Interested in CS/math/economics/statistics/finance. I like the ORFE major at P, and economics or applied math in econ track at H. Should grade deflation at P be a concern? Is H really more prestigious, or is there no real difference? Does going to H increase my chances for top MBA programs (particularly HBS)? Where should I go to get best recruiting/connections/rigorous preparation for a future on the Street or in management? Thanks a ton.
| +40 | Wharton Huntsman Program vs Yale vs Dartmouth | 40 | 18h | |
| +32 | Umich Ross vs Rice vs Notre Dame Mendoza | 17 | 17h | |
| St Andrews vs LSE vs Middlebury | 18 | 5h | ||
| +26 | Target School Kids Stop Complaining | 6 | 18h | |
| +25 | Oxbridge or Top 15 US School. | 7 | 8h | |
| +23 | Imperial College Finance Masters' | 5 | 1d | |
| +22 | UCL Vs Warwick Vs Umass Amherst Vs UW Madison Vs UofT for undergrad | 22 | 1h | |
| +20 | LSE BSc Economics vs Cambridge BA Economics | 7 | 10h | |
| +18 | UK/EU MSc's in Finance | 7 | 11h | |
| +17 | Why is Boston College CSOM praised so much here? | 10 | 4d |
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Have you been accepted to both?
Yes, I have been accepted to both.
Harvard and Princeton are widely recognized throughout the world as among the top 10 most prestigious universities on Earth. Harvard isn't materially more prestigious to justify picking them solely for their name. Both have great Wall Street recruiting, both bring with them automatic prestige in any career field, and both institutions will set you apart automatically from most of your competition.
I would pick the school that you like best. That's normally a pretty wrong suggestion when discussing future career prospects, but both universities are so well respected and provide basically the same opportunities that it just doesn't matter.
As an aside, studies have found that students who have been admitted to Ivy League universities who decide to attend their local state university ultimately end up, on average, with the same level of earnings over time. What the studies suggest is that if you are quality enough to get admitted to Princeton and Harvard then you have all the ability in the world to succeed without them. Therefore, selecting between Princeton and Harvard is like selecting between Diet Coke and Diet Pepsi--no substantive difference other than personal preference.
I like the tone of your post but I beg to differ.
If the OP wants to be truly preftigious, he has to get the H. There is no discussion how ridiculously good both H and P are, but no matter what people say H will always be a foot ahead on P - preftige-wise.
I agree that Harvard is the top of the top in terms of prestige, but there is literally nothing you can do professionally on Wall Street out of Harvard that you can't do out of Princeton. Harvard has the highest level of prestige, but going to Princeton is not going to make it even remotely more difficult to get into a top MBA program or to get into a top end medical or law school. There's simply no difference at the undergraduate level. None. Zero.
Agree 100%. Hence, following this educational similarity... take the higher prestige.
Unless you like Princeton better...
You're not going to have any more or any fewer career opportunities out of Harvard compared to Princeton. So it would make sense to pick the school that you like better since you'll probably perform better scholastically at the institution where you're happier.
Harvard has the higher preftige but Princeton has the higher prestige. On the new money scale Princeton has the higher US News overall rank, the stronger engineering program, and the faster growing endowment.
Honestly I don't think it matters. Comparing the two schools based on name brand is like comparing a 1927 Rolls Royce against a 2015 Ferrari based on inflation adjusted MSRP. They are both great cars but one is newer and faster and the other has a better brand name and fits in better with a 100 year old mansion and a chauffeur. And different people will prefer different cars.
Ugh I can't believe I am making this post. Honestly I'd go for the $30k Ducati 1198 and study Engineering at UC Berkeley.
I also don't understand the debate about HBS. If you do well out of Princeton or Harvard undergrad, an MBA won't be necessary. Also everyone knows Stanford GSB is the better MBA program.
Also I don't think DC has a dog in this fight. My understanding is that he did Accy. Full disclosure: I am strongly biased towards Princeton.
Pick the school and the major you like more. If you like ORFE, go to Princeton. If you like Econ, go to Harvard, or maybe choose Princeton. If you're not sure, ask your parents- they're the ones who are paying for it. I have no idea why you would ask WSO.
