Does anybody here not drink?
Just curious, does anybody in finance / banking not drink? Sounds like a ridiculous question, but I know NYC especially, has a huge drinking culture. I'm wondering as to whether any of you have personally experienced, or have heard / seen of anyone, be successful, especially in the early stages of their career (SA, analyst, etc) without drinking? Socializing and fitting in is part of assimilating with the company culture and company politics, so how do those that don't drink circumvent this issue?
Always, Stoli on the rocks.
London, nobody cares that you drink and you just wanted to advertise that you do. TOOOOOOOOOOOL!
Sorry, lab. I don't know.
I couldn't imagine being in a stressful (both mind and body) environment as IB and not drinking. To answer your question, No.
I haven't come across anyone in Banking/Finance that doesn't drink. Even the Muslims I know on Wall Street drink.
I'm sure you have your own personal reason for not drinking (assuming you don't), but consider if having the occasional beer really is that contradictory to your morals.
I haven't met anyone that doesnt drink, but if you don't want to drink...just get a beer and nurse it or get a coke...
Honestly, I don't know if that many people give a shit.
Why are you against drinking? We are talking about social drinking (1 -3 drinks a night) not getting wasted (more than 7 drinks in 30 minutes)
I know one girl in finance who doesn't drink. She sucks. Whether or not she sucks because she doesn't drink or not, I don't know, but consensus is she sucks.
I also know one who doesn't drink and consensus was that she sucked--she quit though so that makes the total number of people I know in finance who don't drink 0.
no drinking=no offer
I do drink and intend on having the occasional beer etc, but my glory days of college have to come to an end sometime. I like drinking too much and I tend to go overboard with my buddies and don't know how much longer I can keep this up health-wise. Especially since my family has a history of liver issues, I was thinking it would be in my best interest to tone it down after I graduate.
I also figured there would be people out there that don't drink cause of religious reasons or what not, but I guess that's not the case given the above reactions.
When you guys go out and drink with your co-workers...what's the usual setting? Is it like a beer or two at happy hour / watch a game type thing, or let's meet at xyz club / bar and get obliterated.
lab
friday afternoon after working, its like a beer or two, and talk about sports
friday night or saturday night, sometimes its quite crazy....rounds of shots....
i don't know anyone one who doesn't drink at all, but one of the interns was sort of new to drinking (having been 3 years in college at a big party school)....i don't think it really affected his reputation in my group, but he was kinda annoying when he was drunk which i suspect was because it was pretty new to him, or he is just one of the annoying types when their drunk
when i went out with the group (analysts/associates), it was obliteration basically
when out with more of the group ie vps and mds, it was only a few beers, and i was sure to not get drunk
it certainly helps in this industry to know how to kick back with a few beers, but if you get your work done and its up to expectations, i doubt anyone is going to shun you or anything bc you dont like getting ass wasted
My motto is, if you can hold around 5 shots rapidfire and can still talk and smile without looking like a tool/fake then you're good to go. And make sure that with shots you don't make the noobface immediately after. Also make sure you down the shot in one fast gulp.
Nothing worse than seeing the ugly cringeface or watching someone take 3 small swallows and 20 seconds to finish a shot (usually girls do this shit).
you really don't have to drink, as long as you have an ecstatic personality and that you can have fun without alcohol in the system. If you are however the plain old boring guy, then good luck, cause you will look like a total outsider on many occasions.
I agree with the last post ... Also keep in mind Henry Paulson, the former CEO of Goldman Sachs, and Mitt Romney, not really an investment banker, are two of the most successful businessmen in history and they have never had a sip due to religious reasons.
This sparked an interesting question in my mind. How do bankers view smoking (cigarettes I mean)? Do a lot of bankers smoke due to the stress or is it viewed badly nowadays?
and I don't want to deal with someone who disappears once every while to take a smoke...
I don't drink. Every time I tell my friends or their friends I don't, I get a stare as if they had just seen a ghost.
They then proceed to interrogate me as to why I don't. The whole night then becomes away to get me to drink. Either by paying me, peer pressuring, or trying to switch my drinks as I go to the bathroom. It's quite ridiculous.
I don't see the problem with not drinking. Why do guys value drinking so much?
I also don’t drink and I’ve found a lot of people actually respect it. There are some of those try hards like what you mentioned but those are usually the kind of people I don’t want to be around anyway. Just my view
Alright, if you are easily offended, skip this post. YOU'VE BEEN WARNED.
