AMA: Wells Fargo Financial Analyst Program for Commercial Banking

NakedCalls's picture
Rank: Baboon | 147

Here is my overdue write up on Wells' FAP and thoughts on the process/ program. This is most applicable to Commercial Banking or CRE divisions.

wells fargo commercial financial analyst program

I applied with less than 1-year experience, got the offer, and ultimately declined - - they countered w/ better corporate title, base, sign-on, and bonus % increase.

Applying to the Financial Analyst Program

You either apply to a specific location (i.e. SF/LA/NYC Office) or to the general program (normal recruiting).

  1. Site Specific: These opportunities pop up sporadically but if you miss the 1 day to submit your application for normal recruiting or want to be 100% sure you get the office of your choice, this is the only way. Also, you spend ~3 full years with these people and they will typically invest more in you.
  2. General Program: Those that apply to the program through normal recruiting will go to a centralized underwriting office for 1 year and be literally immersed in deals/ credit. Typically this is Phoenix for West Coasters. Wells' promises the "office of your choice" after this year is over - this is B.S. unless you have this stipulation in writing. Placement is a highly political process.

Program Overview for Wells Fargo FAP

  1. Year 1: Take 2nd semesters of Fin. and Management Accounting and go to 1st year, 1 week Credit Camp in SF or Charlotte. After Site specifics stay at their offices and Centralized analyst group gets placed - - this can be anywhere from NYC to Visalia, CA (Google if you don't understand the point I'm illustrating).
  2. Year 2: 2nd year, 2nd week of Credit Camp.
  3. Year 3: Last year; 3rd year, 3rd week of Credit Camp. Hopefully you have demonstrated some skills and talent otherwise you have just churned and burned yourself.

Exit Opportunities for Wells Fargo

When it comes to this program, you are either in or you're out.

  1. CMTP: 6 month intensive credit training in SF. Your Home Office must sponsor you. The intent is to bring you back as a Relationship Manager (Sales role). Again, highly political process. They say it's for the high achievers of each class which is true BUT, unless it's written in your offer or you know someone, don't bet your life on it.
  2. Portfolio Manager/ Credit Analyst: Manage a portfolio of credits w/ lower sales goals or analyze credits - - the latter is their worst case scenario.
  3. Out.

What Can I Expect For Compensation at Wells Fargo?

Experienced: 60-70K Base, 0-15K Sign-On, and 8-10% FYE Bonus
Non: Experienced 60K Base, 0-5K Sign-On, and 8% FYE Bonus

Feel free to ask me anything about Wells, the program, or commercial banking as a whole. I've seen both sides of CB - credit and sales, however I should point out that Wells isn't bifurcated in this regard.

Learn more about the program below.

You can learn more about Wells Fargo on the Wall Street Oasis Company Database.

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Comments (121)

Nov 28, 2014

What did you do beforehand? Was it relevant? Did it prepare you in any way?

Would you do it again? Seems like you were on the fence about taking the job.

What do you see yourself doing in the future? CMTP?

FYI: I started in FAP out of school

Nov 29, 2014

1 year of Tech Banking on the Sales side (think SVB) and currently a credit analyst. So, very relevant and having been on both sides (sales & credit) gives me a unique perspective.

Would I do it again? I'll have to make that decision in 2 or so years - let me clarify something. FAP is a good opportunity but what put me on the fence in the 1st place is that I have an amazing mentor/ network at my current bank.

Future? CMTP is a definite possibility. There isn't a comparable program out there in the marketplace today.

Nov 28, 2014

Hey,

Thanks for the great post. I may be doing the SFAP this upcoming summer. Any advice on how to excel/stand out in the span of 10 weeks?

Also, does the bonus vary on what LOB you are in?
And would you say any lines are better than the others in regards to career advancement?

Lastly,
Any tips on playing the political game so that you are a shoe-in for CMTP?

Nov 29, 2014

Excel/ Stand Out: You have 10 weeks to audition yourself - be likeable, stay late, and fit in. You want to be first in and last out but somehow go to all the HHs and weekend ragers w/ the analysts. Attention to detail but always look for the big picture.

