Delaying graduation: good/bad idea?
Who else is thinking about doing this? A month ago, I would have NEVER even thought about this, but now Im getting 'desperate' (I guess you could call it that).
If I dont get an offer by December, I'm gonna take my GMAT and either try to get into a 1 year M.Sc program to start next fall or delay graduation by a year. Hopefully 2009 fall FT recruitment will look a lot better than this.
Pros:
-It will give me another (and more likely) shot at trying to get an SA offer; learned from my mistakes from last year
-If I just delay graduation...it will be a pretty lax year; gives me time to 'smell the flowers'
-More time to network
-Wont be stuck in some BO job
Cons:
-2009 FT recruitment may be even worse than this year
-I'll lose a year's salary (even if its a $35K BO job) while incurring more costs
-I'll feel like Im a year behind; bad for motivation
-And (the most obvious one) my current debt levels :P
Not sure what to do anymore :(
i think most people will tell you this is a bad idea. personally though, i dont think it is. if you really want to get into finance and can't right now, you'll have a better chance next year....man, these job markets suck so much
I might not have the best advice but I remember reading an article in the FT or WSJ about this. it said that delaying graduation during a downturn increases your chances of getting hired the next year (assuming things get better).
however, i think this is only the best option vs. doing nothing.
Let me pose a question. Do you feel that you can get an adequate score on your GMAT with minimal preparation? How much time will you have devoted to the exam before sitting for it?
My last final is on December 8th. So hopefully about 1 full month before Winter semester starts, then about another month of "partial" study. Most deadlines for MSc programs are about Feb/March so I think I have a good chunk of time.
ps- I have a friend who works in a "BO" role at a top BB, works 9-5, compensated 140k + bonus/overtime, graduate 07
How come your title says "I work in a BO" but the post says "I have a friend..."
LOL...now only if I could get a 9-5 job that payed 140k total comp. Honestly though, I'd take a FO job at a 30% discount over that, but thats just me.
I've actually delayed my graduation by a year or so. I'm going for a double major + Master. And if the economy recovers I can always drop the second major and graduate "early".
Plus it is much more fun to be in school than worrying about losing/finding a job.
What 2nd year BO analyst makes 140K?
I smell bullshit.
i also smell bullshit...if only because he says that his friend got 140k after bonus+overtime, but you don't get overtime if you're not doing more than 9-5...although people in ops can comment what they think.
I think he/his friend actually works in ops but may be stretching the truth a little bit.
I don't think the 140k is actually cash comp, but total comp.
Sure, if you include 401k match, health benefits, ect. ect... you might hit 140k
Well if you include your 401K, healthcare, dental, optometry, holidays, accrued sick days, free/subsidized gym membership, education reimbursement, adoption assistance, company life insurance, company training, and subsidized cafeteria food then yeah I guess you can make 140K your second year.
I really don't think you should delay graduation, period. Even if finance doesn't work out, do something else for a year that looks good on a resume. Go abroad, live in a foreign country, learn a language, go backpacking through Australia, whatever! It will definitley beat spending a needless year in school and will make you a more interesting person with some life experience when you apply the following year. Having something to talk about outside of finance might just make you stand out in an invterview. It may seem like you are in a really bad place now, but as one door closes, another one may open. Staying one more year in school would add nothing new to your life. So take a chance and explore something different. Doing a graduate degree is certainly an option, but just sticking around in undergrad for another year makes absolutley no sense.
Mez, are you looking at Msc from the United States or abroad? Are deadlines for top programs abroad (LSE, HEC, CEMS) that late? I know LSE opened up their applications around something like September. I can't imagine it would run until March...and if so, I can't imagine there would be many open slots. What is your take on this?
I'm applying to programs mainly here in Canada.
As for the extra year's cost, thats the least of my worries as education is relatively cheap here.
Who is paying for this extra year? Loans? Your parents? Uni costs a lot of money and "delaying graduation" may not go down very well as a reason.
