Battle of the MM's
Rank these banks please:
BNP Paribas
RBS
RBC
HLHZ
Jefferies
Piper Jaffray
Harris Williams
Rank these banks please:
BNP Paribas
RBS
RBC
HLHZ
Jefferies
Piper Jaffray
Harris Williams
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epic
RBS and RBC are not MM. Nor is BNP.
Piper Jaffray is guaranteed to be ranked the lowest.
"RBS and RBC are not MM. Nor is BNP."
Fine but they are crappy international banks and are MM in America. Just rank please.
^ Troll post.
2 and 3: HLHZ and Jefferies I don't know about HLHZ but Jefferies is there mostly because of Lorello's healthcare IBD.
4 and 5: RBC and BNP Paribas Both international banks with a smaller presence here in the United States
RBS: Got absolutely destroyed recently. No bonuses, low salaries, no exit opps, and probably going to die soon
Piper Jaffray: No explanation needed.
This list is probably the best one you'll get without a bunch of sarcasm and jokes rolled in.
Please
RBS' base salaries at least for juniors are way above their BB counterparts in London :) Of course there is still a big debate on their bonuses
PIPER JAFFRIES > Goldman. No explanation needed.
ranking between these is stupid. if you have offers at all, you'd be much better served just going with cultural fit, with the exception of rbs, because it is dying, and piper jaffray, because it is piper jaffray
haha hilarious
JEF / Harris / HLHZ are equivalent and then its everyone else.
IMHO
1) HLHZ 2) Jefferies 3) Harris Williams 4) BNP 5) The rest.
Any thoughts as to where Lazard MM would fit in? I know it's relatively new (~2 years old?), but I'm curious about the MM group within Lazard specifically.
No it is not. Prior it was Goldsmith Agio Helms, which has been around for a long time. You may want to check your information before saying things that are not true. GA was purchased by Lazzard and changed their name to Lazzard MM
You may want to check your spelling. It's Lazard.
And there are several firms that you did not even include. William Blair, RW Baird, Edgeview Partners, Oppenheimer, etc.
I'm aware it was GAH before, I'm curious what has changed since the acquisition, and if it would be placed with the others that are mentioned in this thread.
IMO, Tier 1: HLHZ (likely the top, but depends on if you're in corpfin, fas or restructuring) Harris Williams - Top MM M&A Shop. Great relationship with sponsors. Apparently great placement into MM PE. Jefferies - Decent dealflow, seem to be well positioned with Lorello hire and such
Maybe add RBC, I've heard pretty good things about them but know little about their dealflow.
I might put Piper over BNP and RBS, but i generally think it gets a little too bad of a rap on this forum.
HLHZ restructuring is nothing like the rest of their business. They are MM everywhere else, but in restructuring they play with the big boys, Lazard, Rothschild, Miller Buckfire, Moelis, etc.
Jefferies is not truly middle market in Healthcare or Restructuring either.
With Lorello's hiring and generally avoiding exposure to the mortgage crisis, Jefferies has been hiring left and right and is offering very nice comp packages to laterals. I think they are at the top of this list and have the most near-term upside - you don't give Lorello that type of comp package unless you really have some big aspirations.
HLHZ has good restructuring but not much else. I'd put William Blair and Harris Williams ahead of them.
^ Obviously works at Jefferies. It's still a low tier bank.
Thought dorks like you had been weeded out for the most part on here, but i guess a few are still around. I don't work at Jefferies, and I form opinions on banks due to what's actually going on in the industry rather than old Leveraged Sellout posts. Go read the Vault guide again kiddo.
Harris Williams, HLHZ, and Jefferies are a cut above the others listed. BNP, RBC, and RBS aren't really the same breed - they're more like wannabe BB's; large financial institutions that want to play in the IB big leagues, but struggle. HW, HLHZ and JEF are actually focused on the middle market, and do it well.
HW (and other MM banks like it that execute with a lot of MM PE deals - Edgeview Partners, Lazard MM, McColl Partners, etc) have excellent placement into PE because their MDs have personal relationships with Partners at many PE shops (both middle market and larger), and really go to bat for their analysts. I know analysts from the above listed "boutique"/MM banks that have landed jobs at places like GTCR, Tom H Lee, Carlyle, Polaris Ventures and more.
For MM, I'd say HW, Jefferies, then HLHZ.
HW is a rapidly growing firm and I've heard nothing but great things about the company. According to their website they're looking to increase their international platform, they just opened a London office to be led by the previous co-head of european technology investment banking at Deutsche Bank. I've also heard the people are very intelligent yet modest and down-to-earth; a combination hard to come across in investment banking firms these days if you ask me.