LOB bonus does vary - Corporate Banking and Specialty Lending groups have the highest. Having said this, Commercial Banking gives you the best exposure thus career advancement. Example: The deal structure on Goodyear's (Corporate Banking) ABL $2Bn Revolver is so boring it's like watching paint dry, however the structure on "Al's Tire Barn" (Commercial Banking) $2MM Revolver would be a lot more complex and detailed.

Shoe-in for CMTP: Your home office RVP needs to believe you're capable of being a high producing RM and will stay w/ Wells for the long haul. Get to know people in high places and impress the hell out of them so they take you under their wing.

Dec 2, 2014

I wouldn't be surprised if a ton of people disagree with this, but I can 100% attest that my critical thinking, finance, and accounting skills were built off of these types of small deals. Now I work on the $bn deals, but it's just not the same (cooler in some respects).

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Nov 29, 2014

What do you think the RVPs are pulling in comp wise? Or even the SVPs / LTMs?

I work for a regional bank and was given an offer for a VP RM role in 1 of their RCBOs but the offer didn't excite me - matter of fact, 2 years later I'm making way more money than their offer.

Also - is it pretty much known that you have to move to get promotions? A lot of the top guys in the RCBOs seem to be transplants.

How's credit culture? Constrictive/ conservative or can you get deals done their with minimal push back / conditions.

Is the Capital Markets relationship good or adversarial? How often do they get involved with the RMs?

What's are the top VPs getting paid in terms of annual bonuses?

WF seems to expand then cut based on the market - they were on a hiring/growth spree 2-3 years ago but now seem to be quiet. Am I wrong about that?

Nov 29, 2014

I didn't choose Wells in the end, so I can't answer some of these Qs.

Almost all the RVPs/ LTMs are transplants. In CA, I only know of a few that progressed from RM > LTM > RVP. Most of the time, they are poached from another bank.

Wells has gotten quiet as far as hiring. Ive noticed it with the analysts where a ton get hired in anticipation for regional growth, do their 3 years but then get passed over for CMTP - essentially pushing these people out of the bank.

Dec 2, 2014

Great thread though I'd add some color

not sure what comp is for RVPs and LTMs but for VPs and SVPs the base is around 120k and 145k respectively (numbers are median, they have a range). Bonus is a percentage/ multiple of that. I've heard around 250-300k all in and 300-400 from a top producer. (full fledged RM with his own portfolio)

Not sure about needing to move around to get promoted but yes there are a lot of SVPs and LTMs poached from other banks.

Credit culture is conservative but Wells is big on "expert judgment". If the RCBO can justify the reason to stretch they can usually do the deal. However, Wells frequently loses to other banks who are looser on structure, especially in this environment. You can get deals done but sometimes Wells can be a little too restrictive/ hard to work with but i get why, their conservative underwriting is why they got through the financial crisis so well.

Don't have another bank to compare to but from what I've seen the relationship between the investment bank and the commercial bank is very collaborative. IB and CM fees count towards the commercial banks revenue goals and the IB guys don't have their own balance sheet so they need to use the commercial/corporate bank's for capital markets transactions which means that any capital markets transaction using Wells balance sheet has to go through the commercial/ corporate banking credit approval process. IB also leverages the commercial/ corporate bank's existing relationships (via lending etc.) to get their foot in the door for IB business. So for those monkeys that aren't as familiar an example would be Company XYZ has a syndicated revolver with Wells to buy inventory and fund receivables. Commercial bank would manage the relationship and the revolver. Commercial banker gets wind the company is looking to do an acquisition, calls in his dedicated I banker (the commercial bank has a dedicated middle market i banking group at wells) and lev fin to pitch. If wells gets tabbed to be the lead underwriter on say an upsized revolver, a Term loan B, and a high yield bond, the commercial bank would underwrite their hold in the new revolver as well as the TLB (wouldn't be held by wells, would be sold to investors but it has to be reviewed via the credit process in the worst case scenario that Wells cannot sell off the entire issue, ditto for the bridge loan supporting the HY bond). Lev fin would then syndicate, execute, and distribute the Revolver not committed to by the commercial bank, TLB, and HY to other banks and investors.