The second-in-command at my commodities firm didn't drink. This guy was a total fucking freakshow. He was one of these weird germ-o-phobes that was always washing his hands and hated to be touched by anyone. After about a half hour around him, you could tell that he wasn't quite right, that there was something truly malevolent about him. A true sociopath, just a couple notches down from Patrick Bateman.
Anyway, he and this other guy from the firm (a raging alcoholic who ended up drinking himself to death before 40) went out on the town one night and came across a drunken skank that was up for pretty much anything. They took her back to his place where they proceeded to tag team her, filming the whole thing on videotape. They ended up doing some foul shit to her, but it was after she passed out that the fun really began.
This is where it gets borderline criminal, so I won't go into any detail other than to point out that at one point they thought it'd be funny to film a Cleveland Steamer (at least one of them had the presence of mind to cover her chest in Saran Wrap prior to the act). The video went from funny to distasteful to downright disturbing in no time flat.
Of course, the video made the rounds in the pits and cemented in everyone's mind what a total degenerate freak this guy was. But that's not the end of the story. Fast forward about a year when one of the new guys tells everyone he met a girl about 9 months ago and they're getting married. Yup, you guessed it. It's the same chick.
Nobody says anything until they get back from their honeymoon, and then this guy brings the kid into his office and shows him the tape. It just wrecked this kid's fucking life. He was totally devastated. He washed out about a week later, when he couldn't take any more shit from the other traders. I have no idea what happened to him, or if he managed to stay married.
Moral of the story: if a guy is in this line of work and doesn't use booze or drugs to blow off steam, he's probably doing some shit you'd rather not know about. Take it from your old Uncle Eddie, give teetotalers a wide fucking berth. There is something wrong with them.
As for Paulson and Romney - I rest my case.
My cousin was a teetotaler till he became an SA. Then he saw the other SAs sucking up to the MDs and VPs over drinks and realised he was missing out on all the butt kissing. So he finally started nursing a pint of beer, accidentally took a sip and since then has never looked back to his 'teetotaling' days. I guess drinking is very very important in IB to network with the seniors.
There are a couple of guys in my team including my boss who don't drink. Both gave up drinking on the behest of their wives as far as I could make out. They are older though. Of the younger people I don't know anybody who doesn't drink at all, though there are some, mainly chicks, who will drink very rarely.
A guy I knew did not convert is SA to FT last year at an MM shop because he didn't drink. They said his work/attitude was fine, but drinking was a part of their culture.
Edmundo... admit it... the raging alcoholic degenerate accomplice in your story is you.
I'm a bit skeptical though... it that situation, everyone would either have the "its not my place to tell him" or "I've got to tell him" perspective before he got married. In any case, great story.
I'm afraid the drunk in my story made me look like a choir boy. He went out in a blaze of glory, though. I'll say that much for him.
You must not know many commodities traders, Marcus. Either that, or some semblance of decency has crept into the commodities game since I left it a decade ago. The reason nobody told him was because everyone wanted to witness the train wreck that would ensue if he actually ended up marrying her (which he did). There was plenty of talk behind his back, but he obviously never got wise to it.
I think it helped that he didn't actually introduce her to anyone from the firm until about a month before they were married, otherwise the cat very well could have come out of the bag.
It was pretty sick. You'd have loved it. His level of human suffering was a joy to behold. Good times.
Any other comments on smoking during the day? I'm gonna be starting as an SA soon and I'm wondering how smoking will be perceived at the office?
On evenings that I do get to enjoy NYC nightlife, occasional encounters with insane traders are not too far-fetched. Everytime I see guys fighting at a nice place up here, I always think to myself "that d-bag probably forgot to cover his position today..."
Traders drink more than a sailor. To thier credit however, a good reason is always given as to the occasion of the binge. If they had a good day trading - "I made $XXX,XXX today lets go get hammered, in contrast if they lost a bunch of money, they drink because "life is short". Indeed.
Plus people incorrectly blame us bankers for the financial crisis, when it is traders that should be blamed. As far as commodity traders are concerned, when you put a crazy person (trader) to trade a highly volatile product (commodities), you are certain to get some entertainment out of it.
I vote MTV does a "Real Life - I am a commodity trader", and we can all sit back, down a beer, and examine the irrationality and drama of the show.
We had a gym with a boxing ring a couple blocks from the office. Any trading disputes that couldn't be settled in the office got settled there after market hours.
Where the hell do these insane traders hang out ? I've never even seen a fight in NYC and I'm out frequently on weekdays. The trader lifestyle totally sounds like my kinda thing..