I would add that I imagine it would be easier to get into HBS for an MBA coming out of Harvard than Princeton. Someone correct me if I'm wrong - but as this was one of OPs questions, I'd say go with Harvard.
There are a couple extremely top-end finance firms/positions that only recruit at Harvard or at Harvard/Wharton. Near impossible to break into from Princeton. Also, Harvard gives an advantage to its undergrad students for Harvard MBA, just look at the statistics. Aside from Harvard MBA, a Princeton student and Harvard student will have the same chances at top MBA programs, assuming the same GPA. However, you must consider that the median Harvard grade is an A- and the mode is an A, whereas Princeton practices grade deflation. Much easier to get a high GPA at Harvard => easier to get accepted into top MBA programs. An average Harvard student (3.7 GPA) will completely destroy an average Princeton student (3.4 GPA) in MBA applications since schools don't really take grade deflation, etc into account.
I'd go with Harvard personally. I've visited both, and may even prefer Princeton's campus, but Harvard is in a much cooler city/area and you can't go wrong attending Harvard. Awesome problem to have OP, congratulations and good luck in deciding.
I'd go Princeton: Its much smaller and tight-knit, which should be an advantage for networking and meeting enough people that when you need one of them one day, you can get 'em, esp. cuz they say high finance is a small world. Obvi Harvard's amazing for networking too but if you gotta make this kind of comparison, Princeton.
Bain Capital, Evercore, Blackstone PE, and Silver Lake only recruit at Harvard and Wharton so you would be missing out on a few opportunities in the finance realm. The bigger different is in the management consulting world where literally every MC firm recruits at Harvard and maybe half of the bigger names recruit at Princeton. I don't believe Deloitte, L.E.K., Parthenon, and Avascent recruit at Princeton for instance off the top of my head.
nope.
Bain Capital, Blackstone PE, Evercore recruits at Stanford and Yale as well (know this for a fact, I have friends at Yale interning there, and heard about similar things at Stanford). Not sure about Princeton.
OT: You're asking this question because you have no obvious preference between Harvard and Princeton. Given this fact, and you do not in fact prefer Princeton due its culture/location etc., choose Harvard - more prestigious, and arguably more opportunities to pursue. (Also grade deflation in Princeton is pretty bad - why intentionally make your undergrad experience more miserable?)
And to those people who say a 3.7 from Princeton is more respected than a 3.7 from Harvard - this is complete BS. NO grad school would take the time to sort out which undergrad institution has grade inflation and which has not -- neither will firms on Wall Street. Too tedious.
Also if you're considering international opportunities, Harvard is by far miles ahead in terms of prestige and respect as compared to Princeton. When I visited India and China, most of them have only heard of Harvard and MIT (and to a lesser extent Yale), but nobody knows Princeton.
No brainer -- Harvard it is.
Full disclosure: I go to MIT, so I may have bias, but I hold my above contentions to be sound and true.
Two issues:
1.) Bain Cap, BX PE, and Evercore all recruit at Princeton 2.) You're an idiot if you think top grad schools don't know about grade deflation. You really think HBS or YLS doesn't know that Princeton actively engages in grade deflation? Or Goldman or McKinsey? These places take dozens and dozens of Princeton kids every single year; they have tons of Princeton Alumni; and they're in constant contact with Princeton career services/grad school advising. OF COURSE they know about P's grade deflation. I agree that they don't give a shit about lower tier schools that have deflation, but the Princeton deflation is widely known/acknowledged.
Oh yeah, prove me wrong then. None of these firms list Princeton on their campus recruiting calendar.
Actually, Evercore, Blackstone, Deloitte had listings for SA and FT this year at Princeton. MBB all came, too.
Do you know what the track record is for BX?
http://www.evercore.com/careers/Intern-Analyst-Associates/united-states…
pretty sure I see something called "Princeton" on there
I'd choose Harvard because Boston (for me) would be more enjoyable than suburban New Jersey.
Problems i would love to have.
Considering the average GPA I would choose Harvard though.