Not sure about the wells hiring patterns.

Nov 28, 2014

Thanks for the quick response.

Any comments of the Wholesale Risk business?
Also, you can apply to CMTP without being part of the FAP? I'm only asking because you said you turned down wells but said you were considering it.

Nov 29, 2014

Risk will typically pay less initially and over time. Doesn't mean that you won't learn a lot. I would pick the other 3 groups I mentioned.

Typically you can't go to CMTP if you don't do FAP, however CMTP does reserve a # of places for MBAs (w/ no experience) or Experienced analysts they've been watching - the latter is my situation. I have good connections and have maintained good relationships w/ the office that recruited me - even referred business their way.

A helpful tip to realize (that I didn't a few years ago) is that the "door" is never closed unless you close it - so GregT turned down a VP, RM role and I turned down a Officer, FAP role, if you maintain relationships and your standing in the marketplace, you'll always be on their radar.

Mar 1, 2017

Describe the three financial statements. (income statement, cash flow, balance sheet)

Nov 29, 2014

What are the most typical exit opps for the CRE lending track after the analyst stint and no CMTP?

Nov 29, 2014

This is mere speculation - look at CBRE and RE Division for BB/MM. Honestly, I have no desire to go into RE so my knowledge on this is limited.

May 26, 2018

If you want to leave, then there are plenty of developers that would take you on in a heartbeat. If not, you progress into a junior RM role where they start putting you in front of clients.

Nov 29, 2014

This thread came at a very good moment.

I currently attend a semi-target MBA and was offered a spot as a summer associate at WF commercial banking, and they're bringing us as RM.
I did engineering in undergrad and have experience in public infrastructure and utilities so my interest lies in their GIB group (Gov't and Institutional Banking). However, I'm currently torn between choosing GIB (commercial banking) and continuing to pursue public finance IB roles.
- If I go with government banking/GIB, are there any skills that are transferable for public finance roles?
- How hard is it to go from one specialty group to another (eg: from GIB to real estate)?
- What are the exit options for commercial banking? Do people even exit after completing the CMTP? Exit to credit rating agency possibility?
- What's the pay like for new MBA level hire?
- How much sales is expected as RM? What's the quota like?

Thanks!

Nov 29, 2014

Clarify your 1st point: You're a summer associate yet being brought in as a RM? That doesn't make sense.

-A lot of times, you pigeon hole yourself by specializing too soon. As long as you have a good credit foundation, you should be able to switch.

-Only reason you'd leave after CMTP is if another bank gave you a lot of incentive or you don't want to be a lender.

-RM Sales Expectations/ Quota: I'm speculating based on my bank. For new RMs, it's $20MM in new credit (not shadow, referral, etc.). I would expect Wells to be somewhere around there, maybe more or less depending on your offer.

Nov 28, 2014

I think what he meant was that he's having a summer associate intetnship with the ultimate goal of bringing him back as an RM. I'm gaussing it's a lot like their SFAP program except it would be SRMP?

This may be a dumb question but what excatly is deemed new credit? Is it simply new leads or does it include increasing a current revolver as well? And how are risk RMs measured? Since they are in charge of distressed loans, there wouldn't be sales goals. Is there performance measures on their ability to repair or liquidate these loans? Sorry for any bad grammar. I'm writing this on my phone throughout the heat-Knicks game

Nov 29, 2014

I'm talking about this:
http://myfuture.wf.com/pr-sp-mba-cb
Here's what it says on the website:
"We will consider associates who successfully complete their summer internship for full-time opportunities in the Commercial Banking MBA Relationship Manager Program. In this 18-month program, you will learn how Commercial Banking does business and makes lending decisions. You also will work directly with our clients -- mid-sized companies with revenues from $20 million to more than $500 million from all types of industries -- alongside our experienced client relationship team members. The program will prepare you for a relationship manager position in an RCBO."

