Is Being A Working Woman Worth It?

I just worked 15 hours today and I'm in a pretty pensive state. Is it really worth it to go through 4 years of undergrad, then studying for grad school, getting in some high debt, then working for rest of my life to pay off those loans and feel like grad school was worth it? Like I get the feminist argument is that women should have their own careers for independence, to not be subordinated by a husband, etc. But if its not being "subordinated" by a man - its being subordinated by your employer! Your employer deciding when you wake up, work, eat, sleep. Etc. Like I spent all my undergrad in the library taking more than 22 credits regularly, when I could've been focusing on getting super skinny and getting hot and finding a husband? Like my friend got married at 23, she's super gorgeous, and with a millionaire who gives her everything. All she does is model and look pretty (and she's not even a highly booked model at all). Like is it normal to wonder, why am I going this route- just to feel like an ivy league degree was worth it, and feel so much pressure to go to grad school since I'm motivated to do it bc of many influencing factors? 

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Comments (212)

  • Prospect in IB - Ind
Mar 26, 2021 - 2:06am

I guess it's about whether to hedge your bets in your looks or your brain. if your friend gets dumped for not being 23 anymore, hopefully your brain is still able to make you a good living. youth fades over time wealth (hopefully) grows

  • VP in IB - Ind
Mar 26, 2021 - 10:55am

It's not just that. I have friends who have divorced their hot wives only 1, 3, 5 years down the line while they were still hot because the thrill of that fades quickly. Their conversations revolved around "how was your day" and "what do you feel like eating" or just her losing her mind over the stupidest shit ever because she couldn't comprehend basic adult concepts. How are you supposed to remain intrigued by someone who scrolls through Instagram all day or is never growing?

Mar 26, 2021 - 4:21am

Honestly just do what you want. It sounds like you might have second thoughts about what you're doing when you see your friend, but your friend might also be thinking the same thing in regards to you: why didn't I study hard and do what she's doing? Etc. 

"Markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent."

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Mar 29, 2021 - 2:08pm

I feel like a lot of people here are operating on a binary- either a high end IB/MBB career or a trophy wife lifestyle.  A lot of people are in the middle- they don't kill themselves with HW and school, get a good job at a F500 that doesn't work them too hard (but also doesn't have the 'prestige' or pay of IB), then they date/marry in their mid-late 20's.  You can very well take your ivy degree and get some 90k/year corporate strategy job that works consistent 9am-6pm hours.

If I was in your situation, I would do some introspection: would you rather have a high powered career but take the risk of sacrificing childbearing/marriage during your late 20's/30's? What do you really want in life? 

Also, If you are motivated enough to be on wso, I do not think you'll be fulfilled being a trophy wife for some millionaire. 

Most Helpful
Mar 26, 2021 - 6:55am

When you realize feminists have scammed you and ruined your life... 

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

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Controversial
Mar 26, 2021 - 8:14am

Btw, let me spoil you how it ends: you join the cohorts on tinder/bumble of the 35+ women, great looks, upper tier managerial job.... that noone considers for a serious relationship. And while the extra time for you is running out, you still hope to find a man around your age and income level willing to start a family with you, deluding yourself he won't pick someone 10 years younger every single time. 

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

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Mar 30, 2021 - 12:42pm

Hit the nail on the head. Single with no fulfilling relationships, no kids or family to speak of and no one that wants to settle down with a woman in her 30s. But hey, you sure showed the patriarchy who's boss!!

