GETCO vs Jump vs DRW vs Optiver

given the secretive nature of some of these places, you'll be hardpressed to get accurate information about compensation, culture, and work. they're all selective, a few more than others.

Both of these firms recruited from Illinois when I was a senior several years ago, and I managed to pick up a little information about these firms while I was focusing on the New York investment banks. My impressions are pretty limited and a little dated, but they might still be helpful in the absence of other information

GETCO is arguably one of the most selective- and secretive- prop shops out there. They are particularly careful about finding brilliant people (smarter even than most people on the trading floors at most bulge-bracket investment banks) who are good cultural fits. By "Cultural Fit", they're looking for intellectuals who are usually quiet and down to earth but can be both very aggressive, creative, and very nice/respectful all at the same time when the situation calls for it. My impression is that it seems like a Google-like culture that also requires a little aggressiveness/assertiveness. If you make it to final round interviews, I think you'll get a call from one of the senior partners who interviewed you either way. If you're rejected, I've heard they will tell you that it's a huge compliment to even make it to final round interviews with them and not to feel bad about it, and then they will give you a detailed synopsis of what went well and what went wrong in the interviews. From people who've gotten offers, I've gotten the impression that those people wouldn't be happy anywhere else in finance- or at least at your typical investment bank or hedge fund. I wish I had more information than that, but if I did, I'm guessing I'd probably already be working there or dead.

In order to get hired at Jump Trading, you usually need to have a very strong programming background. Last I checked, they only picked up college hires out of UIUC and MIT and I believe they look for similarly strong backgrounds in experienced hires. In order to survive at Jump for more than six months, you need to be a rock-star developer who can also make money in algorithmic trading- many people who get hired by Jump get laid off several months later. Basically, it's sink-or-swim in Class III Rapids, and the swimmers get a lot of responsibility and trading capital very quickly, while the sinkers are out on the street. If you don't like that kind of risk, a good alternative is to come in through technology at an investment bank or hedge fund and see if you can transfer over to algorithmic trading after two years. If you can't survive in trading but you're otherwise a competent programmer, they will find a way to keep you.

I think both of these prop shops are headquartered in Chicago. In other words, you probably don't want to be applying for a New York position unless you really want to work in NYC.

If you go to Getco, you are set for life.

I've heard rumors that people who get hired by GETCO never want to leave, and that it's not in a "BEN TRIFFEN IS THE MOST AMAZING DEAR LEADER EVER" sort of way. I'm guessing it has to do with the finances, culture, or some combination of both.

+2 for the getco comment. I only know a couple of people that have gone there, and they both are extraordinarily bright. Granted, I think you could be "set for life" at any of those places up there if you did well enough. The chance of that happening at Getco seems to be a (much much) higher though (just an impression).

would getco be better than jane street then?

why would you choose jane street over getco if you don't know what jane street does?

I just wanted to get info on both firms.

getco has the bigger potential upside, even if base is lower. i know people who interned at jane st but chose/would have chosen getco (doesn't take interns) for full-time.

Uhh, I actually met an intern from Getco who was a student at UIUC. They don't have a formal internship program, but they do have interns. If they recruit on your campus and you are a freshman or sophomore and summer in Chicago, it wouldn't hurt to go up and talk to one of their recruiters. I'm not sure if (or, if applicable, how much) they pay their interns, but they do HAVE interns.

Jump hires a lot of people from Stanford - interns and full-time. They also hire from MIT. The atmosphere resembles a software company although not as zany as a start-up. I think they share a building with some internet start-ups. The first-round interview was regular plus two math/logic questions (it is not expect that you are able to answer both - they just want a sense of your thinking). The second-round interview was on-site. There was a programming problem and some math questions (pretty easy - eigenvectors, optimization, conditional prob). You get a fit interview with one of the partners. Afterward, all the candidates and interviewers go out to dinner.

First off.. The deals these places give is kinda shitty, unless you plan on working for the rest of your life. Look up Getco's salaries ..

http://www.jobs-salary.com/salary-of-getco-llc.htm

60K. and probably a bonus up to 30k, which realistically means 20k. If you are a trader and you make 80k a year, you are not a trader. You are a monkey that clicks and updates software and creates a few simple models, and gets paid shit for it. I work for these companies, so i know.

Ok, so why do "traders" work for shitty pay. The new prop trading business model has changed from the 60/40 split to an "incentive" based model. This new model is designed to get more collaborative effort, while making it more difficult to assess the individual, making it better for the company and worse for the individual. A real trader knows a shitty deal when he sees one.

So, the question becomes, how do you retain intelligent employees who learn proprietary information without paying them too much?

