking at the hypo from a strategic vantage point.
These lifetime earnings numbers always seem so low to me. How exactly do they calculate it?
Money Obviously
5 mill tax free means i would probably take 1 mill and go buck wild with it, invest the remaining 4 mill and at a modest return of 10% per year, still make 400k/yr not doing shit. Plus If i really wanted to I could put that money to better use. The upside of starting with 5 mill is much higher than starting with 0 and then 2 years later (assuming already completed undergrad, otherwise min 6 yrs) getting 200k-300k.
Plus, you want your dream job? you could walk into a PE/VC/Hedge fund or whatever else u want and say "i will add $5 mill to your AuM if you make me XYZ". boom you got your dream job + the $5mill.
$5M tax free and that's a no-brainer
Do you have any idea how long it would take you to earn $5 million working your dream job, post-MBA? This is a ridiculous question.
CHECK PLEASE
I'd take the $$ and run my own damn business, not working 100 hours a week for zero bonus.
I'll take the check, learn how to trade and grow my book instead of spending 2 years at B-school and grinding my way to running money.
Scrilla in a heart beat. C.R.E.A.M.
Holy shit, bro. ER is your dream job? When you could do anything?
That's like being a starting pitcher in the College World Series and turning down the Yankees to play for the Amarillo Armadillos.
I mean, to each his own, but maybe you should aim just a little higher?
Well, not real dream job, but the hypo was asking about "realistic" dream jobs that can be obtained right after school. So given those constraints, yes, working for an IM powerhouse or a top macro hedge fund would be my dream job. HBS followed by either capital group/passport/soros, makes me drool.
Check please, you can do anything with the money after LIKE start your dream job or invest in anything...or God knows what.
I cant believe this is a real question. 5MM invested with only a 3% return a year is still $150,000 a year for doing literally nothing.
Brady, just so you know (and I mean no disrespect to the guys in ER), equity research is basically what I do. At home. In my underwear.
I think you can expect in-house ER to be one of the first things to be outsourced over the next decade. Hell, it's already happening.
I thought you were a daytrader? Or am i wrong about that? By ER, are you actually doing fundamental analysis of companies in your free time?
Daytraders do research when they are not making trades.
As a connsultant, id be the first to recommend that outsource :)
Brady,
No, I'm not a day trader (although I do sometimes). I'm basically a financial and marine (as in maritime) journalist these days. In my capacity as a financial writer, ER is a big part of the job. I've even considered starting my own niche shop.
I was a day trader for a while and did well, but it was in California where the market opens at 6:30 in the morning. Most days I found myself finished by 8:30-9:00 in the morning and I'd start drinking after a quick workout. I was killing myself being drunk before lunch every day, so I gave it up.
Eddy, random as question but did you know anything about the drybulk buyout of Quintana by Excel a few years ago? Right before the BDI crashed?
Yeah, it was a huge deal at the time and a real rescue operation. Just to clarify, though, my area of expertise (such as it is) is the recreational marine industry.
if you were doing well, didn't it occur to you to give up the booze instead of the cash? I mean, is your excuse really that you were killing it by 9:00a every am and couldn't come up with anything better to do with the rest of your day than get shit faced?
Not an excuse, and I wouldn't say I was killing it. I set up a sort of poor-man's black box and my goal was to make $500 a day with one down day a week. In late '99 in the midst of the dot com bubble, this was really easy to do. Remember that I'd already made a shit-ton of money trading commodities and walked away, so this was basically semi-retirement for me.
My fucking eyes hurt from reading this shit.
I'd take the check as well, for the main reason that even if I blow a million on pixy sticks and unicorns, $4M earning 8-10%/year would give me $300-400k/year without getting out of bed. $300-400k in passive income? I'll take it.
Well, plenty of hedge funders make this choice all the time for a lot lower amounts of cash.
For a mid career hedge funder, going to b-school would be a $800K-1M opportunity cost. How many do you see chilling for two years in b-school?
Waiter, I'll take the check when you get a chance.
If I could go to the USAFA and fly F-22 Raptors after I graduate, I would give up the check. Same with shooting F-18 Superhornets off aircraft carriers from the USNA.
I would actually give up a lot more money than that. Can not imagine anything in life greater than flying supersonic fighter jets.
So let's review. After all of these responses: 1 person would take the dream school + job over the cash. Brady I'm pulling you. Hope one of these days those adcomms send you the thick letter instead of the thin one.
Did you read what I wrote?