Apr 1, 2021 - 4:07am

This is a good read about things that your college professor, media and in general the cultural elite is not telling you:

https://americanmind.substack.com/p/thirty-flirty-and-not-thriving?toke…

The irony about ''ok boomer'' is that boomers are indeed to blame, but not for ''climate change'' or lack of achievements in terms of ''social justice''. They just sucked at parenting. Big time. And millennials are paying for it.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

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  • Intern in IB - Gen
Mar 26, 2021 - 7:12am

Being a working woman is about not having to rely on a guy to provide you with anything. Your friend looks gorgeous now but looks don't stay forever (some of my close friends' moms are ex-models and looks do fade unfortunately). What if the millionaire guy is tired of her after 10 years and then leaves her? What if he makes her miserable but she can't leave because she can't support herself so she's stuck? Being financially independent and having a real career means that you can always make choices based on your free will and not based on how much allowance your husband is willing to give you that month. Plus if he has any brains at all, he will be storing assets in accounts that she'll never hear of. Being paid by an employer makes you rely less on the whim of a single person.

Mar 27, 2021 - 1:35am

Dude if the millionaire guy leaves her she gets 50% of his shit....not really a disincentive for not working lol. You can rarely hide material sums of money in a divorce, it's very naive to think he can just 'store assets in accounts she'll never hear of'....divorce lawyers will tear through it all

Mar 26, 2021 - 8:47am

 You're probably in one of the worst groups lifestyle wise (granted one of the best paying). This is a pattern repeatedly seen on this website. People want to have it all: very high pay, low hours, tier 1 city, FO role, interesting work, prestigious bank. The reality is that at least one of these attributes needs to be sacrificed to get the others. The most common one ends up being the low hours. If the hours are bugging you, you'll have to decide which of the others you're willing to give up. 

Array

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Apr 1, 2021 - 7:33pm

IncomingIBDreject

 You're probably in one of the worst groups lifestyle wise (granted one of the best paying). This is a pattern repeatedly seen on this website. People want to have it all: very high pay, low hours, tier 1 city, FO role, interesting work, prestigious bank. The reality is that at least one of these attributes needs to be sacrificed to get the others. The most common one ends up being the low hours. If the hours are bugging you, you'll have to decide which of the others you're willing to give up. 

Yep, my job is boring as hell but pays well and has easy hours (fewer than 40). But it's so boring. I want to throw up most days.

Array

  • Intern in IB - Gen
May 28, 2021 - 5:10pm

IncomingIBDreject

 You're probably in one of the worst groups lifestyle wise (granted one of the best paying). This is a pattern repeatedly seen on this website. People want to have it all: very high pay, low hours, tier 1 city, FO role, interesting work, prestigious bank. The reality is that at least one of these attributes needs to be sacrificed to get the others. The most common one ends up being the low hours. If the hours are bugging you, you'll have to decide which of the others you're willing to give up. 

Yeah I'm definitely willing to sacrifice prestige to get the other things you mentioned. I know that roles exist that tick all of those boxes (minus prestige), they're so hard to find though because they're usually smaller companies with good culture and good pay so no one wants to leave.

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Mar 26, 2021 - 9:20am

WSO strictly thinks in "worth it" or " not worth it". Being a working women is a right fit for some people, but not for others. Still, being on the investment banking / high finance track is worth is for a way smaller cohort of women. Do some reflecting, figure out what you truly want.

  • Intern in RE - Comm
Mar 26, 2021 - 10:47am

I suppose it depends on the woman you are. I'm a guy, but if I was a girl, I could not be like your friend. She's basically stuck with a guy who cheated on her (and may likely cheat again) doesn't have a career or her own independence. Regardless of the fancy things she may have, it's not a good life. For you, if you hate the long hours and constant work then maybe you can find something less stressful that you enjoy doing, but that'll come with some self reflection.

Mar 26, 2021 - 11:16pm

I actually love working long hours. I want to work more. But im just wondering --- what if I had started off living a diff life focusing on my looks and placing myself in the right places to get noticed by men. I maybe would have been married by now, not worried about grad school or my future career. I mean Im pretty I guess, but having been in the library every waking moment and surrounded by immature college guys certainly didn't help. I can make a whole book about the guys who caused me trouble in college. TERRIBLE. Stalkers, a false legal case, a guy who lied about being a trader, another one who just wanted me to be his girlfriend so he could use me but then marry a girl from his culture, then a broke lawyer who made me cry. At least none of them got what they wanted. I could've been investing my time in meeting older guys instead. 