Jefferies is a strong MM bank, haven't heard anything really good or bad about them lately.
HLHZ greatly differs across groups, so it depends which group you're in. Restructuring is one of the best in the world, but I heard they work ungodly hours. Same slave labor goes for their corp fin group (at least in Chi).
In my opinion, culture is the most important determinant when considering full-time employment. All of these companies are great, but have vastly different cultures. Just depends which one fits the individual best.
Do you work for HW?
You can't go wrong with HLHZ, Jefferies, HW, or RBC
RBC guys are really nice based on my experience, they are trying to expand their MM reach.
HW have some sharp guys, also really nice
I didn't have a good exp at HLHZ but their rest is the best and I have a couple good friends in there
Jefferies I don't know too much about but is a very solid MM.
where does wfc or wachovia rank here
WF, like other large banks, does both large corporates and MM as an entirety (similar to banks like UBS, CS, RBS, etc.) so I don't think it was included here for that reason. Jefferies for Healthcare is not entirely MM either, nor is HLHZ for restructuring.
For my ranking, I think Harris Williams is underrated. Don't they place %-wise better than the rest of the shops? Maybe you won't get a megafund but it seems smaller PE shops are almost guaranteed. Also I thought PNC owns Harris.
Although I have never personally interacted with them, I have heard only great things about HW in the MM space. HLHZ does have some strong practices, but many of these are known for being sweatshops. The foreign banks are also-rans.
Foreign banks tend to be more conservative. I wouldn't necessarily say this is that big of a negative since your job is more secure, but the bonus payouts may be smaller.
Otherwise I mean besides Piper Jaffray, its all relatively the same.
two other names to consider.
HW is not that good, I would take the larger banks like BNP and Nomura over it. I don't think anyone will ever go to RBS now since its a dead shop that pays nothing.
HLHZ, Harris Williams, Jefferies, William Blair, Robert W. Baird -- these are all great shops and you won't go wrong with any of them. The role of an analyst is very similar at each shop. Your outplacement at any of these places will be determined more by your personal ability than by the name of your bank.
What does someone want: a MM firm or a firm that is pretty lean but gets BB deal traction? It's like choosing William Blair and Harris Williams vs. Nomura, BNP, RBC...
You can't really compare them.
Nope I don't work for HW, I mean it's a good shop that doesn't get much notice on WSO but it's still a MM afterall and I wouldn't take it over the larger banks.
3) HLHZ 3) Jefferies 3) Harris Williams
Accenture all the way!!!!
Harris Williams has 100% placement record. That's sums it up :)
P.S.: what's up with people putting their future work place in signature? Is it a new d-bag trend or something?
What are the names of PE funds their analysts typically go to? could you provide some data points? thanks
Literally any MM PE. I am not sure about elite fund (Apollo, KKR, TPG, etc.). MDs of Harris Williams go to bat for their analysts. They also help with MBA apps, letters of rec., etc.
ty
no elite funds, smaller funds though
Back when I was an analyst, I focused on PE job search solely on middle-market shops. Harris Williams came up all over the place at a number of the solid, blue-chip MM PE shops. Here are some names that I remember:
The Riverside Company Olympus Partners CIVC Partners ABRY Partners Sun Capital Partners Weston Presidio
wow, rbs blows, i can't believe that. i wouldn't work more than 40 hours in that case
throw macquarie into the mix!!!
networking and luck, same as all jobs. and pjc sucks btw, worst of all the 4 u mentioned. and accenture is an abominablesnowmannation, y u on here if ur at a shitthole firm like accenture.
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is a middle market investment bank?
Companies that provide corporate finance activities such as advisory, mergers and acquisitions, underwriting, and financial restructuring services to clients with revenue of more than $25 million but less than $1 billion.
^Is this a good explanation?^
Middle Market bank means different things to different people. I think your definition is as accurate as anyone else's. Some people even split the middle market into "lower middle market" and "upper middle market," but at the end of the day it is the same thing. Note that, in general, middle market banks aren't different from those who work on large cap deals strictly in terms of deal size. MM banks typically give their analysts a very different type of experience. Deal teams are generally 4 to 5 individuals in size, the analyst spends far less time modeling and gains far more interaction with more senior bankers and clients.
Also, note that MM banks tend to be more specialized. Some banks provide solely M&A services, some focus on only a few select industries. They almost never have a large balance sheet that they can utilize to facilitate transactions.
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