Thought it would be nice to have a refresh of the latest BB rankings based on everyone's perception and exits to the buyside. Note that this is slightly biased based on personal interactions with the banks on different processes, and that each bank has their own unique strengths and weaknesses. But here is what I think as far as reputation.
Tier 1: GS / MS
Tier 1.5: JPM Tier 2: BAML / Citi / CS / Barclays
Tier 3: UBS / DB
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| +128 | UBS IB Americas has failed, now behind Santander and Stiffel | 34 | 11h |
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| +65 | How do I understand vs. just memorizing? | 11 | 1d |
| +57 | Some banks are overrated as fuck | 17 | 1h |
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Tier 1: GS / MS Tier 1.5: JPM Tier 2: BAC / Citi Tier 2.5: BARC Tier 3: CS / UBS Tier Not a BB: DB
UBS is not BB either
swap UBS and DB, DB is still top 5 in certain verticals/products but UBS is definitely not
Generally would agree. Some groups at lower tiered shops can directly compete with the top as well. E.g. CS Lev Fin
No one: Random intern: hey guys so here’s my thoughts on bank rankings
There's another recent thread with accurate and up to date 2020 rankings but since there's misinformation or low effort rank trolling here thus far, I'll paste it over:
Tier 1: GS/MS/JPM Tier 2: BAML Tier 3: Citi/CS Tier 4: Barclays/RBC Tier 5: DB/UBS (these hardly count at this point, perhaps top groups at DB, but nothing positive to say for UBS her)
RBC is not a BB
Ridiculous ranking, CS is way too high and Barclays is too low
It's really not and no one who works in the industry outside of RBC believes it is.
Don't get me wrong it's a solid bank with strong upward momentum and a couple bright spots in the US but that alone doesn't make it a BB. You need presence globally (not just US and Canada), a broad capital markets franchise to back it up as well relationships across the largest companies across most sectors. On latter point, RBC is more mid-market.
I know a lot of this is semantics but I would say DB and UBS aren't in the BB camp anymore even though DB still has some very solid groups in Europe and I believe Asia as well.
CS has elite exit opps. They should be in Tier 2. Barclays is way better than RBC. DB is also better from an exits perspective. RBC is not a Bulge Bracket. Analyst 2 in IB either works at RBC or does not work in IB or he / she would know that league tables are misleading when it comes to BBs. Many just get put on a deal for financing. It may say they were on it for M&A but in reality, it's not the case.
Sorry but this ranking is awful. Who would take CS over Citi or RBC over Barclays?
RBC is not a BB and even if it were, it's not on the same level as Barclays.......
But why so many people say they will pick rbc over db?
T1. GS/MS/JPM
T2. BAML/Citi
T3. Barclays
T4. CS/RBC
T5. DB
T6. UBS
Probably most accurate as of 2020 within the United States.
Agreed, this is very accurate. Personally, if I was deciding between offers, I'd put RBC a notch below CS and Barclays with T2.
For offers I definitely agree but I sort of discounted CS for being european and focusing away from their IBD.
Firms ranked by 2019 revenue: don't MS since this is literally objective
UBS or jefferies is probably ranked 11
Ranking strictly by revenue is not a very good metric. Although I appreciate the effort to be objective.
its not a ranking but provides valuable context.
This is factual so why hit him with the MS.
At my target kids generally take GS>MS/JPM>BAML>Citi/Barclays>CS>RBC>other firms which correlates well to revenue.
Right because you seriously believe kids will pick Wells and DB over RBC or Jefferies. When you see that UBS is right at those levels too you understand that revenue is a weak metric as it doesn't account for headcount, banks that just capital raise off of their BS, growth, etc.
This includes all banking products and is not on an M&A basis, hence is skewed and includes banks that shouldn't be in the top 10
IMO its fair to compare BB to BB across all products...GS and Barclays for example do not even have M&A groups, so you're probably going to have some exposure to capital markets as an IB analyst.
If we want to compare BB to EB or EB to EB, then yeah it does make sense to isolate for M&A.
I'm curious as to which firms you think "shouldn't be" in the top 10 since it includes every BB, and as far as I can tell, this thread is a BB ranking.
Is RBC considered bulge bracket now?!
Outside of the US, no way RBC is higher than UBS and DB.
Yeah, but within the US I don't think UBS or DB are BB anymore. EMEA and APAC? Absolutely.
When I was recruiting at my target, the general preference was Morgan Stanley / Goldman Sachs, followed by EBs like Evercore, then JP Morgan
Why is everyone on this forum so obsessed with RBC? Most of these posts talk about them like they're the top bank. Stop spreading misinformation. Most people on Wall Street do not consider them a BB. It's not a bad place to be and certainly growing, but your M&A experience will be limited to financing roles. No one hires RBC for strategic advice...