Mar 26, 2021 - 11:51pm

jorbanana56

I could've been investing my time in meeting older guys instead. 

yeah sure but are you hot?

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Mar 27, 2021 - 2:03am

jorbanana56

I actually love working long hours. I want to work more. But im just wondering --- what if I had started off living a diff life focusing on my looks and placing myself in the right places to get noticed by men. I maybe would have been married by now, not worried about grad school or my future career. I mean Im pretty I guess, but having been in the library every waking moment and surrounded by immature college guys certainly didn't help. I can make a whole book about the guys who caused me trouble in college. TERRIBLE. Stalkers, a false legal case, a guy who lied about being a trader, another one who just wanted me to be his girlfriend so he could use me but then marry a girl from his culture, then a broke lawyer who made me cry. At least none of them got what they wanted. I could've been investing my time in meeting older guys instead. 

Sounds like you like a particular type of guy, but you should consider the expanding your market (or keep expanding bc you've mentioned a line up of ex boyfriends that seem to use you).  That means not all guys are like that, but the one's you are historically attracted to are not the right fit unfortunately. 
 

Regarding the friend who doesn't have any ambition, that characteristic would be hard for me to want to be with long term.  

Have compassion as well as ambition and you’ll go far in life
Jun 1, 2021 - 6:37pm

jorbanana56

 I could've been investing my time in meeting older guys instead. 

-

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

  • Associate 1 in RE - Comm
Mar 26, 2021 - 10:56am

I can't imagine being "just a pretty face". It sounds like your friend is not particularly good at anything other than being hot (and even that will only last a handful of years). Does she have passions, hobbies, interests, goals?

If your goal is to have LV purses and expensive vacations paid for by an older man, then yeah, you absolutely took the wrong path. But I cant imagine a more depressing life than that.

When deal flow died at the start of covid, I got my first taste of being a sugar baby like your friend. There was almost no work and I got large sums of money deposited in my bank account each month. It was not fulfilling at all

  • Works at Goldman Sachs
Mar 26, 2021 - 1:40pm

No it's not worth it. If some chick wanted to marry me and risk half her wealth and just spoil me while I lifted and looked hot that sounds amazing. If she leaves me I keep half? Don't mind if I do

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Mar 26, 2021 - 2:14pm

No it's not worth it. If some chick wanted to marry me and risk half her wealth and just spoil me while I lifted and looked hot that sounds amazing. If she leaves me I keep half? Don't mind if I do

I have had this propositioned to me when I was 24, but didn't really want to spend the rest of my life with her. I think picking our lifetime SO is one of the most important decisions we can make in life.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Mar 26, 2021 - 9:00pm

What it sounds like is you're kind of burnt out here, and I think more or less what you're looking for is better balance. I'm on the S&T side (better work/life balance, prob more stressful on the committer side) and have a fair number of female colleagues so I'll chime in on my observations. SVP's/Directors are all divorced with kids, seriously they all are. There is also a decent population of mid level VP's in their thirties who are perpetually single, I actually think that group just gave up. All the analysts/associates are also mostly single and will end up in the same boat as said VP's if they don't move on to something less demanding, they still have hope though. Most simply don't have time to actually dedicate to a relationship, and ambition is usually coupled with aggression which usually doesn't work out in the long run with men as we prefer agreeable women. I think the working woman mentality is a "Me first" mentality, and that's fine but if you're looking for a partner who is a bread winner it will not work out. I agree with posters above that working in high finance leaves you with options and independence, but in the same light it limits your ability to find a potential partner which is important for women in your age bracket because once you enter your 30's, the dating game becomes tough. So you have to make a decision. Would you prefer to work strenuous hours, make bank, but struggle to find a partner or would you rather take a lesser job, make less money, but be able to actually date and find someone who will support you (likely working the hours you are now). These are the kinds of options you have to weigh. Just remember as a woman age is NOT just a number, you become less desirable on average as you age, that is a cold reality you have to come to grips with

Mar 27, 2021 - 2:16am

"Love" based on age and attractiveness is no love at all. 