But if you're looking for traders, you'll have better luck finding them in dive bars in Chelsea and Brooklyn than at any trendy nightclub.
You have to understand the trader persona. It's not about impressing anyone except other traders. Anyone else (including the CEOs of Investment Banks) are lesser beings, and aren't worth the steam off your shit.
Why would you go pay $300 for a bottle of Stoli when that same $300 will get you fucking obliterated with your bros in Brooklyn?
You see, a banker can throw his platinum on the bar and end up buying drinks for wannabe models all night and end up with a $7,000 tab and a chick that is maybe willing to jerk him off under the table. A trader throws his plastic on the bar and buys drinks for all his buddies all night long and gets out of there for under a grand with a bridge-and-tunnel Jersey skank (or two) under his arm and a story for all his buddies in the morning.
On April 15, the trader writes a check to the feds for a banker's annual salary.
I know this because I've been on both sides of the coin.
Sorry if I'm momentarily breaking up the awesomeness of this thread, but this is for the OP: if you have 1-3 drinks, a couple times of week, your liver will be fine, as a matter of fact, it's good for your heart.
Back to business: I wouldn't be surprised commodity traders from a decade+ ago would act like that, but I really doubt exotic credit traders were crushing beers and slaying hoes out in BK the last few years. Is that why you retired?
I don't drink at all--MAYBE 6 drinks per year. In my IB analyst stint I could tell that people thought I was arrogant because I didn't drink. The truth is, I don't like the taste of alcohol and preferred to save the $5,000/year I would have otherwise spent on it. It's actually one of the reasons I made the jump from investment banking to real estate (culture is totally different)--I was sick of being left out and made the freakshow.
My advice to you is to learn to drink in moderation--if you can't drink in moderation, then I still wouldn't drink. Risking your life isn't worth it.
I don't drink either. Will it really cost me a return offer if I don't?
I would think traders would do a lot more drinking nowadays, and not because they're celebrating...
HORRIBLE idea.... I never understood why people would do that. Granted, for that short amount of time you will prob forget, but in most cases it may even intensify the dreadful feeling. Then the morning after... really... Unless your drinking 24/7 (like many people do) I don't recommend this.
Well I can only speak for one firm specifically that I interned with soph summer but half the people there were legit alcoholics and there are a lot of rumors of depression as well. Some would take a shot before eating breakfast as well.
hahaha great post. I have not been drunk since labor day. If anyone would like more true stories about crazy ass commodity traders go get "RIGGED" by Ben Mezrich and read the first couple chapters.
out my entire SA class, there were 2 girls that never went out with any of us...this became noticeable and they were then labeled the "outcasts." so, my advice would be to go out and nurse a drink or two. it really isn't that big of a deal to do so and nobody will notice that you are a few (or many) behind. someone else touched on it above, but drinking and going out is very much a part of the "wall street culture." you dont have to fit that mold to do well, but you might rub some ppl the wrong way if you continuously decline their invitations to grab a drink after work.
We have a beer cart on Friday afternoons (I probably just gave up where I work). Needless to say 95% of bankers drink. The ones that don't are generally the arabs.
My advice would be to go out with everyone and just chill on one drink for a long time. Like another poster mentioned, as long as you're a fun guy, everything should be fine. Turning down invitations will definitely rub people the wrong way.
I used to go out on the town 3-4 times a week, but I gave up alcohol for Lent. The first week and a half of sobriety was pretty tough, but I've actually gotten used to it now and I feel great about just being able to order a club soda on the rocks (people can't tell the difference between a gin and tonic and a club soda unless they taste it...also helps me save my paycheck and my liver). I find that a lot of people drink because it helps them ease up a little in social situations, but I don't have a problem staying relaxed and being social even without alcohol. Besides, who would be so silly as to think that you have to drink in order to hang out with your friends or colleagues? We're not in college anymore, and Animal House is only a movie.
So, to answer your question, as of a few weeks ago I'd consider myself as one of those that don't drink. My friends and colleagues respect and even admire my decision not to drink. Frankly, I don't think anyone even cares. I'm just as cool as I was a few weeks ago -- I just don't drink anymore.
Hope that helps.
If you can't frat out, you don't belong in a bank bro.
Enjoy
nobody cares if you drink or don't drink where i work (in banking). its really a non-issue
what if you can't drink for health reasons. what's a good excuse to use so people won't think you're trying to get sympathy?