A huge percentage of IB hopefuls fail during FT recruitment -- even during "good" years. I'd say strive for something more, like the masters program you mentioned; just don't stay for another meaningless year. Good luck!
a few of my younger friends pursued the MS in Commerce at UVA. supposed to be a good program and could be a good way to hide in school for a yr if you weren't a business undergrad major
http://www.commerce.virginia.edu/grad/mscommerce/
I wouldn't suggest the program if you're looking to "hide" in school until the job market improves. However, if you're seriously interested in earning a one-year master's degree in business (and you're currently a liberal arts, science or engineering major) with pre-experience, then I'd definitely look into it.
For the financial services track, it's getting more competitive, and this year's applicants are finding it necessary to score at least a 70% on the GMAT quant section, as well as have a solid application. The marketing & management track is less strict.
Website: www.commerce.virginia.edu/grad/mscommerce Email: [email protected]
MS program is a good bet. Without any experience, you would be applying for the same analyst jobs that seniors are. Plus, it won't cost you much more than another senior year, and will enhance yoyur resume.
am I missing something? Everyone is talking about a GMAT. is that a required test to get into the industry or do get into a masters program because I do not believe anybody else I know has taken a GMAT test and several are working at BB's IB
The GMAT is like the b-school version of the SAT, it is not required for a job or for the industry. For Masters (non-MBA) programs you could be required to take either the GMAT or GRE
I am also interested in this. I am an Engineering + Business dual degree (will graduate this December; 4.5 years in total) in a target school and I couldn't land an SA at a top firm this semester. I am thinking of adding another year by submatriculating into MS in Engineering. I've learned from my mistakes and I hope to get a better offer next year (I'm more into consulting, though IBD or prop trading is also fine). Do you think this is a good idea? Thanks!
There is a good writeup of this on M&I. The only time you want to delay graduation is when you have legit IB experience, good grades and on campus recruiting. Personally, I know a couple of people who have delayed and gotten top top shops in IB
Delay Graduation? (Originally Posted: 10/05/2016)
I'm currently a senior set to graduate from a Chicago non-target in June. I didn't get a SA position this past summer, but my resume isn't completely sparse. Should I strictly try for FT positions, or delay graduation til December '17 (take a minor) and try for a prestigious SA position? I haven't really had any good input from mentors about this yet.
I think that your time would be better spent graduating on time and trying to start at a boutique. After six months to a year, try then to lateral to a larger bank. I would, of course, first determine why SA recruiting did not work out for you.
I came in as an older transfer student as a junior (23 at the start of junior year) and wasn't able to evaluate career paths, take finance classes, or any of that jazz so I was way behind the curve and had to struggle to catch up. Managed to land a research position at a small boutique firm and build up my resume from there, but at that time it was too late. Even despite a terrible resume at the time, I still managed to get a call from GS, so I'm not completely hopeless.
I filled out a ton of FT apps at various sized firms, but not really counting on hearing anything back.
I would delay.
Don't delay. That will dominate the interview and they will view you as inferior. Just graduate and get a job at a boutique.
I would say delay. FT recruiting is pretty much wrapped up with only a few bank left while SA slots are being filled right now. I was in your shoes, as I switched career paths from pre-med to finance of my 3rd year. Although I wasn't able to land a prestigious SA gig as I was late in the game for it, I got a boutique internship over the summer and was able to leverage that to a respectable MM firm.
Don't delay. It sounds like you've spent enough time in school and messing around. If you were to delay and start FT in 2018, you would be 26 years old only a couple months into your first full-time job. Just get your life started and come to terms with the fact that you're going to have to find another route into IB (maybe as a post-MBA Associate) if it is truly what you want to do.
Push back graduation date (Originally Posted: 07/08/2017)
I'm in the graduating class of 2018 at a non-target, is it worth it to push back my graduation date to 2019? Did not get an SA position this summer.
