Does Finance Major Actually Help?

Do you guys think that majoring in finance actually helps you things you need to know to work in IB, HF, or PE, or can all the stuff be learned in the first few weeks of the job? Is finance major really a stepping stone, something to get you in the door, or is it something that helps you? What are your thoughts?

 

Well, not so much to get hired, but I am more asking of the general usefulness of the major. Do you think its a worthwhile major? Or, do you learn everything you need to learn in the fields of IB, HF, or PE in the first few weeks of work?

 
 

Yes thats what I thought as well, before I learned English majors were actually hired. Which then brings up the point...what is even the point of college, if in 4 years of studying finance, you are not ahead in that field of an english major. Or, is it just that hedge funds or banking jobs are so easy to learn, that it doesn't require prior knowledge?

 
 

The major is very theoretical whereas the work is... well, practical. A lot of MBA students have this reaction when they start... they ask me why we do such and such differently from what they learned in school, and I always just say, "This is how things work in banking."

Majoring in finance is good to show you have an interest in the field, and you will be ahead of someone who majored in English. But the reality is these jobs can be learned by anyone in a matter of months because there is nothing super-complicated except for maybe some very quant-focused hedge funds.

Personally, I wouldn't major in finance just to get an IBD job. If you're interested in the subject, that's one thing, but doing it just to get a job doesn't make sense.

 

i know someone who got into a quant-focused shop with a "useless" (for lack of better word) major - think philosophy/government/english and no relevant minor. they couldnt even program when they started.

 

What? How is that even possible? You need to be a top 1%-10% to get a quant job. You need to be really good in probability, stats, programming, calculus, linear algebra. Basically, you have to be a genius.

 

It's not tooo uncommon for guys to have philosophy majors at quant firms but they usually come from competitive math backgrounds. I'm surprised he didn't have any programming experience though.

 

As someone working in banking with a non-finance major, I can tell you it is a little bit of a disadvantage. Things that are intuitive to others are foreign to you and you must quickly adjust and get caught up whenever a new idea or concept is introduced. That said, after your two years you will be proficient in finance as well as whatever you majored in. This, I believe, is a bit of an edge in general.

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It'll give you an intuitive edge without a doubt. Finance can certainly be taught via bank training programs, but in reality, all you're learning is how to perform the same tasks over and over again. If you really want to get a solid understanding of capital markets, major in Economics (you'll actually have to understand concepts instead of just plugging numbers into a formula).

In reality, banks recruit all types of majors. They really only care about GPA. The best strategy, IMO, is to choose an easier major (read: English, History, etc) and coast to a 3.7+.

I know people will probably respond to this post saying majors like English/History/Poli Sci are difficult, but that just isn't true. If English is your native language, majoring in a writing-intensive subject is a cake walk. You literally have to be an awful writer and/or retarded to not graduate with honors.

 
Best Response
mlamb93:
It'll give you an intuitive edge without a doubt. Finance can certainly be taught via bank training programs, but in reality, all you're learning is how to perform the same tasks over and over again. If you really want to get a solid understanding of capital markets, major in Economics (you'll actually have to understand concepts instead of just plugging numbers into a formula).

In reality, banks recruit all types of majors. They really only care about GPA. The best strategy, IMO, is to choose an easier major (read: English, History, etc) and coast to a 3.7+.

I know people will probably respond to this post saying majors like English/History/Poli Sci are difficult, but that just isn't true. If English is your native language, majoring in a writing-intensive subject is a cake walk. You literally have to be an awful writer and/or retarded to not graduate with honors.

This post reeks of ignorance. English being your native language does not somehow guarantee an A average in an English major. People are way too quick to think that a lack of numbers makes a major easier. Acting like econ or finance is some insanely difficult degree is ridiculous. I was an econ major, and I'm quite sure I would've been thrashed by some upper level English classes.

 
TheKing][quote=mlamb93:
People are way too quick to think that a lack of numbers makes a major easier. Acting like econ or finance is some insanely difficult degree is ridiculous.

King: I never said that Econ/Finance was insanely difficult. I only said that I thought Econ was more comprehensive from a business standpoint. If you're a smart person and a good writer, you can naturally do well in subjects like English without having to try that hard (I took similar upper-level courses in college and am speaking from personal experience)

I would also assert that I am not the only one who places a higher degree of difficulty on quantitative subjects. Why do you think B-Schools look so closely at grades in undergrad quant courses/your math score on the GMAT?