They don't solely do financing for M&A at all. I'm sorry you didn't get an offer, but a spot no one was talking about 5 years ago has made the top 10 league tables for every single past year, in just the last year was a sole advisor to the largest bank merger since the crisis and then went on to be on the largest $100B+ deal of the year, top groups hold comp in-line with top EBs (170k all-in AN1 top bucket M&A), strong BS, and a very strong culture. Growth and recent recruiting has been aggressive for this very reason.
You definitely work at RBC or wouldn't passionately be defending them. I'm glad you are doing a ton of M&A and making such great comp and getting such great exits that you have to defend them on WSO!
Coming over from the EB rankings thread. We need a BB/EB cumulative ranking to piss even more people off.
Lol once these kids do summer internships, they'll realize that anyone from any of the BBs and EBs, regardless of "tiers," can have any exit. At that point, it just depends on their undergrad school, GPA, connections, deal experience (luck) and most important, intelligence
Wow, is that really true? This website has jammed into my brain that if you're not coming frop the top 5 BBs or top 7 EBs exiting to a megafund or any PE is basically over. I need a reality check and to do more research.
Credit Suisse should be higher T1. GS/MS/JPM T2. BAML/CS T3. Barclays/Citi T4a: DB T4b. RBC/UBS Probably going to get monkey sh** because this forum loves RBC for some reason, but this subjective (and useless) ranking is the most accurate...
You clearly work at UBS lol. I'm sorry. You go around telling people a place is overhyped because professionals are ranking them favorably? Cmon you know better.
Oh sorry, let me put RBC in T1 so you can sleep at night
on average, Barclays and Citi are better than CS but CS does have a couple of extremely good groups for exits
Don't see CS being this high but otherwise accurate.
T1. GS/MS/JPM
T1.5. BAML
T2. Barclays
T2.5. CS
T3. DB/RBC
T4. UBS
Accurate, but you forgot Citi. I'd put it either T1.5 or T2.
Tier 1 - BB: GS/MS - EB: EVR/PJT
Tier 2 - BB: JPM - EB: Moelis/Lazard
Tier 3 - BB: BAML/Citi/Barclays/CS - EB: Centerview/PWP
Honorable Mentions: Guggenheim (future EB?) and RBC (future BB?)
Haha this ranking will get extra monkey sh** because it doesn't say RBC is a surefire BB. However, I would say that these days, Guggenheim is unquestionably an EB, along with Greenhill (legacy name). Also, I'd say Qatalyst is an EB because it's so prolific in tech
Curious why you put Moelis above Centerview. Is it because of the length of the program and exits to PE?
cvp is a 3 year program
3 year program and I've always felt that Moelis a bit more well regarded. That said, I'd take Centerview over Moelis, personally. Culture is >>
Better not tell the multiple GS / Moelis / Lazard bankers that always try to lateral to CVP every class that they are going to a tier 3 shop!
Do you think CVP is better than Moelis culture wise?
If I was at Moelis/Lazard then I'd also want to lateral to CVP, especially if I want Consumer.
This is most accurate in my opinion, RBC is getting way too much credit by other users. RBC is a top MM bank. Also weren't they just giving out well below street bonus's? I will try to find the WSO post that hinted at that for refernece.
Don't try to play off your own ignorance as people giving "too much credit." Also the bonus thing you're referring to was in London. In NA, it's literally the opposite with top buckets having comp in line with top EBs.
Agreed. Because this forum is full of insecure RBC employees who can't get over the fact that their bank isn't a BB. RBC is hired for financing capabilities, not for strategic advisory
Dude centerview is tier 3? you must be dumb as hell
Every dumb ranking thread always ends up with a handful of people passionately defending RBC. RBC is a very solid bank, there's no need for analysts who work there to fight with sophomores about where it ranks.
DB > RBC > UBS imo
Nothing I love more than a bunch of interns, prospects, and incoming analysts arguing imaginary “rankings”. What a fantastic exercise
This is the initiation process for wso
Can we just hive off a part of WSO for every Prospect to wank off about rankings? Like one of wankfests appears every quarter and we all know it very quickly degrades into infantile arguments.
I also don't see the point of getting heated about rankings. However, I don't think there's anything wrong with having discussions and posts like these.
WSO is all inclusive, so interns, prospects, and incoming analysts like us can talk about anything and everything, and like you all know, rankings are very popular on WSO.
I find it even more childish when seniors put in the extra effort to bash younger people on here (I'm not saying you are) simply for ranking banks. Yea, we know that in the end rankings don't matter and we don't know anything. That's what the forums are for, to learn and gain insight from others in finance. Don't expect a college kid to be as enlightened and knowledgable about the street as you. They are ignorant because that's how it's supposed to be. Then again, I'm sure one they get to your shoes, they'll repeat the cycle.
Rankings matter for exit ops etc. Usually the people bashing are the ones at low tier banks lol.
You just admitted rankings are meaningless and you guys don’t know what you’re talking about... but then you said these “rankings” debates are valuable because you learn from each other’s insights. That makes no sense. Swapping ignorance about a topic that carries no weight is never a valuable use of time.