SA recruiting has barely even began LMAO
I meant this past summer (2017)
Honestly I wouldn't. Just because you delay graduation by a year doesn't mean you're going to get a spot. What happens if you don't get a SA offer? That would just be a waste of a year then. (Unless you have another reason to delay it although in your post I haven't seen any)
If you really want to get into IB why don't you build up work experience go to a top MBA program and then join as an associate?
Unsuccessful recruiting season so far...Should I delay graduation? (Originally Posted: 10/18/2011)
Fellas, long time reader, first time poster. The FT recruiting season has not been kind to me thus far (still waiting on several MMs, but most BBs are obviously full). Over the summer, I worked at a solid debt shop but was unable to convert that to a fulltime offer, being told that although my work was top-notch, I didn't make enough of an effort to network with desks not in my vicinity. I learned my lesson and tried to go to as many info sessions on campus as possible and talk to as many people as possible. Anyway, I have applied to many places but have not been able to convert interviews into offers. Because of this, I am thinking about taking off the spring semester and applying for SA positions again, thus changing my graduation date to Dec 2012. Do firms ever take seniors graduating in Dec as SAs? Is this even a feasible option? My rationale is that my prior internship will hopefully make me a decent candidate for SA positions, and I'll be able to convert one of those into a FT, but I'm still trying to figure out the exact logistics. Any help or experiences you guys can share would be appreciated.
get any job. get an MBA do not put off graduation. 2012 might suck even more, plus its highly unlikely you''ll ever make up the lost earnings potential by starting to work a year later...
Delaying graduation can be useful. I took off a semester (senior year second semester) to work on a startup. I also had a tough time in the 2010 recruiting season, so that was a big factor in my decision to delay graduation. I did much better this year. Landed a BB offer, so I think I made the right move for me.
Same sort of position for me. Any ideas on if b schools will care at all if you delay graduation? Or should that be a non-issue?
Same...
Amazing when you see hours of networking/studying for techincals go to waste.
depends if you can pretend to be a senior graduating early or a super senior graduating late
If you plan on delaying graduation, first ask yourself if next year is really going to be any different. The economy has been terrible for years and we have no reason to believe 2012 is going to be any different. Your GPA will change only marginally at that point. At best you'll have one more summer of experience -- if you land a relevant internship. On the other hand, the price tag is often quite large, both in terms of opportunity cost and actual cost. I think you're better off pursuing another position and working on lateraling or breaking in post-MBA.
Well, I have been interviewing at a bunch of MMs, boutiques, and lower level eco consulting firms but I would rather go through SA recruiting again. I know I would get a top 3 BB for sure. From there my plan would be to hopefully get a return offer or do MBB or tier 2 consulting. Honestly, I just want to go to a top b school, so if delaying graduation would help me for that that's what I would do. But, I wouldn't want to delay graduation if b schools would see that as a major weakness. I'm also a transfer (changeable GPA although 3.5+ already) so maybe that changes things a bit, I dunno. (should probably ask on b school forum, sorry for hijacking too)
do u have any more specific feedback from these interviews? its probably best to keep grinding this recruitment season...i echo the posts above that delaying graduation is probably not that great of an idea
I think it's a combination of weak GPA in a common major (3.5 in Econ) and the fact that I worked in DCM over the summer as opposed to a coverage group or M&A. I've also been grilled a few times on why my ECs haven't been more finance related. Also the lack of a FT offer from the summer has hurt as well. Although I think I explained it well, I can tell that interviewers looked down on it. That's why I think that I'm better suited for going into the SA pool again, but like some have mentioned earlier, the economy isn't going to get better anytime soon. Maybe lateral / post-mba is the best path
If you end up delaying graduation make sure you know why you failed this time around. I had been promised a job at the firm I interned at only to have layoffs at the firm cancel that possibility. I found this out late in the season and had missed applying to other firms because I was planning on returning to the internship firm. I didn't want to take a MM or worse offer because of this, so a delay fit my situation. If you have just not been doing well in interviews, delaying may be a poor idea because why would next year be different.