The answer is: You hire intelligent people, who have no trading ability, so that they are really appreciative that they are making 80k instead of the 50k they would be worth in reality.

The few companies on the top: Jump, DRW, Getco, Optiver.. etc. all have the same business model. They are able to monopolise these spaces casue the barrier to entry is so high. As the cost of trading comes down, and new exchanges emerge, like ELX, which make it possible for new guys to enter, these bigger shops are going to be in a bit of trouble. and the invisible hand of the market will slap them.

LOL @ looking at jobs-salary for realistic numbers

I don't know anyone who works there, but everything I've heard indicates that Getco is an excellent firm and that people there can make a ton of money. The base salary for first-years is probably around $60K (which is decent money if you're single and living in Chicago), but it probably goes up quickly after that. Their interview process is the toughest out of any Chicago firm, even moreso than Citadel.

its worth noting that jobs-salary is only going to give salary information and not bonus information. GETCO in particular is a very bonus focused place. One of the top guys, when they came to my school for recruiting, announced that his salary of 120K is one of the highest in the company. they also do bonuses quarterly. I promise no one is poor there.

bonuses at getco are quite large >> BB and all other prop shops

Do you have to be a recent graduate in order to get an interview at one of these prop firms ? In other words, what kind of a profile do they typically look for when hiring entry-level positions ?

in case ur retarded.. i was saying that these firms are not prop firms. prop firms don't pay large salaries. and getco isn't giving out 100% bonus.. don't make me start name dropping

Also, I work within HR and the salary postings listed here are way off....

I think Tradergirl, formally known as Bron, is in HR at IMC....maybe I'm wrong though

Yeah IMC, look at her job postings

heard drw overhired assist traders this year. they have almost 2 assit traders per trader now. traditionally their assist trader to trader conversion rate has been very high amongst prop trading firms. almost 100%. but this year is rumored to be very competitive environment to be promoted to trader.

It's fun to look at yall talk about this stuff. =)

In terms of actual trading though, GETCO and JUMP do algo trading, 100% computer trading, so its very much software company atmosphere...kinda. i do believe and DRW and Optiver do somewhere inbetween Traditional MM and some electronic algo, but very heavily weighted towards traditional side.

compensation is good to say the least.

work is very value added as you either 1) trade or 2) program programs to trade

selectivity is amazingly high. it is very hard to get a interview, much less offer if you're not from MIT. (other top schools are in the maybe section, local schools around chicago have good shots too) or do not have a masters or smth

people: GETCO, JUMP are compsci/math people with more emphasis on Comp sci, OPTIVER DRW are compsci/math/stats people with more emphasis on math/stats

interview questions are basically the same as the culture. compsci questions if ur for GETCO/JUMP/DRW and math across the board.

some personality questions as well.

Do you know if any of these guys hire MBAs or PhDs in Finance?

Some do, but it isn't a requirement.

I've noticed that this site has a bias towards algorithmic and HF trading for valuing prop shops. Places like Getco/Jump/JaneSt like you to have a lot of programming knowledge and the like and it is just completely different from places Optiver/DRW/etc. I wouldn't say compensation is necessarily any better, either, based on alums I've talked to at multiple firms. A friend of mine from school took Optiver over Getco and I met with an alum who is a senior at Jump who said they don't really hire many 'traders' anymore, but mostly comp sci and math majors to program the strategies created by the senior traders in those firms, so things aren't necessarily black and white.

The compensation everywhere depends on how you perform. If you're a baller at any prop you'll get paid just fine and if you suck, you'll be gone. Salaries vary in part due to how early you get your own book--if someone is a TA for 2 years, then they are not going to have a chance to earn big bonuses and are usually offered a higher salary to compensate. There are a lot of props that pay trading within 6mo. It is a different model and not necessarily any better/worse (depends on how you are defining it).

Higher payouts in terms of...? Salary, PnL, what? I had lunch with a partner at one of the firms mentioned in the title and work for another mentioned on the board and everything I've been told and have seen is the same--even at the senior level your pay is predominantly related to your PnL more than anything. Now, you are afforded more (or less) risk depending on where you go, which will affect your possible PnL, but from the people I've spoke with all shops (respectable shops) compensate fairly similar amounts for the PnL generated.

Like I said, I think the bias on the site is more towards the type of trading versus the comp. A partner at one of HFT shops mentioned here told me that while their salaries are well above most others, the bonuses are much more limited in terms of maximum possible. Not coincidentally, this can skew how people view compensation.

At the end of the day, I think they are all great firms that have different cultures and ideas on trading. It would be a great pleasure to work at any of these firms. =)

i know a few ppl at getco with 7 figures total pay.