Also, you’d be shocked to see stats from headhunters about which banks (and groups) have the best PE placement in on-cycle recruiting each year. All I’ll say is it is almost never in line with these “rankings” lol.
I’m not saying DB carries the same weight as GS. But I am hoping that you guys won’t stress yourselves out about this crap and can find some relief in the fact that top performers, regardless of your bank, get spots at MF.
What is the reputation of Lazard these days? From what is seen in these rankings, it seems to be considered as below Evercore / PJT whereas in some other threads it is considered to be a Tier 1 EB...
What about moco?
How about in the UK?
I think of Lazard as a tier 1, but slightly below PJT / Evercore solely because its culture is more unpleasant. Same applies for Moelis, although exit opps are pretty much negligible between the four.
How's Moelis's culture compared to the above three?
Can someone do the rankings of the non top BBs or EBs. I'm talking about Jefferies, William Blair, HL, Nomura, HSBC, WF, BMO, Mizuho, etc. Feel like no one really discusses these at all.
db/Jeff/blair/hl/hw/wf etc > ubs bmo etc > nomura mizuho hsbc etc
Why do people still refer Bank of America as BAML? As far as I am concerned, Bank of America phased out the Merill Lynch brand over a year ago.
They want to feel special
Merill Lynch still has a relativity strong legacy brand relative to the likes of BofA.
BAML has a better ring to it than BofA imo
I can’t believe people are suggesting DB is better than RBC. That is completely inaccurate. RBC has much higher deal flow and a stronger culture.
Any rankings for other regions? EMEA and APAC?
Link to the EMEA ranking thread here: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/investment-banking-in-london-eme…
Based on that thread, the ranking is as follows: 1. GS / MS 2. Lazard / Rothschild 3. JPM 4. BAML / Citi
Feel free to add your thoughts.
unOFFICIAL RANKINGS
Nobody in the industry calls RBC a BB.
Agreed. Only on WSO because a bunch of insecure employees have nothing better to do
Do people in the industry call DB a BB then?
Lol same guy different accounts. Anyone can change their rank to 'director' on anonymous. Especially seeing this person is not even verified which is super easy to do at that level. Lmao just give it up man, network harder, study, and work on improving yourself and maybe you can lateral.
Agreed.
Generally, in EMEA, GS / MS are considered to be number 1, followed by top EB's such as Lazard / Rothschild.
In APAC, the rankings are slightly different, although GS / MS still dominates, banks such as UBS / Citi also perform quite well.
Why
Why does JPM have irregular rankings between tier 1 / tier 1.5 and tier 2?
Bloomberg M&A Rankings 2018:
Keep in mind, ranking varies from group to group. EB's will have top groups like EVR M&A and Qatalyst in TMT that are year after year in the Top 10 in their respective industries. I would suggest looking into what product group you are interested in before trying to rank firms.
Pretty sure GS has been ahead of MS most years in M&A in the US/Globally including 2019.
why would you send 2018 when its 2020?
2019 M&A rankings are listed below...2018 was known to be an anomaly in terms of which firms were ranked high.
1 Goldman Sachs & Co
2 JP Morgan
3 Morgan Stanley
4 Bofa Securities Inc
5 Citi
6 Lazard
7 Barclays
8 Evercore Partners
9 Credit Suisse
10 Rothschild & Co
Generally, in M&A, GS and MS always ranks as #1 and #2 with the most high profile mandates. In ECM and IPOs, MS is usually #1.
From a growth standpoint:
Tier 1a: RBC/GS Tier 1b: JPM/MS Tier 2 : Barclays/BAML Tier 3: Citi/CS Tier 4: WF/HL Tier 5: DB/UBS
this is getting out of hand
from a GROWTH standpoint. One can look at recent deals (BB&T/SunTrust merger) to see that RBC is getting stronger and stronger deals. Same for GS which is the top bank in the industry. On the flip side DB and UBS have not been growing their IBD business. If anything, deal flow is weakening in those groups.
Wtf is from a growth standpoint. Please stop this RBC nonsense. The bank is not a BB. Yes, their revenues in North America is huge, yes, they are ranked in Top 10 in M&A last year.
But any good analyst can take a look and deduce that the North American market makes up over 90% of their M&A deal value. They barely have a presence in EMEA, APAC which is important to be considered as a global investment bank, much less a BB.
I get that ppl bashing RBC makes you unhappy, but they are expanding significantly in markets outside of their core expertise. So who knows? Maybe further down the line, they will be universally recognised as a BB, but for now, no.
see my response above
Look, I worked with RBC analysts who lateralled to my EB. They are hands down some of the best analysts I have ever worked with.
Keep in mind that these rankings do not say anything about the quality of the juniors at the firm, if you are good, you will be able to lateral to another firm or exit to a decent MM PE. But it is non-sensical to call RBC a BB.
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