Mostly that my summer experience isn't great when compared to others (IB, no name). Would be fine for junior recruiting though. There are still a bunch of people that did summers at solid MMs and lower BBs still in my interviewing pool. None of the BBs and most MMs haven't been recruiting so there's still a lot of solid candidates without offers.
My thoughts on delaying graduation would be so that I could apply for summer analyst postions this summer. From what I heard summer analyst recruiting is not affected the same way that FT recruiting is, and many of contacts simply said that there was no room due to interns accepting their offers. I have pretty good relationships with the alumni that I've reached out, so while it is possible that maybe they don't like me, it doesn't really seem that way and that in reality it really was out of their control.
You should do a co-op to delay graduation if you are intent on going that route... they aren't that difficult to secure, and pay phenomenally well... Additionally, you get the experience and treatement of a full time employee. I did this and was able to get an FT offer while graduating off cycle... just a thought...
What is a co-op? I'm in a similar situation and may look into doing this.
Getting an SA stint at a BB should never be considered "for sure". Still takes a lot of work and luck.
Just be careful because as in my school, the OCR website is very specific and you cannot change your graduation date. Also, since you used the OCR for FT recruiting, it won't be easy to convince the school administration as to why now you are delaying graduation and using OCR for an SA position.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Is it time to start looking at MO/BO positions (I'm thinking Corporate Treasury, and maybe Compliance)? Are transitions to FO possible?
Post your resume here
That's the only way we'll be able to render an accurate decision
The vast majority of my activities are school-specific...that's why I haven't already posted it
I'm graduating this semester and my job search is not looking that great either. I've been working full-time at a decent non-finance job while going to school. How is it perceived if I stay at this job until I find something else versus getting anything remotely finance-related that may possibly peg me? I always get comments on it in interviews or while networking but it's not finance.
Post it here or in the resume forum
Hiring is still happening, even at BB's, but it's on an ad hoc basis
Master in Management Studies at Duke, MSc Finance at LSE, etc etc etc ask Anthony.
response from facebook (http://www.facebook.com/WallStreetOasis)
re: should I delay graduation? "Justin Bobo: Nope. Who's to say the job market will improve?"
Worth delaying graduation? (Originally Posted: 04/13/2016)
I was planning on graduating this summer with an honors in the major. Today, my thesis director told me he doesn't want me defending until the fall semester.
In two weeks, I'll have completed the requirements for a dual degree in economics and political science with minors in business and mathematics. I only needed the summer semester for the honors in the major designation, hence why I didn't submit for graduation this semester. But now I'll have to wait until December to graduate if I want to keep the honors in the major.
Putting things into context: I have no previous finance experience. I want to break into IB. I'm planning on doing an MSF program (hopefully Vandy). I can finish my honors in the major online via communicating with the professor over email. I have a couple of options and want some advice.
What would you guys recommend?
1) Maintain student status to complete the honors in the major. Do a fall internship at boutique and have a shot at an offer when I graduate. Start working at boutique that following spring semester. Don't need MSF.
2) Maintain student status to complete the honors in the major. Do a fall internship at boutique. Don't get an offer. Do a spring internship. Then move to Nashville in the summer to begin the MSF program.
3) Maintain student status to complete the honors in the major, can't land an internship, so I work at some job that doesn't require a bachelor's degree. Move to Nashville in the summer.
4) Forgo the honors in the major, get a job in the fall and spring that requires a bachelor's degree. Then move to Nashville in the summer.
How bad do you want honors? I graduated with two BS degrees and only completed honors in one of them BC fuck alla that
Seems like #1 is the ideally the way to go
I do not care about the honors in the major that much. It is honestly an extension of the project I did for my "political science research intensive bachelor's certificate" (I am looking at how certain political institutions affects FDI inflow).
I am only doing it for the resume. If it will help me get into a good MSF program, then it is worth it. If it will help me get an interview at an IB, even better. If it has no value, then I don't want to waste my time with it.