True love goes beyond the qualities you mentioned.

I know a man who dumped a model in her 20s for a woman in her late 30s. 

Mar 27, 2021 - 11:18am

That's great for that guy, but on average most men date younger women and that's a real statistic. So women that forego their youth in pursuit of careers are non-starter partner candidates to most successful men. It's an unfortunate reality

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Mar 26, 2021 - 9:13pm

I always wonder why women in finance do it. women are biologically wired to want to have kids and raise a family and meanwhile I work with women in their mid 30s / 40s with no family and wonder what the fuck they're doing spending 100 hours a week working. at least when guys make a lot of money it attracts more females. I couldn't care less how much my girlfriend makes

Mar 26, 2021 - 10:53pm

Not every woman "wants" to do menial, boring labor largely confined to 4 walls for the rest of her life and be responsive to the beck and call of spoiled, ungrateful rich brats. 

Some women are you know actually smart and want to do something more fulfilling/intellectually stimulating in life.

Edit 1: I am a guy...

Edit 2: This comment was referring to raising kids.

Array

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Mar 27, 2021 - 9:50am

You should do whatever suits you, but you're not "actually smarter" than women who choose to raise a family lol. What a tone deaf comment. 
 
And the vast majority of work isn't intellectually stimulating or they wouldn't pay you to do it. Yes this is true even for the dream job roles out there. 

Array
Mar 27, 2021 - 7:54pm

Preach sister, working on wall street sucks, surrounded by 4 walls, working with ungrateful rich bratty MDs and directors, are always at their beck and call....its horrible

totally agree with your comment

would much rather hang out with some kids that love me

you were talking about working at a BB right?

Array
Mar 31, 2021 - 5:12pm

IncomingIBDreject

Not every woman "wants" to do menial, boring labor largely confined to 4 walls for the rest of her life and be responsive to the beck and call of spoiled, ungrateful rich brats. 

Some women are you know actually smart and want to do something more fulfilling/intellectually stimulating in life.

Edit 1: I am a guy...

Edit 2: This comment was referring to raising kids.

I agree, at least not the women I know.  I have changed diapers and watched the little ones and let me tell you, it is so much easier to go to the office and work.  Most men are not going to want to stay home with the kids.  A former colleague of mine with young 4 young kids would volunteer for business trips, lol

http://www.series65examtutor.com
Mar 26, 2021 - 9:13pm

As a 28 year old woman in finance, I wish I'd monetized my looks while I still had a chance. 

Mar 26, 2021 - 10:43pm

When_the_Pawn

As a 28 year old woman in finance, I wish I'd monetized my looks while I still had a chance. 

Monetizing one's looks as a female usually isn't worth that much unless you're top in the world as a model. 

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Mar 26, 2021 - 10:46pm

Isaiah_53_5 💎🙌💎🙌💎

When_the_Pawn

As a 28 year old woman in finance, I wish I'd monetized my looks while I still had a chance. 

Monetizing one's looks as a female usually isn't worth that much unless you're top in the world as a model. 

Females?

Mar 26, 2021 - 9:20pm

Honestly though, late stage capitalism you and everything you do is commodity and only you can decide what cost you're willing to pay to make the living you want. 

Mar 26, 2021 - 11:52pm

You are putting way too much pressure on yourself. Truly a vast majority of this site does. The guy, who analyzed his whole desks data points for females in "S&T" its a bit much. I met my spouse much later in life and know many others in finance who did too. My spouse from day1 was given the option to work if she wanted, she has worked/not-worked but either way she truly manages a vast majority of all our household decisions. She probably manages our finances more actively. Truly most finance ppl do not have time to do it all themselves and need a true partner to help balance so you can go work those long hours and kill it. This goes for doctors/lawyers as well (though again most doctors I know married other doctors cuz after long icu days a pretty face aint enuff).