^ tell them last time you had a shot, you were in amsterdam and ended up killing two hookers. You left the country in a hurry and vowed never to drink again.
I don't drink. The way to handle it is to not point it out and sip a diet coke in a glass. I'm 26 and if someone asks, I say I used to but I just don't dig it anymore; don't like the taste or feeling much. That way they don't think I'm some holier than though douche.
Yeah I don't drink but sipping on something is def. something I have to do, so as not to stand out. I do not drink thanks to that fucking bear that used to come to my elementary school when I was younger and used to tell us the side effects of drugs/alcohol. But, on a serious note I believe in controlling myself at all times and would not do anything that compromises my ability to make sound judgment at anytime. Considering I live w/ a football player at a SEC school...this is tough.
I don't drink. I'm a college freshman though. If you don't make it a big issue, then I doubt anyone else will.
I would take the stories about commodity traders with a grain of salt, I used to work at the NYMEX as a runner in the natural gas pit and I can categorically guarantee you the open outcry pit traders are light years away from the traders I met at the BB banks. Many barely graduated high school.
Up to 20% of all Wall Street guys aren´t effected that much by stress, cause they do a lot of sports to balance their stress level. Most people who run the NY Marathon came from Finance.
But when you climb up in Finance, stress is risin. Most people say high compensation can be seen as compensation for personal suffering
Coming from a canadian school, in a big city where the drinking culture is huge. I think I only know one friend of mine who does not drink and he just became of age to drink. Needless to say, Im not really surprised since the name of the school is symbolic to the alcohol industry in north america.
There's a Budweiser College?
In on non-drinking thread
Surely there is a recovering alcoholic banker out there. May be harder to find an analyst that doesn't drink.
I drink socially, maybe a beer on a Thursday during the week, maybe a few on the weekends.
You can drink a whole beer without feeling hungover the next day?
Ut ipsam et voluptas quos eum aut placeat id. Quibusdam harum delectus corporis veritatis incidunt doloribus perspiciatis. Numquam error ipsum dolore temporibus ex explicabo sunt laborum. Labore magni aliquid laborum voluptatem. Ut saepe animi quam porro sed et est et. Ab id qui asperiores aut temporibus hic consequatur aut. Ut et earum voluptatem aut eligendi consequatur.
Velit voluptatem corrupti maxime quasi ut soluta in nemo. Sunt ducimus voluptatem et neque omnis laudantium necessitatibus. Ad aut sed vitae consequatur assumenda eum qui.
Rerum voluptas dolore iste. Sed a minima amet et. Ad ut totam voluptas iusto est. Natus adipisci maiores odit ad quia ut sapiente enim. Velit praesentium quibusdam ducimus quo commodi id dolorum nisi.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Quos est ut quam repudiandae fugit. Et et et cum in harum. Quos facilis quos suscipit ad odit nam et.
Nostrum rerum quia a sint reiciendis rerum et. Recusandae ea eum minima eligendi facere et.
Nemo autem quisquam commodi accusamus officia voluptatum perferendis. Cumque velit aspernatur recusandae est. Voluptatem aut laboriosam ad laudantium est. Id repellat illo enim quos praesentium voluptas culpa sed. Dolores libero dolore animi et at ipsa accusamus. Doloremque repellat quia aut nulla magni unde.
Quia et dolores exercitationem voluptatem est ipsum. Eveniet ut cumque iste iusto architecto ad sed. Ipsa odit consequuntur architecto ut consequuntur sit. Autem earum vel modi est dignissimos excepturi. Dolorem eum est est unde autem.
Enim debitis quo recusandae distinctio consectetur autem commodi. Odio sint ipsam soluta dolore laudantium quam culpa. Iste et similique consequatur illo. Qui illo unde ipsa nesciunt.
Debitis quidem enim qui quaerat necessitatibus non repellat. Non vel nobis accusantium dolores at adipisci molestiae.
Nemo necessitatibus voluptas occaecati rerum optio est eos incidunt. Numquam delectus nihil dolore. Quo impedit inventore aut nisi. Dolor quo a repellendus ducimus qui dolorem est molestiae. Fugiat optio quia iusto modi non iusto. Nihil aut reprehenderit voluptates voluptas eum esse.
Sit dolor fuga expedita voluptatibus et perspiciatis. Architecto ut aperiam aspernatur et. Laudantium sit perferendis eum animi excepturi soluta aliquid. At sit dolores inventore incidunt amet. Qui saepe commodi porro adipisci.