Thanks bro. I really hope it works out this time. There's nothing my heart desires more than a M7 acceptance. I literally have dreams about it every night.
^^ Yeah, I always thought flying a fighter jet would be awesooooome.
Oh, you have 3 snowmobiles, 2 atvs, and a dirtbike? Yeah... I fly a F-22.
Ok..2....Brady and Maverick.
Working at the National Counterterrorism Center would be so cool or anything along those lines. What would I not give up to be that SEAL who took out Bin Laden! Goddammit man, I wish I was born in the USA, so I could have gone to a military academy.
And Ragnar, ICEMAN. Thank you.
Haha Nice pick. I'd want to be Iceman too.
Do you sail Eddie?
Does a hobby horse have a wooden dick?
I would take the $5M check.
I feel like school would be a non-issue. I would probably start my my dream business in NYC (think "Morgandorf Bergoldstone" lol), try to create some kind of iconic piece, ideally an accessory, so it takes off. Dedicate every waking moment to branding, quality, and authenticity to build the brand. Then I would try to take some time to get a great education, most likely one of the obvious MBA choices. Hopefully learn alot there, and build my brand through the network and hopefully have Wall Street connections, high net worth clients, etc. THEN!, then I would open another location in Honolulu, and hopefully, somehow, grow Honolulu into the financial center it ought to be. I would then finally focus on raising a family. I would raise them on the North Shore, send them to Kamehameha (or anywhere else they want to go), and hopefully have them on their way to at the very least a prestigious undergraduate education.
See? School was in there. And my dream job. Also in there, somewhere, insert slaying Asian chicks with my wife regularly.
In all reality, and in regard to this question, I feel that the check is the obvious answer because I think that everybody would like to be entrepeneurial and do something they are passionate about, especially if they can turn it into a successful business. I cannot imagine turning down a $5M check for school.
Bro, I know a guy who did this very thing. He was able to because his dad is some emperor grade hong kong rich guy.
http://thearmoury.com/
Bro, I know a guy who did this very thing. He was able to because his dad is some emperor grade hong kong rich guy.
http://thearmoury.com/[/quote]
Wow bro, thanks for the link! Very inspirational. Personally, I think guys like your friend, Andy Dunn, Neil Blumenthal and David Gilboa, the guys at Alton Lane, etc have it made. I love direct to consumer models, but I love the idea of offering an exceptional bespoke experience as well. This is my dream.
Invaluable information on there. Thanks again.
Have you checked out Morbihan/Quiberon? That area is phenomenal during the Summer.
I haven't, but that's because my sailing has really been on hold since moving here. I'd love to sail the Bay of Biscay because it kicks up something fierce, but I haven't had the opportunity. Believe it or not, it takes a really coordinated effort for me to leave Paris at all. My wife and kids depend on me to a degree that is unhealthy, and when you throw a couple dogs in the mix it gets really complicated quick.
The key to this whole question is the tax-free part. For those of you picking the job, do you realize how much people are taxed to death in this country? Assuming 0 expenses, and that's a HUGE assumption, earning 5M post-tax is like $8-10M depending on your state. $5M is more than most of us (even those with Phds) are going to see in a lifetime of scrimping and saving your post-tax earning. You'd have to be a fucking moron to take a pass on the check. Those of you who took the job need to wake-the-fuck-up to what this country is becoming.
this guy is spreading the knowledge big time. Can you image having to sit in a classroom knowing you passed up on 5M? That alone should drive any man insane.
Check please
I know several people who left high-six/low-seven figure jobs to go to b-school. One guy was one of the best prop equity traders, and he went to wharton. Another was the youngest portfolio manager at bridgewater, and he's now at stanford gsb. And still another was a PM at citadel, and she's also at stanford gsb.
Money is great obviously. But one should not underestimate the network/opportunities/social experience that you get at an elite b-school. It's someething money cannot buy.
The classroom is where the insanity begins. It really hurts when you're out there earning your $100K+, working your ass off, building a career, doing all the right things . . . and then being taxed like crazy. As you get older you realize that virtually ANY tax-free dollars are better than anything else on W2.
My boss told the intern we had in the fall to dress for the job you want not for the job you have when he wore wrinkled pants to work one day. I happened to be walking by and said "Well fuck I guess Im going to start wearing shorts and flipflops."
Would definitely take the money.
off topic...Eddy, what ever happened to bonus bananas?
$5 million thank you.