Basically they gave me an offer to come in as a summer associate with potential of converting it into full time.

More dumb questions:
1. What happens during those 18 months and after?
2. "As long as you have a good credit foundation, you should be able to switch." where would one exit after commercial banking gig?
3. How much would you say part of the job is sales? 50%? 100%?
4. Most complicated loans you ever structured? or they're all pretty straight forward?
5. Any challenges (besides sales pressure)?

I swear I design bridges for a living and I still can't figure this commercial banking gig thing...

Nov 30, 2014

Hello,

This might sound like a stupid question but what happens after the 3 years are up? Like is this basically a paid internship? Or is it a possible to finish the program within 1-2 years?

Thank you

Nov 29, 2014

The program is designed to be a very clear cut path to RM (Sales/ Lending) role. I suppose if one had an amazing network/ ability to bring in business, they would expedite you and move you from a Financial Analyst role to RM.

Point of this is not to just "finish" the program. It's to build a solid credit foundation while teaching you how to be a successful lender.

Nov 30, 2014

Thanks for the fast response.( outrightoptions) So basically if you get in you start out as a Financial analyst and will eventually transition into those 2 roles you mention once the 3 years are up? Also when you say you are either in or out do you mean you have to leave Wellsfargo if you don't make the cut? Or will you stay in your financial analyst role?

Thanks

Nov 29, 2014

The role is a 3 year term - they send you to CMTP, bring you back as a portfolio manager or credit analyst, or you're out of the bank.

Dec 2, 2014

Do you have any color on how corporate banking (credit / rm) path diverges from commercial banking at wells as far as compensation (including annual pay bumps and % bonus goes). Also is structure and career progression the same? Does corporate banking get an annual 10k pay bump (market convention at most banks).

Also would you mind sharing salary progression after year 1 of FAP?

I personally know a guy who took a FAP role out of undergrad in the international group (is this a hybrid between commercial and corporate?) and was offered 65k, not sure what the annual pay bump is.

Nov 29, 2014

Can't say how much year to year increase would be but corporate banking will pay more than commercial.

Salary progression from what I've heard from friends in the program and what my office was promising is anywhere from 5-10k based off performance.

Nov 28, 2014

What office were you getting recruited if you don't mind me asking?
And what group?

Nov 29, 2014

Last question if I may. What do you know about WF's GIB? How does the commercial banker and pub fin banker work together?

Dec 2, 2014

Salary bumps are 5-8% per year (will be less than 10% most likely). So even at 10%, it's at most 7k if a 70k starting salary, which will more likely be 60-65k. Just data points.

Dec 2, 2014

Salary bumps are 5-8% per year (will be less than 10% most likely). So even at 10%, it's at most 7k if a 70k starting salary, which will more likely be 60-65k. Just data points.

Feb 19, 2015

deleted

Nov 30, 2014

Thanks for the fast response.

Do you guys know the average starting salary/ progression levels of credit analyst vs portfolio manager after you finish the program?

Thanks

Nov 28, 2014

Anyone have any comments on the Healthcare Corp Bank Group at Wells?

Nov 29, 2014

My colleague received a seasoned VP/RM offer at $135K base, $35K sign on and $75K stock that had a cliff vesting. They really wanted him and kept working on an offer and this was their final.

Annual bonus is discretionary and loosely tied to performance - i think 50% of base was quoted if you are having a good year.

It should be noted my buddy stayed at his community bank and is making way more money than the WF offer.

In WF - you have dedicated teams and groups to help in U/W and structuring a deal. In smaller banks, it is up to you to U/W the deal and get it through Credit Admin - you wear a TON of hats which is why I think the top performers at regionals and community banks get paid more.

Working on a $2.0MM revolver with a full hold requires a ton of analysis and U/W at a small bank level - while the $200MM syndicated corp banking revolvers are much bigger deals, the role you play in the deal will be much less than the $2.0MM commercial deal.

Just my opinion. Both have pluses and minuses. I chose to be a big fish in a small pond - which has pluses and minuses.