Sorry to come off in such an abrasive manner. Guess I'm a bit antsy in my cube this week since everyone else has off.

 

English is definitely not a simple major. In my college, you need a 3.6 to graduate summa cum laude in English but a 3.9 in finance or economics. Also, in English, you study a lot of literature which is not really that facile.

 

I agree that you can definitely breeze through college with a 4.0 in finance and think it was the biggest joke of your life. That's how I felt up until a few months ago. The classes I took were easy, to say the least. However, then I took a class that really challenged me, made me think, and showed just how little I actually knew about finance. It all depends on the instructor, and on how much he wants to teach you. The theory behind finance is not difficult; the formulas are easy as hell, and there are only a few crucial definitions you need to know. However, the trick is learning which number to pick, how ti sift through all the data and come up with what you need. That's the tough part. So yes, although finance might be easy for you (if you took some joke of a class where differentiating between EBIT and EBITDA was the major topic of discussion), there are definitely classes you can take which will whip your ass into shape.

 

This thread is pretty dumb. The usefullness/difficulty of the major depends on two things...

1)What you are interested and good at. I am interested in finance, and it clicks in my head, so I am able to do well. My buddy is starting med school, if I tried to do that I would have no idea what was going on, but if he tried doing finance, he'd be lost as well. Majoring in finance will give you an edge in understanding the concepts behind all the numbers you will be plugging into excel so you may actually understand what is going on.

2)It completely depends on your school's program and the classes/professors you have. Sure you could get a prof teaching an easy class and CRUISE through it with an A while doing no work. Or you could have a total ass who actually expects his/her students to learn something and can actually be extremely difficult.

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After training, everyone is equal. I majored in a humanities field (think English, History) and at this point I think I'm just as knowledgeable (for the purposes of IBD) as the Wharton kids at my bank, never mind how much more fun I had at college actually studying something that I enjoyed and would likely never have the chance to do again in the professional world.

 

If you attend a state university, breaking into finance without a finance degree probably borders on the impossible. Sure, banks hire out of all kinds of majors, but of course most liberal arts majors hired into banking (or any finance-heavy field) are out of top liberal arts or Ivy League schools.

I don't know what programs these posters got their finance degrees in, but finance was utterly killer at my school with a large drop-out rate. I passed L1 of the CFA exam with only my school's finance degree and about 150 hours of study (mostly ethics reading).

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This is a very interesting topic for me because I'm starting college at an ivy right now and trying to decide whether I should major in economics or not. My instincts tell me yes, and I am very interested in it, but I also have other interests in the humanities that I'd like to pursue. Maybe I'll just take classes in different subjects and see where that takes me..

 

zykke - Sometimes an econ major is only 8-10 classe - At least its like that at my school (an Ivy). So if you can take 1 class a semester and get a major in Econ, and you are interested in it, you may as well, right?

That said, and no offense to finance majors (banks hire them more than any other major for sure [of course, there are also way more trying to get in from a finance major]), but I think undergraduate business school is pointless. The way I see it (and please don't take offense at this, I'm just giving my rationale), you are limiting yourself by majoring in business. It's somewhat hierarchical: if I major in electrical engineering (and I am), I can go into just about anything a business major can (literally - sales, marketing, finance, etc), either right out of school or down the road (with an MBA, certainly, but even without its a pretty usual path). I can also go into electrical engineering, software engineering, computer engineering, could go to grad school in physics or economics or anything technical and a lot of things nontechnical (law, MBA, etc), and generally will have 10x as many doors open as a finance major.

School, in my opinion, is about learning how to learn. People go to college (and not trade school) for two reasons: (1) to learn how to learn, and (2) to prove they are smart

Employers (no matter their variety) want people that have two qualities: (1) they are smart (2) they get things done

[In the end, and you can argue all you want about any other quality, and employers (especially banks) can list the 5 things that make their employees special, but this is all anyone gives a rats ass about]

Sure, you don't have to understand quantum mechanics to become a banker, but, at least in my [probably far too logical] head, someone that can truly understand that, and has gone through an intense 4-year physics or math or engineering curriculum, has done 10x more to prove they are (1) smart and (2) get things done than someone who breezed through an undergraduate finance program so they could get a job in banking.