My buddy, who just landed a job with Duestche bank, told me that being a student, regardless of only taking one course, will grant me the opportunity to get an off cycle internship in both the fall and spring. Can anyone confirm this for me?
Should I delay my graduation? (Originally Posted: 11/08/2009)
I'm a senior looking to get into strategy consulting. Even if I don't get in straight out of undergrad I want to position myself for a top ten b-school.
here are my choices for next year
Plan 1: Work in either of these positions (what I most likely have so far) BoFa-ML technology HSBC infrastructure finance
Plan 2: Stay an extra semester, take the Spring off I've been talking to a few ib boutiques about a Spring gig through some contacts. looks somewhat promising Referred by a partner at Booz Allen for a summer intern position (referrals are everything here, and my initial phone screen went very well) Strong contacts at some top firms like Booz & co. and Mars Try again for summer positions, fall recruiting; more time for networking
I really want mbb. What would you do?
Not worth delaying IMO. You should take whatever job you have now and just move over if you want later.
I would delay. In the big picture of your career, a semester is absolutely nothing.
If you begin in a very weak role/area you do not want to be in, it will likely be extremely difficult to get where you want to be.
Would you postpone graduation if no FT job offer is secured? (Originally Posted: 10/20/2011)
Friend of a friend of a friend is a senior in target school with decent GPA. This friend is graduating next year but currently has no full time offer. This summer, he worked with Bulge Bracket, but the firm did not extend full time offer. This fall for FT, he got many interviews including final rounds in many places. However, he did not lend any full time offer.
He is thinking that maybe he should postpone his graduation and look for an internship. This way he can apply for job next year. Is it good idea to postpone and apply for FT next year? I think this strategy is risky as if he does not lend any full time internship. Even if he does lend an internship, what the companies will ask about did not he graduate. I am against it but want to know your opinions.
Advice appreciated. Thanks
I don't even know a friend of a friend of a friend.
why would he lend a full time offer? is he a really nice guy?
i'm amazed you can even graduate. judging by your writing, you're pretty fucking dumb.
LOL.
better have more than a "decent" GPA if you want a firm to sponsor you. try looking for a job in your home country?
why the hell do you care so much about "a friend of a friend of a friend"?
Question About Delaying Graduation (Originally Posted: 12/15/2016)
Long story short - I wasn't able to land an IBD SA role last year, so I decided to recruit again in what is technically my senior year. However, I adjusted my resume to reflect that I am a junior with the honest intention of spending an additional semester/year in university. I've accepted an SA position at an EB (think Greenhill, Centerview, Moelis). Two questions:
I worry that having 4 years on my transcript will be problematic and raise questions during the background check, even though I am planning on an extra semester as of now.
Secondly, would graduating this May be possible if I explained my situation to HR and demonstrated it made financial sense to do so?
I never explicitly lied about my situation, but nobody was ever given a reason to inquire. I am losing sleep over this after reading past threads. Personally, it never seemed unethical since I genuinely planned on doing a super-senior year after a late major change. I need peace of mind and any feedback would be greatly appreciated
Had a friend do it and it wasn't an issue. Took another semester of classes as a part time student in the fall and was fine
Currently a JUNIOR. Considering staying a fifth year to do fall recruiting twice. Thoughts? (Originally Posted: 06/08/2013)
Brief summary: Junior at a target school; Business Management/Econ Major; 3.6 GPA; four internships on resume - 3 AM and 1 summer IBD.
I'm considering stay a fifth year for these reasons: +Pick up a minor in accounting +Take 1-2 quarters off to study abroad / relax +Do fall recruitment twice +Figure out what I really want to do by taking up more internships over Fall/Winter/Spring
Cons: Discuss? Do employers look down upon super seniors?
Are you doing this because you havent done recruiting at all for ibd or because you tried but didnt manage to get anything good out of this summer?