Nov 29, 2014

Deleted. Double post.

Nov 29, 2014

I have another question.

I did a LinkedIn search on "wells fargo relationship manager" and it seems like you don't really need an MBA or you don't really need a top undergrad to break into commercial banking (RM).

On the other hand, of the three EVPs that interviewed me at Wells, one has a Booth MBA, one has a UNC MBA and the other Duke Fuqua MBA. One went IB -> CmB. The other Went CmB -> Project Finance -> CmB. One has stayed with WF CmB for 24 years.

I find it odd that you have an RM with Booth MBA and RM with podunk state undergrad. Why do I see such diverse background? Is the gig that good that people move over from IB?

Nov 29, 2014

To your last point: your school/ grades won't determine what kind of producer you will be - yes, you'd rather bank on a Booth guy than a Valdosta St undergrad - but your success in the marketplace isn't confined by where you went to school.

Work-life balance is much better here and if you're a top producer, the money will be on par w/ IB - W/L balance considered.

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Dec 2, 2014

Another $0.02 - The WF compensation structure, on the commercial banking side, is not linear. It starts low, and doesn't increase much (comparatively), then you hit a certain point and it hikes up a ton.

Dec 3, 2014

As an incoming first year I'd be eager to hear around what point does that income really start to jump up?

Dec 3, 2014

some stuff is this thread is on and some is complete shit.

Nov 28, 2014

What stuff would you say is shit?

Dec 3, 2014

Any internal hires for the FAP program? I've completed the screening -> Written assessment -> In person interview and I'm moving towards the final round at the location. Any idea what to expect?

Nov 29, 2014

Commercial Banking (and all Banking at certain levels) is really sales driven. So I don't care if you have a Harvard MBA - if you can't sale you are basically going to be a back office analyst not making much coin in CBanking.

This might answer the question about why you have a wife range of academic achievement in Commercial Banking.

Give me a guy who went to a podunk State School that took accounting 101 but is hungry and has great social skills - I'll take that guy over a genius 4.0 from Yale who has troubles relating to people and is socially akward. Speaking only to Commercial Banking.

Dec 3, 2014

Any internal hires for this position?

Dec 5, 2014

If the RM does his own underwriting, what the portfolio manager do?

Nov 28, 2014
IntlPlayer:

If the RM does his own underwriting, what the portfolio manager do?

From my experience at Wells:

Corporate Banking has a RM/PM split. RMs go win syndication business & introduce other products to clients (IB, lev fin, treasury). PMs underwrite the syndicated deals for WF's book, clear them with credit committee, and follow quarterly earnings on portfolio names. This specialization allows Corp Banking groups to manage more credits. We covered north of 100 credits with 3 analysts & 3 PMs (generally 1 analyst & 1 PM cover a name). Our loan book was north of $5B between the 6 of us.

Commercial Banking just has 1 role; the RM. They do both of the above jobs, but much less emphasis on cap markets & advisory. They cover very few companies. This is truly a relationship business model.

    • 1
Nov 28, 2014

What about capital finance?

Dec 5, 2014
Cries:
IntlPlayer:

If the RM does his own underwriting, what the portfolio manager do?

From my experience at Wells:

Corporate Banking has a RM/PM split. RMs go win syndication business & introduce other products to clients (IB, lev fin, treasury). PMs underwrite the syndicated deals for WF's book, clear them with credit committee, and follow quarterly earnings on portfolio names. This specialization allows Corp Banking groups to manage more credits. We covered north of 100 credits with 3 analysts & 3 PMs (generally 1 analyst & 1 PM cover a name). Our loan book was north of $5B between the 6 of us.

Commercial Banking just has 1 role; the RM. They do both of the above jobs, but much less emphasis on cap markets & advisory. They cover very few companies. This is truly a relationship business model.