So anyway, thats my long-winded take on quantitative majors and going into finance with a quant major. Take it for what it's worth, and please don't take offense if you are a finance/business major, this is simply my logic (not backed up at all by anything except the fact that banks hire plenty of engineers where I go to school). Obviously, engineers need to fight the stereotype that they are all too nerdy/antisocial/quantitative to make it in banking...but really, if you can look someone in the eye and speak somewhat confidently its not that hard to do.

 

I disagree VTech. If finance is "incredibly challenging" then you would never succeed in engineering. As a former pre-med/Math major, I can attest to the fact that the finance major is a joke. I guess it's all relative; starting out with finance may appear difficult compared to high school, but in reality it really doesn't require much work. I've spoken to students from nearly every target (yes, Wharton too) and most agree that the major isn't particularly difficult given an appropriate investment in studying. You can still lead a very regular life: join a frat, go out 3 nights a week, skip classes, etc. and you'll be fine. Engineering... not so much.

 

I agree with aloki, I am an EECS major at a top engineering program, I think it is true that for engineering even if you invest all your time studying, you still won't understand certain topic. We got sleeping bags in our computer lab! LOL (my friend told me berkeley got them too.) But still, difficulty rating is relative, but if you want to just compare the amount of discipline, math, physics and abstract theory, finance can't beat engineering, esp EE and ChemE.

But I think we diverged the topic quiet a bit. I feel studying finance is very useful, when I studied for CFA I I think it is very interesting, practical and very market oriented. I had fun learning from it and am not sure if CFA I & II indeed covers the undergrad finance materials. If it does then you can also study on your own while choose a major that you like.

just my two cents.

 
fafa:
majors dont matter as much as people think. i mean banks hire english majors...over kids who majored in finance so what does that say.

Yeah, maybe as tellers or custimer service reps. But not as fniancial analysts or risk managers. The salary difference is HUGE between the the two groups...your an idiot bro

 

I totally agree on the fact that employers look for - can this kid learn, and prove he is smart. Also, your major extracurricular activites are important. so if your a finance major get into finance clubs, investment funds, etc.

I wanted to ask- Do you think an accounting major is valuable in these industries (IB, HF, PE, AM, etc..) Also, Do you think an accounting major would help more than a finance major? or both is the way to go?

 

Majoring in Finance is a great stepping stone IF you actually want to stay and work in the business field. Financial officer, advisor, investment bankers. Not to mention that its a great stepping stone to a master degree which would open other doors such as teaching, management positions.

Studying finance is

 

Bankers on the junior levels - Analayst/Associate (hoe you'd come in from an unrelated profession) are paid the same base across the class (although some banks pay direct promotes (analyst to associate) a little less in base than those that come as B school grads) - the difference is in the bonus, which is based on your performance, not your u grad major.

To answer your initial question, you absolutely do not have to be a business/finance major to get into banking - in fact, most students that get in from target u grads are not business majors (fin, acct - not including economics).

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drexelalum11:
It is a soft major, but no, you can get a job with it. You can get a job with any major though, so why waste your time studying finance?
hmm gee let me think, maybe cause u enjoy it and want 2 educate yoself on the field u want 2 make a career in?
 
littlebitconfuzzled:
Because I want a job in finance and because I am interested in it. For example, I'm not really interested in engineering, and therefore do not want to major in it.

What about the double majors?

A double major is a good idea and will help, so long as it doesn't hurt your gpa.

Would recommend against solely majoring in math though, particularly at a school like NYU. Ultimately, the finance major will have more opportunities.

 

Hum... Go with Math up to probability & DiffEq., CS with C++ &/or Java Physics 2/3 and most doors will be open. Double majoring would be good but a bit too much (unless you're gifted), it will take a tool on your networking/extracurriculars and life. This is mostly what applies in engineering to finance anyways... Do good in those and put that in your resume. You'll have an edge ;-)

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Hamdallr-monkey:
Hum... Go with Math up to probability & DiffEq., Physics 2/3 and most doors will be open.

By differential equations, do you mean something like this? http://www.math.princeton.edu/undergraduate/course/MAT427

Or the watered down version engineers take, which essentially covers separation of variables, variation of parameters, reduction of order, laplace transforms and maybe a few basic linear systems?