Princeton grade deflation was instituted a while back and I'm sure is well known by all top recruiters and grad schools by now. If they're not retarded, I am in fact confident that it would be taken into account. Also, Princeton very actively advertises its grade deflation in its quest to increase academic rigor; what school would try to sabotage its own students? A 3.7 from Princeton will be respected in a way a 3.7 from Harvard will not be.
if you can't decide on #1 2. Harvard is slightly better and has a much wider alumni network 3. Princeton is more tight knit if you like that. mainly undergrads, no mba or many masters 4. Location...boston vs suburban new jersey
honestly #1 is the biggest. location and tightknit will be influences on #1.
Most of the debating in this thread is absolutely retarded. They are both easily top 5 best schools in world. Your "exit opps" from college will be fantastic at either. Pick the school you like more, it is that simple.
They are both fairly different places, so I would think about which campus community and culture you can see yourself fitting into better.
Harvard gets more students into HBS than Princeton, although I believe Harvard's undergraduate class size is 25% larger than Princeton's. Not sure who has the edge on a per capita basis but my guess is it's still Harvard. I don't think that's a very good reason to pick an undergraduate school, especially when you are comparing schools this close in rank/prestige. And if you are a senior in high school, which you must be based on your question, then you don't and won't for some time know if you'll even want to go to business school period.
There are also a handful of firms that, as stated above, recruit only at Harvard, and sometimes H/W, but not Princeton. This is a slightly better reason to pick one over the other. As far as I'm aware, Deloitte and LEK recruit at Princeton. But are you really going to make a college decision based on whether or not you can get a job at Deloitte?
Otherwise, you have almost identical options coming out of each. Harvard has a larger network, while Princeton's is smaller but tighter-knit. I also believe Harvard has a stronger name abroad, although they are comparable in the US with Harvard being slightly stronger.
When I considered both schools, the choice was a no-brainer based on what I was looking for in a college experience. And that choice was based on none of the above criteria. Feel free to PM me if you want more thoughts.
i would say, forget about gpa statistics or whatever. both schools have great opportunities
go where you think you think you will succeed, grow, learn the most (environment plays a big role)... this is important because if you are mediocre your opportunities may be corresponding mediocre, regardless of the school name.
It's comical that a HSer with the intelligence to get into HP can't search and it's even more comical that people are debating prestige diff btwn H and P.
No one gives a shit about prestige after your 1st job and if you're concerned with your prestige level then you have more problems than getting into B school. Top B schools are littered with people who are rebranding BC they went to a crappy undergraduate so any Ivy League undergrad will do well in admissions with comparable stats; hell, 1# reason to go to B school is to rebrand and that's exactly why the UoMich, UVA, and the like dominate pops at top B schools.
Princeton has those cool steam tunnels you can break into. Harvard has nothing to compare to this. Problem solved.
I think any difference in name recognition is marginal at best.
ORFE may be one of the most versatile degrees there is. It allows you to be a programmer at Google, a banker at MS, a trader at GS, a quant at JPM, a researcher at the Fed, a strategist at DE Shaw, corporate strategy/logistics at any airline or railroad, an engineering PhD at MIT, or an Econ PhD at Chicago.
They're both good schools and you might have a good point on name brand for Econ vs. Econ, but for ORFE vs Econ, ORFE opens more doors and cancels out any small differences in "preftige". Princeton has gotten ahead over the past 30 years by specializing in these difficult majors that not everyone- even at Princeton or Harvard- can do, but offer better careers.
Finally, this is more like comparing Oxford and Cambridge. Oxford may have more name recognition, but it's hard to mention one without mentioning the other.
I graduated from Princeton undergrad in 1991. As I read these posts I have to wonder if any of the submitters actually went to H or P. The argumentation seems to be either inane or at best unsubstantiated. As a Princeton graduate, I will state what everybody knows. Harvard is and will always be the most prestigious school in the US, just as Oxford in the UK.