Think about it this way, $5 million can basically guarantee you admittance into any B School you want, while any B School cannot guarantee you $5 million.
$5,000,000 + deflation = good time
take the check, put it in fairly safe investments, live very well while doing something I was passionate about. Maybe some sort of sports outreach for at risk kids.
In my case? the money...
First 9 - 12 months: I'd travel around the world trying to put together my own deals and visiting my friends. Doing a single normal sized deal in my sector would be enough to earn the equivalent of the "average" HBS lifetime salary in about 3-5 years passively if I roll my fee into the deal (all for the cost of 6 round the world tickets). The beauty is that apart from the travel costs this is all sweat equity, so I still retain my $5 MM in cash whether I do a deal or not. If I don't pull off the deal in a year/18 months I can resume my career as is.
After 9-12 months: I could enrol in business school (HBS/Stanford MBA/Masters) after my first deal (assuming I don't get in this year with my current resume) or do the AMP (or whatever it's called) at HBS while working on more deals/putting together a fund idea/ team of my own if I feel like it. So in effect I can end up with scenario 2 as an option after pursuing scenario 1. Even if this was "not allowed" I would still pick the money as I could probably create my dream job with that money or network into/set up a distressed RE practice at a good HF or PE firm with the deals that I'd do and the people I know in my sector.
Hobbies / fun: I also have a couple of other ideas that I want to get off the ground for fun (a documentary, an independent film and other ideas) and the extra money could come in handy (wouldn't put more than $50-200k at risk).
Return expectations! For those of you who posted about 8% p.a. return passively on $5MM, you need to be realistic. The risk and volatility on such a strategy would kill your savings very quickly as you draw down or would make you miserable. 3-5% is a much more realistic target as long as you don't draw down too much p.a. (i.e. you live off of less than 100k if you plan on not working/earning other income).
Relinquis, my current dividend portfolio yields 5.5% and has an average FFO/Earnings payout ratio of ~50-60%. My assumption has always been that if I lose my job, long-term, those dividends are going to be fairly sustainable and keep pace with inflation. Indeed, during the generational crash of 2008-09, my portfolio only saw a 25% reduction in dividends which it made back completely over 2 years as dividends were resumed. (adjusted for additional contributions)
If you want to be ultra-conservative, you can go with a 2% draw, but I think 3-3.5% is pretty darned safe for most people looking for inflation-adjusted income. Just look for sustainable operating income and high payout ratios. It's a little easier to find abroad and in MLPs than it is in the S&P 500, though.
Unlike most of the people here, I'd take business school. This has largely to do with the fact that I actually see that as a safer option; a $5m bank account can be taken away from you in the event of a financial meltdown, but the skills and network that a place like HBS offer a guy like me (complete non-target, as in place you guys would never have heard of) will stick around.
That's just the way I see it, though. Even then it's a bit of a tough fight. Might just take the cash and invest it in something super safe. Chinese treasuries, maybe? Is there even such a thing <_>_>
"Chinese Treasuries"... Yeah, real safe.
5 million.
I'd continue to live with my parents, ride my motorcycle and shoot my guns. I'd also probably run an MMA gym and try to live off of that and the residual income from the remainder of the 5MM.
Hell, my understanding is that, if you were to get bored of this incredible existence, you could parlay your time running your own projects into a top business school anyway. Plus, the GMAT's an easy test (relative to other graduate school entrance exams) and you'd have all the time in the world to study for it.
$5MM after tax and risk free - that statistically beats any education/job combo in short term.
In long term, however, we would have to know if you are prohibited from taking the grad school/job of your dreams forever. If not, take $5MM, then go to your dream school/job. If yes, then if your dream job is a lawyer or a surgeon, with appropriate grad school for that, you might consider declining the check. I'm sure that a banker would qualify too.
http://financialedge.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1109/Education-Tha…
Il take the money in a heartbeat. But if HBS was my thing i would still take the money, pay my way into HBS and have plenty left to make it rain OR grab 500 000 build a hospital in africa, do a couple of things here and there and you will have your golden ticket into HBS and still have 4.5 left
Those who respond dream school/job have probably not had to find out the hard way how tough it is to save even 100k on a 300k job, let alone 1mm or 5mm. Either that or they are already set (landed up on the right trading desk or IB group, under a great MD and at the best time in the market) and well on their way to making that kind of money or already have a back up, like trust fund, rich daddy, etc. Realistically saving 5mm tax free would require you to earn about 15mm over about a decade. Good luck with that you BSDs. Just in case you haven't read headlines lately, all banks have cut down pay drastically and there is no particular reason you can count on a job let alone the big payouts in the last decade. If you have 5mm in the bank, you are basically financially free and can do whatever the hell you please with your time without kissing ass or showing up to slog at work.