Also, how is physics 2/3 relevant at all? Or are you just suggesting it to prove some sort of basic quantitative ability?

NYU's graduate math department is top 10 (tied with Columbia and Yale)...

This would be relevant if the goal was graduate school in mathematics. I could be completely wrong, but I doubt this helps with regards to finance recruitment.

 

Thanks for all the responses, and particularly to those who were direct and helpful!

1) Just to clear this up: Is NYU Stern a target or not? According to JDawg and general knowledge, it is. According to swagon, it may not be, although I think he may be referring to something else there.

2) I'm pretty good at math, but the toughest math class I've taken in high school is AP Calc AB. I don't know what my score will be on that yet.

3) I am definitely going to NYU Stern. Therefore, I am definitely going to major in something there. For the sake of argument, lets say I will major in Finance, as that is far and beyond the most likely scenario.

4) I can double major. People do this all the time, particularly in accounting/management/international business, or something like food science. @syntheticshit - I can double major in math, but it is obviously difficult. I'm not sure about being able to take graduate level classes. I could also double major or minor in computer science, physics, economics, management, and basically about anything else. There are also computer science and computer science and math minors specifically for Stern students.

5) Does learning to program outside of classes, like during the summer or taking classes somewhere else, have the same benefit as learning to program in college, or in having a comp sci minor? Do you need to know how to program, or is having a comp sci background valuable?

6) The other reason I wanted to do a double major in comp sci or physics, for example, was so that if the whole finance thing didn't work out, I would have a back-up plan.

7) Just curious. Why is Wharton considered a trade school moreso than Haas/Stern/Ross/Sloan, etc . . are?

Sorry this is so long! Thank you for all your insight.

 

i think grades is more important. you can double or triple major but if your GPA is gonna hit below 3 then I say don't bother. Maths and computing can be a very hard topic for some people.

For me personally, I purposely took some some Arts courses to pull up my GPA, while at the same time keeping my Finance Major.

 

I did stats AND math ...contributed to my awesome 2.0 GPA. However, my majors also allowed me to zip through the CFA & CAIA in 2 years flat and I'm pretty much the excel god in my firm. I say do what you like...the high GPA vs high difficulty thing will even itself out eventually.

__________
 

Just major in Finance and do school year unpaid internships. I did one during the Fall semester and that helped me immensely in my summer internship search. Also, try not to get too distracted by NY.

Congrats. Stern is very much a target and a nice experience if you're really into business. And there are quite a few good-looking people in the program (in my opinion, at least :p ).

 
seedy underbelly:
Just major in Finance and do school year unpaid internships. I did one during the Fall semester and that helped me immensely in my summer internship search. Also, try not to get too distracted by NY.

Congrats. Stern is very much a target and a nice experience if you're really into business. And there are quite a few good-looking people in the program (in my opinion, at least :p ).

Can you please list some of these distractions.

 

I do a stats + finance degree. Without the word 'finance' or econ etc your resume is not taken seriously imo. I know so many quality people who study, say geology, but end up being 'categorised' even before they have chosen a division. finance/econ etc lets you keep your options open imo.

 

Just take the regular courses people in your program would take, and more importantly score high marks in them. Then in second year you can look to make your electives certain math/CS courses and work towards a minor.

The thing with majoring in finance is that you can (obviously) work in finance. Engineers and other majors might look more favourable but they need the marks which are harder to get and also have to make the "Why Finance?" case. Personally, my accounting is rather weak and had I majored in accounting/finance I might have found technical interviews easier and had more closely related job experience.

 
You'll learn more finance in a month of banking than you will in four years of undergrad. Do something else interesting; something that you won't have the chance to do after graduating. People like to argue university is an education, and it is, but not in a hands-on, learn a trade, sense. If you want to learn a trade, go to a trade school (aka Wharton). Good universities teach you how to think, how to construct and challenge arguments, how to evaluate evidence and independently arrive at new, interesting, important conclusions. You can learn this as well from Shakespeare as you can from Black-Scholes. Hell, you can learn this better from Shakespeare than from Black-Scholes.