From what I've heard/seen, super senior isn't looked down upon.
I would not do a 5th year. It looks bad on your resume. It looks like you could not finish with your class.
how would they know this?
I've never tried fall recruitment. I'm excited for it, but wish I had two chances. Once to see what it's like...then once again when I know exactly what firm/position I'm gunning for.
U need to have an answer when interviewers ask why you are taking a 5th year. Be mindful of that.
WSO just went to shit. MS thrown at me for no reason when I am offering good professional advice.
Take my advice for what it's worth as I'm a back office ops guy right now but nothing beats work experience and networking (at the company you work for and after work happy hours at the pubs frequented by employees of companies you want to work for.)
I agree that a 5th year when you don't need it seems odd.
I would prefer work experience or at least internships.
I did a fifth year (and a semester) for accounting as a second major.While I graduated without a job, I did land a RE finance role and going to do MM IB this summer. I would say it is in your story. If you have valid reasons for staying (like internship opportunity and adding a major) then I would say do it, as long as the financial burden of school is manageable. PM if you have other questions...
If a company says it hires juniors, can I apply if I am in my penultimate year(currently senior with plans for additional semester)? What do you guys think
Simple: apply, and if they don't want you, they won't ask you to interview.
Staying extra year for Summer Analyst (Originally Posted: 03/05/2013)
Hi everyone,
If the ultimate goal is ibanking, would it be wise to take an extra year of school if you have an offer for an unpaid internship at a very small regional investment bank, even if you have full-time offers in other areas of finance in the realm of consulting, commercial banking, and a one man private equity shop? Could you just use the real banking experience to hit full-time recruiting in September for investment banks? I've never gone through ibanking recruiting before since I didn't get into finance until later in my college career so I won't be seeing the same people again.
Also, I go to a non-target so I would have to 100% network my way into investment banking interviews. I'd be turning down a guaranteed $70k salary from a large financial institution to do an unpaid internship and come out with no FT offer (small shop not hiring FT).
You're going to turn down a "guarenteed $70k salary" [sic] to pay $30-60k to try to get an SA role? Honestly if you haven't already gotten one, there's probably a reason; perhaps you're better off paying that money to someone in the industry to get you in.
Hahahahahaha!!!!! Seriously, kid your fucking retarded if you turn down a paying job for an unpaid internship. Get a job. Some idiot commented a few weeks ago he did 4 unpaid internships over 2 years & is still unemployed.
There is no guarantee you get an interview let alone, a job coming out of a non-target.
If you are stupid enough to pass on the paying job - you don't deserve an IB job.
I agree to some extent. The only thing is that I made no attempt at getting into ibanking until my senior year. Those that I've spoken to in the industry believe I can break in with my experiences and claim that I just need to wait for recruiting season. I'm thinking at this point I simply rebrand at b-school.
Although I'm likely to reject the SA role, I figured I'd throw the post out there because I know someone somewhere is thinking the same thing.
Again, I do not claim to be passing on the job for the SA role. The objective was to simply explore and weigh the options. I am hoping that you are smart enough to understand that before diving straight into personal attacks.
Graduate and take the job offer you have, no question.
Delay graduation for 2nd major - wise? (Originally Posted: 02/22/2012)
Hey all,
I'm about to graduate in 2 months with a finance bachelors. I've had an FT S&T job lined up since august but the recent bleak outlook for Wall St. / academic curiosity has me considering staying an extra semester to finish a double major in math.
Is this wise or even possible? Could I contact the firm and ask them if I can start 6 months later, or would this just lead them to revoke my offer?
I like my current offer, but I feel like a technical degree would let me keep options open in case Wall St. doesn't work out (i.e. getting canned 2 months in with the way things are going now...)
You will probably have a hard time getting an offer off cycle. Do it the opposite way -- take the job, if you get canned, go back for an extra semester if you can't find a better job (I assume your school will allow you to do that). Otherwise you may not be able to get a job at all the way things are going.
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