Back Office Position in a Hedge Fund
Such as risk control analyst or strategic planning analyst?What are these kinds of positions career path in a hedge fund?
Such as risk control analyst or strategic planning analyst?What are these kinds of positions career path in a hedge fund?
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can probably make it to MD level head of operations or head of risk or something to that effect if you are really good.
Yes, you can become a PM or trader at a HF via HF ops. I've seen it happen many many times, so you won't be limited to head of operations or COO role, though the former two are commendable. Take anything you can get.
can you please offer up an example? I just do not see why a HF would hire an ops guy to a trader role, when they can easily contact a headhunter and get a lineup of traders with experience in whatever niche that they have a need for.
From what I understand trader roles at HFs are very stats and math oriented and require prior trading experience as HFs do not want to train trading skills to those without trading experience.
Yes, though many firms want to hire experienced / successful P/L impact Traders, there are a few firms willing to train the right mid office talent to start in entry level trading position if they are an excellent Analyst (for instance) who fit well in the culture. This is one example - it's accurate as we have had such a position. Money is another reason a firm could hire from within their firm and train someone with the right pre trade skills - some experienced traders have cumbersome NDAs and/or retention bonus money in the millions where they need to be made whole.
Some of the smartest people I've talked to at Hedge Funds were risk managers/risk analysts.
How that translates to the trading side of things.. I'm honestly not 100% sure.. but I have a feeling Macro arb can answer that question for you.
not saying that risk folks aren't smart, usually they are very bright people. Just saying that their skillset has very little that is transferrable to a PM or trader role.
Israel Englander the manager of Millennium Partners, a $15bn multi-strat hedge fund, primarily does risk management. It's just a data point but an example nonetheless.
Israel Englander the manager of Millennium Partners, a $15bn multi-strat hedge fund, primarily does risk management. It's just a data point but an example nonetheless.
Middle/Back office hedge fund exit ops? (Originally Posted: 05/29/2014)
I know the obvious cons of such a position, but I received an ops offer from a top tier fund, not the best payout but will suffice for a few years.....
does anyone have any experience with this area of finance? Im really not looking to hear the negatives I know them very well, I am looking down the road for potential
Edit: My comments below are for ops in general, I missed where you said hedge fund ops
Depends on the group you start with. Operations and middle office is a huge world, and you can have a wide assortment of responsibilities. Personally, I've seen a lot of people go into prime brokerage and credit risk reporting. I saw one do front office IB (he was only in ops for 6 months and went to Princeton...so he was a bit of an exception I think), I got an interview for a S&T job out of the blue through a connection but failed it, a lot of people stay in and move up the ranks or transfer to non-front office positions (e.g. compliance, finance), one went to front office TSS, one went to become a CRM in the IB, based on linkedin it looks like one of my old coworkesr got into M&A at Citi after a bunch of lateral moves, etc. I also got an interview at Kurt Salmon for Management consulting last year, but cancelled the final round because they didn't seem to have their shit together. Personally I'm going to a M7 Business school and going to switch to consulting, as I had mostly worked on Project Management working.
Most people do tend to stay in operations or the related world though. Plenty of people get out of operations, many more choose to stay. There's no direct path out of operations, but do a good job and build the right relationships, and things open up (e.g. if you're rated highly in year end review, the bank becomes MUCH more open to have you move to mid and front office, Citi even had a special internal job search for people rated top 30%). It's not front office work, but it's not this huge dead end its made out to be. I will say, its easier to get out of ops if you 1) work in NYC 2) went to a name brand undergrad 3) can prove that your smart (high GMAT, GPA, and/or SAT). Mediocre students from mediocre schools working at satellite offices have a more difficult time transitioning to better roles..
thanks for the response, anyone with hedge fund specific ops experience?
Back Office at a Hedge Fund (Originally Posted: 06/15/2011)
I am a rising junior at a non target, and for the last month I have been interning with a really well known hedge fund.
I was really excited when I heard that I was offered a position because I know that it is a really name brand to have on my resume. However, a month into it and I am realizing that I did not get placed into a relevant group. Some kids are interning in operations, compliance, etc. I am working pretty much as an accounts payable clerk. (ie I process a lot of checks).
I am pretty bummed since I work harder than pretty much any of the other interns. I am usually the last intern to leave because my group gives me a shit ton of work and quite a bit of responsibility. It is just not the responsibility or work that will be relevant going into recruiting next year.
Other than my work, the position is not bad. The people are great and I have met with pretty much everyone in the firm (learning a lot about HF structure and practice).
Am I screwed? Does the type of back office work matter? Will the big name on my resume help me land interviews?
Absolutely it matters! All you have to do is learn as much as you can on the job and figure out how to leverage that during interviews to talk about teamwork, attention to detail, capacity for learning quickly--all the stuff that finance groups want to hear about.
I would say it was pretty much expected...top hf won't give a rising junior an internship at the investment group unless your last name is Moelis.
That being said, spin your internship and i am sure you will get something good for your junior SA. The hf name is something banks will def take a harder look at.
lol you are a rising JUNIOR! Chill bra, plenty of people going into SA recruitment have no prior internship experience. At least you can say that you worked in a professional atmosphere and for a financial firm...much better than a lot of kids your age.
Enjoy your work, learn what you can, try to meet up with some of the FO people to learn about what they do, and as long as you can speak about your experience in a thoughtful, critical manner that shows you took something out about the big picture of an HF you will be fine for IB SA.
Thanks for the input guys.
back office at big hedge fund (Originally Posted: 09/03/2013)
I have been a long time reader of WSO but this is my first time posting. I am a 2013 grad from a top small college where I majored in Econ, have a 3.3, and was a member of 2 varsity sports teams. I am thinking about taking a job at a very large and high performing hedge fund in the back office. The goal would be to parlay this experience into a better job in the future, at the same firm or elsewhere. I was thinking something along the lines of back office-> operations -> trading.
I haven't had much luck anywhere else and I am anxious to get some work experience. I feel like despite being back office, the brand name firm will get me some recognition at other places down the road, or if I do well enough I can move elsewhere within the firm. The people I interviewed with say that moving around to other divisions in the firm definitely happens. Just wanted to know if anyone out there has made moves like this or heard of people making moves like this and if this is a good opportunity or I am just hoping it is.
If you have no other offers, you should definitely take take this job. Having a big name on a resume will get you recognition no matter what you actual role was. Plus, this is an opportunity to literally be in the same building as the front office guys. I could not think of an easier way to network.
It will help you get into a good bschool; they barely know the difference between FO and BO.
Would like to know more about how it gets you into a good bschool
I met one guy on the sell side who started in BO at a BB & then moved on to a FO trading role. I also know a guy at a prominent buy side long-only giant who started in the mail room & then moved on to a head of regional trading role.
To answer your question, yes, sh*t does happen, so take that offer if nothing better falls into your lap.
Dude, you know those mail room stories don't happen in this day and age. I too know someone who work in the a mail room type function at GS to become an MD in FICC. he's just retired.
@Oreos
I know man. This was in the late 1990's when this happened. Just making a point on someone's prayer coming true.
started from the bottom now we here
I dont think this path has a high success rate.
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