I totally agree with this. If I could do it all over again, I would definitely not have studied finance. I love finance and working in the finance industry, but I deeply regret wasting my four years of college learning about valuation, excel modeling, and accounting.

 

Thanks for all the input. This is what I've decided.

I want to study finance because I want to go into finance. I don't think engineering or hard science by itself is interesting, but am fascinated by economics.

I am going to NYU Stern. I will major (concentrate) in one of the following: Finance, economics, or accounting I am going to double-major or minor in one of the following: Math, computer science, physics I want my double major to also give me a backup plan, so I am not going to choose another business-related major. Or something like a double major and a minor, but that could be crazy. I will take advantage of being in NYC to intern during the year, and also intern during the summer, join finance clubs, etc . . . I will learn to program

Sound like a plan?

 
littlebitconfuzzled:
Thanks for all the input. This is what I've decided.

I want to study finance because I want to go into finance. I don't think engineering or hard science by itself is interesting, but am fascinated by economics.

I am going to NYU Stern. I will major (concentrate) in one of the following: Finance, economics, or accounting I am going to double-major or minor in one of the following: Math, computer science, physics I want my double major to also give me a backup plan, so I am not going to choose another business-related major. Or something like a double major and a minor, but that could be crazy. I will take advantage of being in NYC to intern during the year, and also intern during the summer, join finance clubs, etc . . . I will learn to program

Sound like a plan?

no one gives a shit

 
littlebitconfuzzled:
@melvvar - so you read the entire post, then bothered to quote it and then comment, just to tell me that "no one gives a shit"?

You're an idiot.

you're a high school nobody. go ahead and take advice from other clueless high scholers pretending to be finance professionals.

 
littlebitconfuzzled:
Honestly, at this point I'm just doing this because its entertaining. Its hilarious how some people soothe their egos by showing off to high school students. Go play with someone your own size.

it's quite entertaining to me too.

 

If you go to Stern, you need to major in finance. It's that simple. The placement rate out of the school is stellar, but you need to have that as the foundation. Attending there and majoring in something else if you want to work in finance is idiotic. That doesn't mean you can't pick a second major (stats or math if you are interested in the markets vs. accounting or a liberal arts co-major for banking), but it is the foundation.

Since you say you have committed and deposited and will be attending, you need to declare finance. Screw around with the gen-ed requirements, see what interests you, and then by late sophomore or early junior year you should know what your second major will be if you are planning to take it.

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Re: Choosing Stern. I didn't exactly have many options. I didn't know about his website when I chose my college, but based on people's response to someone else who was making the same decision, Stern is the right choice.

Does it make any sense to major in physics as the 2nd major? (First major = finance. Got that) There's a good chance I'm taking a physics course to fulfill a requirement anyways, but I'm trying to decide if it makes sense to choose a class that would count towards a physics major or not.

 
littlebitconfuzzled:
Re: Choosing Stern. I didn't exactly have many options. I didn't know about his website when I chose my college, but based on people's response to someone else who was making the same decision, Stern is the right choice.

Does it make any sense to major in physics as the 2nd major? (First major = finance. Got that) There's a good chance I'm taking a physics course to fulfill a requirement anyways, but I'm trying to decide if it makes sense to choose a class that would count towards a physics major or not.

no one gives a shit

 
littlebitconfuzzled:
Re: Choosing Stern. I didn't exactly have many options. I didn't know about his website when I chose my college, but based on people's response to someone else who was making the same decision, Stern is the right choice.

Does it make any sense to major in physics as the 2nd major? (First major = finance. Got that) There's a good chance I'm taking a physics course to fulfill a requirement anyways, but I'm trying to decide if it makes sense to choose a class that would count towards a physics major or not.

Dude, stop asking the same question again. Honestly, what are you, a moron?

  • Major in Finance
  • Pick any second major you want (no one cares what it is)
  • Do school-year internships (you're in an even more convenient location than I was in - Morning side Heights)
  • Shut up

Hope this helps.

PS: Stop bitching about Stern recruiting. The boutique I'm working at this summer has twice as many Stern students than my HYP school. If you can't get IB out of Stern, you're not simply not good enough.

 

OP -- Stern isn't the best school in the world, but it's enough of a target that you can do fine in the IBD recruiting game with just a finance major. Get good grades and try not to be a socially awkward douche and you should be fine.

 

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