Comments (26)

May 8, 2012

can probably make it to MD level head of operations or head of risk or something to that effect if you are really good.

May 9, 2012

Yes, you can become a PM or trader at a HF via HF ops. I've seen it happen many many times, so you won't be limited to head of operations or COO role, though the former two are commendable. Take anything you can get.

May 9, 2012
Macro Arbitrage:

Yes, you can become a PM or trader at a HF via HF ops. I've seen it happen many many times, so you won't be limited to head of operations or COO role, though the former two are commendable. Take anything you can get.

can you please offer up an example? I just do not see why a HF would hire an ops guy to a trader role, when they can easily contact a headhunter and get a lineup of traders with experience in whatever niche that they have a need for.

From what I understand trader roles at HFs are very stats and math oriented and require prior trading experience as HFs do not want to train trading skills to those without trading experience.

May 9, 2012

Some of the smartest people I've talked to at Hedge Funds were risk managers/risk analysts.

How that translates to the trading side of things.. I'm honestly not 100% sure.. but I have a feeling Macro arb can answer that question for you.

May 10, 2012
rothyman:

Some of the smartest people I've talked to at Hedge Funds were risk managers/risk analysts.

How that translates to the trading side of things.. I'm honestly not 100% sure.. but I have a feeling Macro arb can answer that question for you.

not saying that risk folks aren't smart, usually they are very bright people. Just saying that their skillset has very little that is transferrable to a PM or trader role.

May 10, 2012

Israel Englander the manager of Millennium Partners, a $15bn multi-strat hedge fund, primarily does risk management. It's just a data point but an example nonetheless.

May 10, 2012

Israel Englander the manager of Millennium Partners, a $15bn multi-strat hedge fund, primarily does risk management. It's just a data point but an example nonetheless.

May 10, 2012

Edit: My comments below are for ops in general, I missed where you said hedge fund ops

-----

Depends on the group you start with. Operations and middle office is a huge world, and you can have a wide assortment of responsibilities. Personally, I've seen a lot of people go into prime brokerage and credit risk reporting. I saw one do front office IB (he was only in ops for 6 months and went to Princeton...so he was a bit of an exception I think), I got an interview for a S&T job out of the blue through a connection but failed it, a lot of people stay in and move up the ranks or transfer to non-front office positions (e.g. compliance, finance), one went to front office TSS, one went to become a CRM in the IB, based on linkedin it looks like one of my old coworkesr got into M&A at Citi after a bunch of lateral moves, etc. I also got an interview at Kurt Salmon for Management consulting last year, but cancelled the final round because they didn't seem to have their shit together. Personally I'm going to a M7 Business school and going to switch to consulting, as I had mostly worked on Project Management working.

Most people do tend to stay in operations or the related world though. Plenty of people get out of operations, many more choose to stay. There's no direct path out of operations, but do a good job and build the right relationships, and things open up (e.g. if you're rated highly in year end review, the bank becomes MUCH more open to have you move to mid and front office, Citi even had a special internal job search for people rated top 30%). It's not front office work, but it's not this huge dead end its made out to be. I will say, its easier to get out of ops if you 1) work in NYC 2) went to a name brand undergrad 3) can prove that your smart (high GMAT, GPA, and/or SAT). Mediocre students from mediocre schools working at satellite offices have a more difficult time transitioning to better roles..

May 10, 2012

thanks for the response, anyone with hedge fund specific ops experience?

"Life all comes down to a few moments. This is one of them."

May 10, 2012

Absolutely it matters! All you have to do is learn as much as you can on the job and figure out how to leverage that during interviews to talk about teamwork, attention to detail, capacity for learning quickly--all the stuff that finance groups want to hear about.

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

May 10, 2012

I would say it was pretty much expected...top hf won't give a rising junior an internship at the investment group unless your last name is Moelis.

That being said, spin your internship and i am sure you will get something good for your junior SA. The hf name is something banks will def take a harder look at.

May 10, 2012

lol you are a rising JUNIOR! Chill bra, plenty of people going into SA recruitment have no prior internship experience. At least you can say that you worked in a professional atmosphere and for a financial firm...much better than a lot of kids your age.

Enjoy your work, learn what you can, try to meet up with some of the FO people to learn about what they do, and as long as you can speak about your experience in a thoughtful, critical manner that shows you took something out about the big picture of an HF you will be fine for IB SA.

May 10, 2012

Thanks for the input guys.

May 10, 2012

If you have no other offers, you should definitely take take this job. Having a big name on a resume will get you recognition no matter what you actual role was. Plus, this is an opportunity to literally be in the same building as the front office guys. I could not think of an easier way to network.

May 10, 2012

It will help you get into a good bschool; they barely know the difference between FO and BO.

"It's very easy to have too many goals and be overwhelmed by them... The trick is to find the one thing you can focus on that represents every other single thing you want in life." -- @"Edmundo Braverman"

May 10, 2012

Would like to know more about how it gets you into a good bschool

May 10, 2012

I met one guy on the sell side who started in BO at a BB & then moved on to a FO trading role. I also know a guy at a prominent buy side long-only giant who started in the mail room & then moved on to a head of regional trading role.

To answer your question, yes, sh*t does happen, so take that offer if nothing better falls into your lap.

May 10, 2012
Red Barchetta:

I met one guy on the sell side who started in BO at a BB & then moved on to a FO trading role. I also know a guy at a prominent buy side long-only giant who started in the mail room & then moved on to a head of regional trading role.

To answer your question, yes, sh*t does happen, so take that offer if nothing better falls into your lap.

Dude, you know those mail room stories don't happen in this day and age. I too know someone who work in the a mail room type function at GS to become an MD in FICC. he's just retired.

May 10, 2012

@Oreos

I know man. This was in the late 1990's when this happened. Just making a point on someone's prayer coming true.

May 10, 2012

started from the bottom now we here

May 10, 2012

I dont think this path has a high success rate.

May 10, 2012
Comment

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

May 10, 2012