However, I will also say that which most of us in the club, so to speak, also understand: Although the most prestigious, Harvard is generally not the best school for undergraduates, and that if I'm interviewing someone who went to Harvard, I have to ask them more questions to get a handle on their work ethic and the development of their critical faculties in ways I don't have to ask graduates from, say, Princeton or Chicago. Grade inflation at Harvard is also a severe strike against them. A 3.7 or 3.9 GPA from Harvard is simply not a useful metric. It's a bit like the emperor's new clothes,
All that being said, a decision between Princeton and Harvard is like a decision between Bach and Mozart. I don't think in the end it will be the university which matters, but the integrity, work ethic, and intellectual curiosity of the person. All the best.
You are splitting hairs. Plain and simple. Remember that at the end of the day what matters is that you take it seriously and develop yourself while at said school rather than let the 'brand' carry you. What environment will encourage you to succeed to the highest level irrespective of what comes next. I think that fit is one of the most important aspects of where you go to college. If you feel comfortable and it suits you I think you will excel better than choosing something based on the prestige or worries about grade deflation. Throw prestige out, frankly, because it creates a lot more noise than you need right now.
I'll give you my advice. Don't make a choice based on what you perceive popular consensus to be. Don't fear that people will be like 'oh, why didn't you go Harvard bro? They are all time prestige'. Do what is right for you and then call it a day. I'll reiterate that what I think matters the most is ensuring that you pick the place that you feel most at home and prepared to kill it for four years to maximize your opportunities down the road. Rigorous preparations comes from you pushing yourself and both of those places will give you that chance. I guarantee that if you truly work your ass off and separate yourself from the pack, Connections/MBA/Whatever will follow.
Harvard vs Princeton for Undergrad (Originally Posted: 04/13/2014)
Interested in CS/math/economics/statistics/finance. I like the ORFE major at P, and economics or applied math in econ track at H. Should grade deflation at P be a concern? Is H really more prestigious, or is there no real difference? Does going to H increase my chances for top MBA programs (particularly HBS)? Where should I go to get best recruiting/connections/rigorous preparation for a future on the Street or in management? Thanks a ton.
Harvard is slightly more prestigious. Grade deflation at Princeton is a concern (GPA difference between the 2 schools is HUGE, Harvard's mode for grades is an A and its median is an A-). Yes, going to Harvard increases chances for HBS (but not for other business schools). Harvard also gets on-campus recruiting from a couple of the top private equity firms in which Princeton does not, whereas I don't think there's any case that's true vice-versa
Something a little different to think about though is that by going to a different school for your MBA you gain access to a whole different alumni network.
.
Motherfuckers tryin' to find me.
By the way, the fact that you're considering MBA placement when you're still in high school is laughable. Do well in college wherever you go and let the rest figure itself out. Both universities you got into are very prestigious and choose the one you like better. If you do well at either, you'll get a bevy of opportunities. If you don't do well at either school (below the top 1/3rd), it will be hard to get the exit opps that you're already thinking about.
Seriously though, don't attend a university because you want to go to HBS. I think it's ridiculous considering you don't know if you're even going to need to or should go to HBS.
Both are fantastic. I'm not really sure anybody will be able to convince you which one is better suited towards you, personally. For me, I would choose Harvard, but it has probably nothing to do with you. The difference between them is marginal, and, as others here have already stated, I would encourage you to go where you think you would be happiest.
No real difference here. You can do fine at either.
No offense to any who have posted here, but I find it amusing that people are humoring this question responses like "you can succeed at either Harvard or Princeton. Can't go wrong."
I'm sure OP is heaving a big sigh of relief that his future isn't doomed.
Harvard sucks. Princeton doesn't matter.
This is probably the best situation any college applicant can hope for. I would definitely go with the school where OP is most comfortable with.
Princeton. Reunions is a top notch party.
Harvard if anything because you will have more to do in Boston than in middle of nowhere NJ. Also Harvard gives you the chance to take classes at MIT if you feel the classes are not up to your rigor...MIT will help solve that. Prestige goes to Harvard (slightly).
Good luck.
Gopal went to Princeton so that's definitely your best bet.