Any thoughts on the career progression of sales versus credit? I've been told that most banks would never let a pure sales guy "run" the bank since there's so many more aspects to running the bank besides growing ones portfolio. From corporate banking, who laterals over to a cap markets/advisory group (pick one) easier, the sales guy (who can market or drum up business but maybe not as deep analytically) or the credit guy (who's aided in drumming up business but is more analytically astute)?

Nov 29, 2014

If you're coming in post MBA to a RM role, can you switch to PM or credit role after CMTP?

    • 1
Dec 17, 2014

So you didn't take the role; did you take a different role similar to this?

Jan 26, 2015

Hi,
I just had an in-person interview for FAP about a week ago. I had a good feeling, but am getting worried because haven't heard back. About how long do they take to decide? And about how many usually get to the in-person round? Thanks.

kmonkey

Nov 28, 2014

I've aready been through the process for this summer, and for me it took about to weeks to hear back after both rounds.

Jan 27, 2015

I applied for the fulltime FAP 2015 Jan. 8th and still haven't received interview request nor have I received a decline notification. Is it possible they're still going through interviews?

Sep 25, 2015

I just received the email from the SVP for FAP interview (phone interview). If you'd like to know where she works and are able to provide the detailed information about interview, etc, please feel free to message me. Otherwise, I'd love to hear your tips/advice regarding FAP interview.

Thanks!

Sep 25, 2015

"Walk me through your resume"- yes. That or "tell me about yourself"... every single interview I've ever been to, and everyone I've talked to that has ever had an interview, has asked this question.

The obvious aside, I got "what would you look at when making credit decisions" and "how do you feel about sales" (my interview was last Thursday). Do you live in Chicago by chance?

Sep 25, 2015

What did you answer to those two questions? And congrats on the interview, how did it go?

I'm in Los Angeles, actually.

Sep 25, 2015

I had every sort of behavioral question plus a few tech questions like "what are the financial statements"; "how are these statements related". Within two days I received an email saying I made it to the final round! Anyone know what type of questions I should expect?

Sep 25, 2015

From what I've gathered from existing posts is...

comp = same salary + 50% less bonus (alot less hours)

Nothing like IB, you won't get shit for exit ops.

Sep 25, 2015

so these guys can pull in 100k first year out of college and work 9-5?

Sep 25, 2015

Somehow I doubt it's just 9-5. And I don't think it's that much $$ either...maybe someone else can provide some input?

Sep 25, 2015

Totally depends on the firm... they all tend to structure CB a lot differently than the other but I will say for a comp:

JPM's CB is divided up into the Middle Market ($10-$500M in sales) and Mid Corporate ($500-$2.5Bn in sales)

Middle Market guys work 40 hours a week, get paid street base of $60 if you're only in NY, get no bonus, and get no yearly raise.

Mid Corporate guys work probably 60 hours per week, all get paid street base, and make roughly $20,000-$30,000 each year in a bonus

Sep 25, 2015

what about regional banks in the middle market? i'm talking about places like HSBC, SunTrust, Chevy Chase Bank, Harris, etc.

Expect about 50-60k with no bonus or a measly one, with a 40 hr week?

What are the career paths like for these guys?

Sep 25, 2015
patekphilippe:

what about regional banks in the middle market? i'm talking about places like HSBC, SunTrust, Chevy Chase Bank, Harris, etc.

Expect about 50-60k with no bonus or a measly one, with a 40 hr week?

What are the career paths like for these guys?

By Harris, do you mean Harris Williams? If so, I am certain that comp and hours are well higher than the figures you referenced. Had a friend from highschool that used to work for Harris Williams - his base was $55K and his bonus was $55K (he started in summer '04).

Certainly, exit ops will suffer but MM IB is still miles ahead of most CB jobs.

Sep 25, 2015

Regional commercial banks like ones you mentioned (and regional arms of bigger banks like Chase) look at about 40-50 base with little to no bonus, 40 hours a week. Career path is usually straight from analyst to RM (relationship manager).

Sep 25, 2015
GameTheory:

Regional commercial banks like ones you mentioned (and regional arms of bigger banks like Chase) look at about 40-50 base with little to no bonus, 40 hours a week. Career path is usually straight from analyst to RM (relationship manager).