Like the average starting salary for an HBS grad is like 130k. Based on that the lifetime earnings of a top B-school grad are much more than 3 million. Even assuming they only make 130k a year for the rest of their career they're still making more than 3 million
The $5mm post-tax check is certainly worth far more than the expected value of any realistic job, especially in this compensation environment, no matter how talented you are. Still, one could make the argument that a job such as "apprentice of PTJ" would be worth more than $5mm when you adjust for the fantastic learning experience.
Current grads looking forward are probably facing GINI compression that older grads did not have to face. So in all likelihood, current HBS grads will earn less (inflation adjusted) over their lifetimes.
Slaves! Wake up!
A few points:
Even if the PV of your future earnings are equal to $5MM, the $5MM in cash now if far superior. Why? Because you don't have to work for the next 30 years of your life (i.e. most of your life) to earn it. Your "calculations" don't take into account the value/opportunity cost of 30 years of freedom... I can't believe I've just had to type that!
If you can't live better and have a more fulfilling career with $5MM cash now than getting into a business school, then you have bigger problems than being able to get into a good business school (both on a career & personal level). I mean, do you really think you'll be the kind of guy that will demand the CEO post or more carried interest? Doesn't sound like it... On a personal level, don't you have self directed goals? Or do you need a "path" to be determined by someone else (i.e. a corporation that will take the majority of the fruits of your labour).
Bonus point... Schwarzman & Peterson (founders of Blackstone) set up their firm with only a few hundred thousand dollars and paid their previous employers 50% of their firm's earnings for 3 years just to get the freedom of doing their own thing... By picking option 2 you are paying $5 MM in cash to be someone's bitch.
Cheque every single time. $5mm on 5% bonds, $250k/year with no effort at all. I can definitely live happily on that.
^^ Inflation. Stick it in utility stocks instead.
A friend of mine pointed this out... Apparently, the Winklevoss twins attended Said business school (Oxford) a year or so after reaching a $65MM settlement... thoughts?
Fuckwit squared.
So I take it you don't feel sorry for them with all their social network "travails"...
They just wanted to bang some Oxford chicks, go to ski trips, get drunk while snorting coke from strippers' tits and have the best time of their lives in general. Oxford Said guys run the show in Oxford and are at the top of the social hierarchy there. Just show up at some of the local bars with your Said jacket and you'll basically get free pussy. Oxford Said's prestige is unparalleled in Oxford and the brand and the social experience are something money can't buy.
LOL, I understand you're being sarcastic, but still, that is not true at all. The dudes at All Souls College and the Rhodes Scholars are at the top of the hierarchy. The Oxford Union (debating society) officers also seem to have quite a bit of influence. I don't know to what extent though.
Said's a great business school, but I think that largely has to do with the Oxford brand name, as it is fairly new.
I think the key word is 'after.' If it has to be one or the other, there's really no question there.
woops, nvm
OK, folks. You persuaded me. Now I know what to do next time someone offers me a $5MM tax free check...
I will go for $5 million check... Overall money can buy almost everything..
I'll take the latter. Don't care much about the money.
you do know that ~$1 mil will probably get you admission into your dream b-school, right?
Hell, even if I was as obsessed as some people about a top b-school, if it took 4.5 mil to get admitted, I'd take the money and give 4.5 to em.
Of course, as others have said, in reality, I'd try my hand at my own business and hopefully make money on the way to me actually earning a spot at my dream school if I choose to go... My dream job is owning a successful business that I started anyways.
a $1m donation would really be enough to get into HBS?
That's BS. HBS alone has a 10 figure endowment. They aren't going to lower their standards for an extra buck.
take the money, pay my way into HBS come out a consulting god... case closed
Coming out of HBS, you can get MBB consulting quite easily and then after that you get your pick of jobs in corporate strategy and business development.
guess i should not have skipped all those pages lol
Wait a minute... you'd be a "consultant" after having $5 mill cash? Why?
I'm curious.
It seems like some of you really like working??? I don't get it....
I work full-time, have a part time gig, go to school part time and volunteer at 2 organizations... its just what I do...