I go to a HYP, and had a choice between the three when I was a high school senior. Here are my thoughts on H vs P:
1) Grades: You will, on average, have a higher GPA at Harvard than Princeton. There's no getting around that. On the other hand, having a high GPA at H (3.7+) is not really impressive to employers or grad schools, whereas I know that a 3.7+ at P is well regarded. In addition, grade deflation is probably going to be phased out at P in the next couple of years, so that's also something to keep in mind.
2) Prestige: negligible difference (if any) between the two. Some argue that Harvard is Harvard, and that it’s the greatest school in the world and no other school can top it. Others say that P is clearly the best undergraduate institution in the world, and no school—not even Harvard—can rival its prestige. This is backed up by US News (as arbitrary as those rankings are)—Princeton has been #1 for 8/10 years, whereas Harvard has only been #1 5 times. This year, the rankings go: 1.) Princeton, 2.) Harvard, 3.) Yale.
3) Educational experience: Harvard is undoubtedly less focused on undergrads. Basic example: Mankiw rarely teaches a full complement of ec 10 (i.e. often taught by people not named Mankiw) whereas at Princeton, Rosen or Blinder not only teach every lecture in eco 100/101, they also teach small sections of 10-15 kids. That’s on par for Princeton—much easier access to Professors, much less focus on grad schools/students, and a generally more focused undergrad environment. Money is also very easily available for internships, research grants, thesis research, etc. Per capita, Princeton’s endowment is far higher than any other college in the world, making it easy for undergrads to conduct research or travel or whatever. On the other hand, Harvard’s fantastic grad schools provide great research opportunities for undergrads in every field imaginable—and all of those grad schools are either the best or among the best in the world.
4) Finance and recruiting: I’d give the edge to Harvard here, but again, only very slightly. Every major firm—GS, MS, JPM, Lazard, Evercore, etc—recruits at both schools. Two major exceptions: Blackstone M&A/R&R recruits at H but not at P; and Greenhill recruits at H and not at P. Otherwise, all are the same—BX PE and Bain Cap recruits at both, as do all the MBB and boutiques of note. Honestly, recruiting differences between the two are negligible. You can pretty much go anywhere from these two schools—they’re the best in the world.
5.) Alumni – I only include this because Princeton alumni are insanely in love with their school and generally do anything they can to help out fellow Princetonian’s. Pretty sure alumni donation rate at P is the highest in the country, and reunions is evidence of that—25K people of all ages come to P at the end of the year and basically party for three days. Largest order of alcohol at any event in the United States. H alumni are proud of their school, but apart from Dartmouth, no Ivy League school comes close to the fervor/love P’s alumni have for their school.
Overall? You can’t go wrong. Princeton is more suburban, much more focused on undergrads, and has a smaller class. Harvard is in a major city, much larger, and has easier access to research and grad schools. Both have fantastically talented undergrads and Professors; both have tons of resources. Both will give you the chance to go anywhere you want in finance. Both send tons and tons of people to the best MBA (and for that matter, grad) programs in the country. There is no difference in prestige—both are, along with Yale, the best schools in the country. Pick whichever one you like more. You can’t go wrong. Good job, and good luck.
a wise man on here once said "the harvard guys got mad swagger". This should answer all of your questions.
I would say Harvard for Econ or Math Princeton for CS Keep in mind that Princeton requires all students to do a senior thesis. A senior thesis at Harvard is optional for most majors (or concentrations as we call them) Grade deflation exists at Princeton, whereas there is some grade inflation at Harvard (mostly in liberal arts/humanities courses, math and science are a different story)
Wharton Undergrad over both
God I wish Brady was here...this thread would have gone to a whole 'nother level.
Which campus did you feel most at-home at? It sounds like a stupid, somewhat intrinsic way of choosing but will probably make you the most successful in the long run.
You are really splitting hairs either way between H and P, so no matter what your decision I cannot see you looking back in 5-10-15 years and having regrets either way.
Both will give you a great education, provide you with incredible job opportunities, and shield you from any contact with the huddled masses that make up the 99%.
