DB CRE or Lehman Global Real Estate

when was the final for DB?

Tuesday

Lehman is gold.

Why do you ask when? Did I probably not get in then? Because Lehman called me 2 days after. Bummer.. I thought I did well with DB too.

I had no reasoning I was just curious.

Lehman IS gold. I wouldn't worry about it.

What would the Lehman job be doing?

CRE CDO is a hot product right now, and DB in New York certainly won't look bad on a resume, particularly with that type of experience

For just a summer? I'd take Lehman RE in Korea. Hands down.

they didn't tell me exactly what I'd be doing in Lehman Korea, but they just told me it's a lot of work on the debt side, a little equity, and NPLs. Thanks for the comments.

P.S tirekicker, why Korea hands down?

I have no idea what Korea is like, but I guess one concern you might have is being seen as having connections. From what I understand 50% of Asia interns are through family connections. I am going to assume you are Asian here, and if that's true that may be an issue.

No one will deny your credentials in DB NY working with CRE CDOs. But honestly, I think both are good. TireKicker seems to know a lot and I would trust his/her judgement more than mine though. Congrats anyways on Lehman. Either one you go with, I'm sure you'll be able to leverage that into something better next summer.

Did DB recruit at your school? I'd kill to get a shot at DB's CDO desk. I applied online weeks ago and never heard anything.

Yes, DB comes to campus, as well as the full roster of boutiques and BBs. I kinda feel bad, actually, asking for all this advice when I haven't even heard back yet from DB. But thanks for all the responses.

I am not positive, but I think mostly likely I would want to spend the few years after graduation in the states. Considering that I have two summer internships before I go full-time, do you think it would be difficult for me to get a summer analyst position with a BB RE group in NY even if I do my summer in Korea? Obviously ultimately I am going to do what is best for my career, but if it makes only a small difference it would be a great opportunity for me to visit the motherland.

I am an associate at a BB in NYC in REIB. From my own personal experience, I would say go with Lehman Korea over DB. Both are great opportunities and will lead to another great summer opportunity next year. Plus I was in the same situation as you where I was on track to graduate late so essentially I was a "junior" when I did my first summer internship in Singapore and my second internship at a BB NY my penultimate year. Nobody ever commented on why I went to Singapore, but they sure loved the fact that I had ML on my resume and that it wasn't private wealth management.

When I see resumes, I honestly don't care that it says Lehman Korea or Lehman NY as far as the level of work, and I especially don't care if its in actuality your sophomore summer. Anything other than PWM your sophomore year, I'm gonna be impressed (No knock on PWM, but its notorious on the street to be for sophomores to get their introduction to banking). The interns at Singapore were legit- sure, maybe some of them had connections, but none of them were sons/daughters of VPs, MD's etc. Who doesn't know somebody in the business? Find me a kid who doesn't know anyone through networking in this business and I am going to be seriously worried about working with him/her. You're supposed to network and know people. It's a client-driven business, for crying out loud.

DB is solid when it comes to RE, and if somebody comes to me for a summer analyst position with CDO experience on his belt, it's pretty damn impressive. Lehman Brothers in XYZ country, similarly impressive. So why not say hi to "halmuni" and "halaboji" and see the world a little? You have plenty of time in your life to live/love/hate NYC.

Ultimately, your decision. If you can't find reasons to choose either/or, maybe you can try looking for reasons not to work at either bank.

Enjoy yourself. Life only gets harder.

Good luck with DB's CDO group. I graduated from HYP last year and tried to get into the group. I would take it if I had the chance. I'm now with a BB CMBS.

In all honesty, it doesn't really matter which one you take. Each one will be unique and worthwhile, and you'll definitely have an edge over a lot of kids next summer.

what are the exit opps for CMBS? just because it's "Hot right now" is a pretty shortsighted reason to pigeonhole youreslf into such an obscure product...REIB is much more flexible than CDOs....ur building a career here, not jumping on the hottest bandwagon and retiring in 2 years

You gotta think about your exit ops..Prospie is absolutely right. Don't be pulled in by the latest trends. If you want to think long-term, go with Lehman. You might not like working in the cap. markets this summer and may want to try something else (ex. REIB). Pigeonhole yourself in CDOs and you may find it hard to get into REPEs; not impossible, but difficult.

I'm sure Lehman will give you more opportunities even if is the Asia office. Remember, just like prospie said, this is a career move. You can still get into CMBS and CDOs next summer if you truly think that's your calling. But do not underestimate Asia experience.

From my understanding, Lehman Global Real Estate group (GREG) is an integrated group. It includes three major groups, RE IB, Principal Investment (PI) and Private Equity (PE). RE PE is under their investment management division and PI (balance investment) is under investment banking division. RE IB is in charge of M&A while PE and PI involve in asset level transactions, both equity and debt sides, including mezz loan, B note, prefer equity and property acquisition. PE has equity fund as well as mezz fund. (Of course, here comes the conflict of interest thing between PE and PI since they are looking at same assets with different funding source) In your case, I believe they indicate the global real estate program as the PI team. I suppose you will involve in the similar transactions (mezz loan, NPL, and some equity deals) as PE position. I personally don’t work at Lehman GREG. These are the information I gathered when I interviewed with them couple months ago.

I agree with sakurascent. You won’t go wrong with either one. Both of the options will add values on your resume, and open the RE IB door for you no matter your goal is working in Asia or New York. Good thing about summer intern is that you have two months to explore the corporate culture, the city, and local market, and it’s only two months if you hate the job. In terms of exit opportunity, neither of them will limit your opportunity to land on BB REIB position in the future. CMBS, CRE CDO, Mezz loan, equity acquisition all involve the same analysis technique and underwriting criteria. To me, they are same shit different pile and the skill set you learn is applicable.

CMBS is hot right now in that it is a mature product that is catching on in other markets (London, continental Europe a step behind).

Speaking with an MD the other day from a BB working with REITs, his encouragement was entirely for pursuing CMBS/CRE CDO.

All the commentary above sounds very insightful - looks like you've been getting some solid advice. Let us know what direction you go with.

I would encourage Lehman. I'm currently at a BB/IBD in NY, Korean myself... I strongly believe transactions in Asia are generating significant overall market presence and to the extent you want to play in that field, a market like Korea with a strong brand like Lehman would be an awesome start to a career.

CDOs/CMBS,etc. are interesting but like the wise people say above, it may end up being a pigeon trap... and that opening can close quicker than you think.

Thanks for the support. I haven't signed yet, but I'm pretty sure I'm gonna sign with Lehman.

Did you get to interview with Toby Cobb? I've heard very positive things about his leadership of DB CRE. So DB's CRE CDO rolls under the CRE group? Some companies it is folded under the CDO group (i.e. Citi, ML, etc).

Nope, didn't get him. Was interviewed by alumni in all rounds. But yeah, CRE CDOs falls under their CRE group.