PLUSSSSSSS there is this amazing thing that happens inside of the mind of women... when you get it in their head that you are only "a limited time offer" they stay on thier best behaviour and keep their legs open...
eventually I'll slow down but not now
I like staying busy also, but the only reason i allow myself to be chained to my desk every day is so i can have money to go do things i actually enjoy. if i had the $5MM there is no way I'd be going to work anymore.
Go to HBS and become Mark Mobius' Protege in Singapore. Take his job when he kicks the can. Get paid a shit ton to travel around the world and run some of the largest EM funds out there
Come at me WSO
Holy fuck. This just made me jizz my pants. Doing HBS and then running a huge EM fund while travelling all over the world, making sick connections, and making tons of cash, is the ideal life.
Private jet or not, business travel is probably THE most overrated experience on the planet. I would say you'd be begging for mercy right around that third flight . . .
It's not overrated if you're flying first-class or better yet, a private jet, and going to cool places.
Brady4MVP, what in IM would you really like to do? I feel like the Capital Group and macro funds tend to have very different focuses.
My boss is gone 9 weeks a year for business travel to places lik argentina, brazil, bahamas, dominican republic, etc...she's been doing it for 15 years and doesn't mind it. My father did that for 4 years and didn't mind it much either. I agree tho is not for everyone (It certainly is for me I can 100% guarantee it).
I don't know if Mobius flies private but I can assure you that his business trips are top of the line across the board in just about everything (Restaurants, Hotels, transporation, perks, and whatever other shit you could think of). He's been doing it 25+ years and I can promess you if he hated it he would have stopped a long time ago. Its not like he needs the money.
Brady subscribe to this blog:
http://mobius.blog.franklintempleton.com/why/
30 Million Miles. Suck it Ryan Bingham
Travelling for work can be fun if you have at least a couple of cool cities that you visit regularly and you have control over your schedule... I have been fortunate to have had this at several periods of my career... It's great as you get to really know the places and the people well... it's not the flying, it's the destination, who you are with and what you are doing that matters.
$5 million and setting your own agenda trumps being some fund manager's due diligence b*tch in terms of lifestyle and probably earnings. If you have a decent skill-set / experience and can network, you should be able to work with them or people like them on a few ideas you initiate anyway.
You could spend a year doing 1 month immersion / networking in 6 major cities that interest you and still have 6 months in your hometown.
You guys are insane with all of this talk of business travel being fun & easy and quite frankly makes me wonder how much you've done. Not to start a pissing contest but I've done more than 250,000 miles for IBM:
1 - The flights are not the only issue. You still have to find ways to eat right, workout, pay your bills, maintain friendships, get laid, save money, etc, etc, etc all while out of your element. It doesn't matter whether you're in first class or not, you still have to run your own life and it sucks to do it from the road.
2 - Maybe I'm just plain older than some of you (WSO is filled with kids) but there is a WONDERFUL feeling that comes from sleeping in your own bed at night. I guess if you're 20 in some crappy apartment with roommates, that doesn't matter much. But I have a nice home and sleeping in your standard 410 sq. foot hotel room is fucking dumb when you have 3200 sq feet at home.
3 - I'm sure that Mobius does a lot more travel than what you guys are talking about here. If you signed on to Mobius for only 9 weeks of travel he'd probably tell you to go pound sand. Besides, you don't go on those trips and then visit the fucking spa - you go to work and the you go on to the next destination. The only tours you'll be doing is of Terminal 2A looking for something to eat that isn't Khlav Kalash and crab juice.
he's on the road 250 days a year
First of all, Khlav Kalash is fucking delicious. And second, what are you supposed to drink with it if not crab juice? Fucking Mountain Dew???
Ha! I knew one of the "old guys" would get that reference first. Do they even show that episode any more???
They probably don't, and that's a shame because it's one of the funniest ever and it speaks to what an utter shithole NYC is.
Yeah I heard that is basically a little "taboo" to show it because of the WTC. But you're right, its a hilarious episode. Doesn't Homer get robbed in like his first two minutes in NYC? Man, that episode came out so long ago!
I was just looking for a video clip of that scene, and now I know why they don't run that episode any more. Thank you Steve Jobs for enabling video editing for any dipshit with a Mac:
Oh damn that sucks!!! That's actually kind of tasteless for someone to do that. It's a great episode but I can respect that they don't show it. People shouldn't edit it like this :(
It becomes a serious question at 1 million
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Qui et aut eius rem. Voluptates voluptatum explicabo asperiores omnis. Quisquam temporibus id dignissimos est voluptatem debitis.