What do RM's make and how long does it take for an analyst to become an RM?

Sep 25, 2015

will i look out of place wearing a patek philippe watch if i am a commercial banking analyst?

Sep 25, 2015

why are the exit ops considered so poor?

You're doing cash flow analysis and putting together reports..seems very similar to ib monkey work

Sep 25, 2015

I wouldn't walk into a CB as an analyst wearing more than a $1,000 watch. Even that you'd look semi out of place.

The career path isn't exactly straight to RM anymore. JPM is pushing their analysts to go to the title of "Underwriter" which is basically an analyst with a coverage portfolio of specific clients (instead of the entire umbrella of the firm) and more responsibility (easier to get fired if you miss something and there has to be a write down).

Underwriter pay is not much better than analyst pay, although there are yearly raises (I think mainly inflation-based).

To become an RM these days I feel like it takes 4-5 years depending on your office needs. Some people can make the move in 1 year, but it's not going to be Manhattan or downtown Chicago (think Libertyville for Chi and Brooklyn for NYC). The pay there is better, but largely based on bonus. You're given a set of clients (a portion of the last RM to leave), but you are expected to bring in at least 1 big deal your first year (which can be very, very tough consider you'll be in your twenties trying to get someone in their forties/fifties to hand you their business, whic they built from the ground up).

Overall I'd stay away from CB because you risk getting pigeon-holed into a career that could take 5-7 years to take you into the six figure payout range.

Sep 25, 2015

I think exit ops for commercial banking are fairly weak because it deals strictly with low-mid markets without the product groups of corporate or investment banking (depending on the banks group structure). So in commercial banking it is basically just lending (not very profitable), whereas in corporate banking you deal with underwriting syndications, exposure to capital markets, and project finance. I think some banks may include corporate banking under commercial banking, but typically not.

Sep 25, 2015

Corporate banking analysts work from 50 to 75 hours a week typically (depending on deal flow). Face time is usually not important and working from home can be done on the weekends. Pay is 50 to 65K depending on which year you are and bonuses are from 5k to 25k. You will deal with many of the same topics that investment bankers look at (cash flows, risks, valuation, etc), but the focus is on debt and looking for higher ROE services/products to sell to the companies.

Sep 25, 2015

Corp banking > Commercial banking. At BAML you might be working with IBD, but it will be more of a support aka providing a revolving loan or some type of lending rather than working together as equals. Corporate banking is pretty solid and WF is growing pretty strongly.

Sep 25, 2015

I agree 100%. Wells Fargo is solid and you should be able to get plenty of FT interviews with corp banking on your resume.

Sep 25, 2015

Damn. Two other people told me BAML definitely. haha. I'm so confused...

--
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say."

Sep 25, 2015
nutsaboutWS:

Damn. Two other people told me BAML definitely. haha. I'm so confused...

Thats fine that people disagree, but did these people give you any factually based reasons supporting their recommendations.

Here is my point, if I sell you a car I will tell you how great the car is all by itself. I am not going to sell you the car saying that it will be mistaken for a benz. Seems to me that BAML is trying to sell you on the IB connection rather than selling you on how great commercial banking is.

Commercial bankers deal with credit, bank loans, traditional lending. Where do you think traditional lending fits in with what investment bankers do?

Sep 25, 2015

Yeah i know.. BAML is 50MM - 2B. They say they source the deals for the IBD group. My friend says he thinks BAML will be better because 1st its a better bank, and 2nd you will analyze companies more at BAML. The reason he says this is cus at WF you just give loans to credit worthy customers (disney, etc). at BAML you will have to prove that these companies will be able to pay their debt obligations

Thoughts?

--
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say."

Sep 25, 2015

Your friend is talking out of his ass. WF is a great bank, extremely well run and conservative. Lesser known in the east, but that is going to change with their acquisition of Wachovia. Corporate banking is not just handing loans to Disney. It involves a lot more than that. Your dealing with HUGE loans, maybe Syndication, absolutely working with IB on some issues.