Posted this elsewhere, repasting here:
I go to a HYP, and had a choice between the three when I was a high school senior. Here are my thoughts on H vs P:
1) Grades: You will, on average, have a higher GPA at Harvard than Princeton. There's no getting around that. On the other hand, having a high GPA at H (3.7+) is not really impressive to employers or grad schools, whereas I know that a 3.7+ at P is well regarded. In addition, grade deflation is probably going to be phased out at P in the next couple of years, so that's also something to keep in mind.
2) Prestige: negligible difference (if any) between the two. Some argue that Harvard is Harvard, and that it’s the greatest school in the world and no other school can top it. Others say that P is clearly the best undergraduate institution in the world, and no school—not even Harvard—can rival its prestige. This is backed up by US News (as arbitrary as those rankings are)—Princeton has been #1 for 8/10 years, whereas Harvard has only been #1 5 times. This year, the rankings go: 1.) Princeton, 2.) Harvard, 3.) Yale.
3) Educational experience: Harvard is undoubtedly less focused on undergrads. Basic example: Mankiw rarely teaches a full complement of ec 10 (i.e. often taught by people not named Mankiw) whereas at Princeton, Rosen or Blinder not only teach every lecture in eco 100/101, they also teach small sections of 10-15 kids. That’s on par for Princeton—much easier access to Professors, much less focus on grad schools/students, and a generally more focused undergrad environment. Money is also very easily available for internships, research grants, thesis research, etc. Per capita, Princeton’s endowment is far higher than any other college in the world, making it easy for undergrads to conduct research or travel or whatever. On the other hand, Harvard’s fantastic grad schools provide great research opportunities for undergrads in every field imaginable—and all of those grad schools are either the best or among the best in the world.
4) Finance and recruiting: I’d give the edge to Harvard here, but again, only very slightly. Every major firm—GS, MS, JPM, Lazard, Evercore, etc—recruits at both schools. Two major exceptions: Blackstone M&A/R&R recruits at H but not at P; and Greenhill recruits at H and not at P. Otherwise, all are the same—BX PE and Bain Cap recruits at both, as do all the MBB and boutiques of note. Honestly, recruiting differences between the two are negligible. You can pretty much go anywhere from these two schools—they’re the best in the world.
5.) Alumni – I only include this because Princeton alumni are insanely in love with their school and generally do anything they can to help out fellow Princetonian’s. Pretty sure alumni donation rate at P is the highest in the country, and reunions is evidence of that—25K people of all ages come to P at the end of the year and basically party for three days. Largest order of alcohol at any event in the United States. H alumni are proud of their school, but apart from Dartmouth, no Ivy League school comes close to the fervor/love P’s alumni have for their school.
Overall? You can’t go wrong. Princeton is more suburban, much more focused on undergrads, and has a smaller class. Harvard is in a major city, much larger, and has easier access to research and grad schools. Both have fantastically talented undergrads and Professors; both have tons of resources. Both will give you the chance to go anywhere you want in finance. Both send tons and tons of people to the best MBA (and for that matter, grad) programs in the country. There is no difference in prestige—both are, along with Yale, the best schools in the country. Pick whichever one you like more. You can’t go wrong. Good job, and good luck.
If this is true, take Princeton. Alumni fighting for you is literally the best thing for your career
Seconded- can't say I know what the H network is like and I imagine that there is a ton of enthusiasm for them, but P alumni will fight for you like you're the best applicant out there.
I'd pick Harvard because you get to have conversations in local bars about the economic modalities of the Southern colonies prior to the American Revolution.
Jokes aside, actually go visit the two schools for a day or two. Talk to the professors and sit in on a couple of classes you're interested in to gauge if either one is the right place for you. Congratulations on being admitted to both, you'll have tremendous opportunities regardless of which one you pick.
I don't even know what a modality is lol...and I hate apples.
Was waiting for a reference. Glad not to be disappointed.
Go to Princeton if you want the better undergraduate education; go to Harvard if you want more prestige.
The only thing more pretentious than the original question? The responses....
The starting letters of Princeton spell P-R-I-N-C-E. Problem solved.
Ok, so now the comments have shifted completely the other way. I need to add some fair balance.
Why go to Princeton:
-We have a badass engineering program and ORFE is a badass major. Not all schools have the stats departments to teach it. Harvard would, but they do not offer ORFE as a major. -We have the bigger endowment. -We have the higher US News rank. -Successful people like Blinder, Brunnermeier, Hong, Kuenne, and Janeway all teach undergrad courses.
Why not go to Princeton:
-We're a tough school. A 3.5 GPA at Princeton has to be earned. Hell, a B is still something you have to earn in most classes (especially the ones taught by Frenchies and Germans) -Engineering, CS, ORFE, etc is a tough major here. Econ is a little bit easier, but only marginally. This is not some state school where Engineers take business courses for easy As, and Engineering is as difficult here as it is anywhere. It is certainly more difficult than Harvard. -We are in the middle of nowhere. There are ~5 nice restaurants in Princeton and they shut down at 10 PM. NYC is a 90 minute train ride away, but that's tough to make an evening of. -The undergrads don't do much research. At least that is my impression. Grad students I've met from Harvard say nearly everyone on campus at H is doing something. -There is a senior thesis and junior independent work. As mentioned, this is non-trivial. -Princeton operates in a bubble. If you are from a rich family, living in downtown Boston will be ever so slightly better at waking you up to the realities of life. Studying CS at Berkeley will introduce you to middle-class kids and middle-class living a whole lot better than either school will.
-You will want a car if you go to school here. -There may be some more name recognition associated with Harvard. (Again, the analogue is Oxford vs. Cambridge)
I still think Princeton wins on balance, but it's marginal and there are a lot of different things that can change the decision. That said, I don't think it's worth agonizing over, either. If P turns out to be the better choice, H gets you at least 95% of P; if H is better, P gives you 95% of H.
So do what many of us suspect the Harvard and Princeton admissions departments do when they've gotten to the top 20% of the admissions pool; if you can't decide, just flip a coin and know that you can't go wrong either way.
Only on a per student basis, but looking at it that way, Pomona College has a bigger endowment than Stanford and MIT. On an absolute basis Harvard is famous for its endowment, not only for the size but also the fund in which it's managed.
Prestige-wise, Harvard trumps Princeton in mainstream circles, and especially abroad. Princeton is significantly stronger academically, especially at the undergrad level, and is significantly more respected in academic circles. For a career on the Street I'd choose Harvard, though certainly no adcom or anyone would see you as any worse. If anything Harvard may have the larger network, though 3/4 of the students there aren't undergrads, which is the opposite of Princeton
Thanks for all the informative replies. Some info about my background: my parents and I are immigrants from an underdeveloped country, and they have been hauling ass to support me because they believe in me. They have never had education or money in their lives, but they are some of the most respectable people I have ever known. To be honest, the specifics of the school's party scene or the entertainment opportunities the school affords are of little importance to me, as I am humble and not demanding of a certain kind of atmosphere. I simply want to go to the place that will best give me the knowledge, reputation, connections and whatever else I need to give my parents an optimal return on their investment.
There are a lot of synergies for a rich kid to study Econ, and it's a moderately easier degree even at Princeton, but that doesn't sound like you.
Work hard, but make some friends in the process.
Engineering ultimately offers more security on the downside than Econ does, while offering the same upside, IMHO. After a childhood like yours', you deserve financial security and an ORFE degree will help you sleep a little bit better at night your first couple years out of school.
Go to Princeton, study ORFE or maybe CS, and get a 3.5. Your family isn't used to having stuff handed to you and that makes you a really good fit for being a Princeton Engineer. Princeton isn't as bad as MIT, but it's as tough as any other school for Engineering. You're a tough, hard-working person; I think you'll do better here in ORFE than you would do in Econ (either at Princeton or Harvard).
If you want to go to the school where you'd be more likely to be satisfied enough to want to donate and give back to, it's Princeton:
http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/ar…
Princeton's usually ranked 1 or 2 in terms of highest alumni donation rates. It's because, as others mentioned, Princeton alumni love their alma mater.