BAML would be decent experience, but I think your friend hears the name and thinks it is a better deal. Thats like saying JPMorgan ops is a better job than boutique IB. The name on the card means nothing, what you DO at that job means everything.

Sep 25, 2015

ok thanks.. Any other way for me to figure out how I should make a decision

--
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say."

Sep 25, 2015

How about which place do you like better? If you are competent, have a solid GPA and network you will be able to get whatever you want regardless of which ever place you pick.

Sep 25, 2015

From what I've heard about those roles, both are similar but corporate banking = public companies whereas commercial banking = private companies (albeit large ones). Could be wrong so someone pls correct me if so.

Sep 25, 2015
pantherdb26:

From what I've heard about those roles, both are similar but corporate banking = public companies whereas commercial banking = private companies (albeit large ones). Could be wrong so someone pls correct me if so.

Thats about right. Different banks have different lending standards for their commercial segment, but this is a good description.

Sep 25, 2015

I liked them both. I felt good with each team.

--
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say."

Sep 25, 2015

bump

--
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say."

Sep 25, 2015

PM me.

Sep 25, 2015

BAML Commercial Banking is not a bad place to be; the people are pretty chilled out and the work is easy. If you end up in their CMDP training program, it is a decent place to learn traditional credit analysis (which is useful in many places). Without the program your training is dependent on how good your senior analyst or underwriter is. Their General Industries group is where a lot of the interesting, but smaller loan amount stuff happens, but their HIG (Healthcare, Institutions & Government) deals with larger amounts, but the analysis is less interesting (IMHO anyway).

Who ever told you that you would have interaction with IBD is 100% lying to you. There is almost no interaction between the groups unless it is a share name and that never works out well. Also, nobody moves from commercial banking to IBD unless it is IBD at another bank.

Good luck.

Sep 25, 2015

Can you tell me more about the CMDP program that you know of? Thanks.

Sep 25, 2015

WF is growing and solid, and perhaps you will be able to move to IBD easier. Not a bad place to be in, growing bb.

Sep 25, 2015

Ok thanks everyone. Looks like WF it is

--
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say."

Sep 25, 2015

Congrats man!! Keep us posted on how it goes! Good luck!

Sep 25, 2015

Hey sorry to dig this up but I was wondering if anyone could tell me what it takes to break into corp banking/commerical banking out of a semi-target undergrad and how competitive the process is compared to IB recruitment. What is the culture and lifestyle like

Aug 31, 2016

What is the enviornment like for working in commercial/corporate banking in the south like Charlotte or Atlanta etc.?

May 26, 2018

Very relaxed. 50 hour weeks. Low COL means you can live well.

Sep 27, 2016

This is an excellent post!

I'm currently in the process of interviewing for a role in the CRE group within the FAP program. I have been working in PWM for the past 3.5 years and am itching to get out.

The FAP opportunity sounds great in order to get a credit background to build out my resume, but i'm trying to evaluate the financial implications. My current base is 2x the FAP analyst position, and my bonus is also at least 2x of the FAP position.

I view this opportunity as a great way to get into the RE industry, build a credit background, and not pay for a graduate degree. But the thought of moving before my bonus in January and taking the significant pay cut is a bit frightening.

Any thoughts/advice?

Nov 29, 2014

Each office has some leeway with Base however you won't get what you're making right now.

What do you want to do in RE?

Sep 29, 2016

How likely are they willing to make an exception though? Seems like they are pretty set on the Program Base when I interviewed (when I have relevant experience and have been in the credit space).

Sep 27, 2016

My main goal is to get the credit experience & training. I figure that would be a great opportunity to then either go into origination or make a switch into RE PE.

Ultimately, I feel like it's better to make this switch as opposed to paying for business school. I just hope they would be open to waiting until I get my last bonus!

Oct 21, 2016

What is typical base for a Relationship Manager 1 at Wells (Corporate Banking Portfolio Manager)? Of course have searched online but if anyone has direct knowledge would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Sep 27, 2016
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Nov 29, 2014
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