OP, all of the stuff on this board that says "one is better than the other" is utterly ridiculous. Both schools are really, really good and if you do well at either you'll get opportunities everywhere. Visit both, talk to your parents, and get a sense of which place you like better. Don't focus your next four years of recruiting when both offer elite recruiting. I could understand if you were debating between a really academically tough target and an easier semi-target, but that isn't the case here. No one is going to bash you for going to Princeton, rather than Harvard. Good Luck.
harvard
/thread
Again, it really doesn't matter.
I say go to Berkeley and ask your parents for the $100K savings. Someone who gets into Princeton but goes to Berkeley is as good as a Princeton graduate (some might argue even better as a CS major) but has an extra $100K in the bank.
I say we close this thread and stop arguing about this. OP got into Harvard and Princeton, he is smart enough to make his own mind up without asking WSO... or QuantNet.
there wouldn't be any 100k savings because based on his background he'll be going to either for close to free. not sure why you say this stuff in every thread. on average, state schools are actually more expensive.
anyway, this has been argued to death both here and elsewhere on the forums, so I'm not gonna re-hash a lot of what's already been said, but a few additional points:
1) people saying a 3.7 from Princeton is better/whatever than the equivalent from Harvard are completely wrong, especially as far as employers and professional school (law, business) admissions are concerned. no one cares, and schools absolutely do things that have negative impacts on their own students. it would be marginally easier to get a higher GPA at Harvard on average but the difference is wildly exaggerated, mostly by people who didn't attend either college, and not really important.
2) it's worth noting that being in Boston will give you the opportunity to network with and even intern at cool places during semesters if you want to (Blackstone, for example, has a term-time M&A internship in their Boston office; there are lots of other banks, startups and biotech companies, consulting firms, venture capital firms, etc. in the area too), which you don't get at all with Princeton.
3) on the subject of alumni, whether or not Princeton alums are more tight-knit or loyal or whatever is subjective and up for debate, but Harvard has a key advantage (Stanford does too) in that you get to meet and actually take classes with students at HBS, HLS, even the med school. it's not especially healthy to think of it like this, but many of those people will actually prove to be extremely useful contacts in the future. beyond the students, you will also have access to events, professors, etc. at HBS and HLS and other grad schools. lots of alumni from HBS and HLS are also very receptive to Harvard College students/alumni reaching out (most of them generally just consider themselves Harvard alums) -- this is actually pretty important going forward, even if it doesn't seem like it now. particularly if you're interested in banking, PE, VC, HF, consulting, etc. where HBS alums dominate.
Princeton is a 90 minute ride from NYC. A visit to the city has to be intentional, but you can't beat that geography for networking in finance if that's what OP wants to do.
Given the two choices, Princeton ORFE probably gives OP the most options and may be the best fit. But I honestly think CS at Berkeley should still be under consideration. In many ways it's an excellent cultural fit (I say that as a state school undergrad) and if he wants to go to Silicon Valley, OP will probably do better there than at any private school. The savings on cost of living at a private school would easily cover in-state tuition.
Princeton has an MFin program that actually places better than HBS on the buyside and in many parts of banking. Of course you also have ORFE and Econ PhDs, many of whom come in with prior finance industry experience. As an undergrad, you'll take classes with the graduate students and make friends with many of them. Harvard may give you access to more people, but Princeton is a smaller, tighter-knit community.Harvard
i honestly feel like the harvard name might open more doors you should just pick whichever school you like more though
It's just splitting hairs. Which location do you like better? Which culture?
I have a lot of classmates from HYP and I would say the Princeton "pride"/knit is super high. I can see P alums fighting for each other, even strangers. Not as much from H&Y.
In terms of grade deflation, I'm in a grad program (not business related) and graduated from a top ranked undergrad with known grade deflation. During my grad interviews, one prof specifically said "Wow, you have a X.XX from school? That's very impressive." So while most grad schools probably don't take grade inflation into account for EVERY school, I'd guess that they'd take the 2 seconds to learn about it for something at the tier of Princeton. In contrast, I've seen people consider 3.5s at Harvard "average".
That said, Princeton is in the middle of nowhere and Cambridge is an awesome place to live and learn to be an adult.
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