Society/Technology is changing us. You think your friend at 23 is living the life really? They used to say "high school is your best years", then it was "no college is your best years..", then "your early 20s make money live it up get married.." now its coming to your 30s is when you can choose to do whatever. It will keep changing.

If you enjoy working long hours and kill it, dont put so much pressure on yourself. At 35 you are  going to live life your way, raise kids your way, the amount of ppl who find their passions later in life these days is way more common. Your friend at 23, even if the guy dont leave her aint gonna have the same options she will never be the one on control.

Mar 27, 2021 - 12:28am

Like I get the feminist argument is that women should have their own careers for independence, to not be subordinated by a husband, etc. But if its not being "subordinated" by a man - its being subordinated by your employer!

It's possible to be in a loving marriage too... not all men subordinate their wives.

Maybe lay off the feminist kool-aid a little bit.

Mar 27, 2021 - 10:10am

You want a man to make you feel subordinate? I'm guessing you mean he's the breadwinner and you stay home with the kids? At the same time enjoy long hours and want to work more. Or is it a weird fetish you have. Jk jk. If you really want to try out the type of life style you want, go find yourself an older man who is horny as fuck and just play with him - don't even have to sex. Literally just lead him on and you'll get a taste of that life. If you like it go ahead and be with him I guess. Or move on to the next rich, old bastard. There are few out there.

  • Analyst 2 in RE - Other
Mar 27, 2021 - 1:54am

LOL I feel this way every time I'm in the depths of a deal, working late nights, and getting bags under my eyes. It better be worth it! 
 

I work because it fulfills me in a way, and it's a big source of pride/identity. I'm married, and my husband makes 80% of our household income. I can probably stop working in a few years if I wanted to. But for my own sanity, I need to work, and I need to know that if we ever broke up, or if he died, or if he became unable to work for any reason, I can pick up the slack. 
 

What old guard feminists failed to tell us is that the world does not look kindly on working women or working moms. So we can be gunner boss bitches all we want, but our bosses haven't changed their minds about us. They still assume we're all gonna get married, have babies, and quit. They treat us accordingly, hence, the glass ceiling. 
 

Do whatever the fuck you want. You're working and making your own money now. You can make yourself as hot as you want. 

Mar 27, 2021 - 3:37am

1) there is no guarantee that somebody will provide for you your whole life or even long-term even if you look very good. guys may date you for a bit and leave.

2) your look depends a lot on your genetics. you can't do much if your face isn't hot.

3) to make a guy provide for you, you need to be good at sex as well. if you're a bookworm, there is a high chance that this piece is missing. and even if you look good, if you can't do anything and are boring in bed, ain't nobody gonna spend money on you.

overall, it all depends on who you are. if you're hot and good at sex (submissive, genuinely enjoy giving deepthroat, eating ass, etc.), then it's probably easier to get money from a man/men. if you're a shy bookworm with an average/below average face and body who thinks that blowjobs are degrading, then it's better to make money at work.

Mar 27, 2021 - 8:50am

#3 is ridiculous. Just because you're a sociopath with a crazy addiction does not mean every male or even a majority of males fits into your narrative. I've gone to school with "bookworm" virgins who at least from what I could tell were able to attract many guys. As of now, those people are still studying in top schools, but I don't really doubt said people will get married a couple years after graduation. Now of course I have no idea if said people are still virgins, but when I did talk to those people it was something that seemed very important to them.

Array

Mar 27, 2021 - 12:07pm

Yea Im a virgin. I decided this because I don't want guys to use me then discard me like how my female friends were treated in college. Also it's just not in my nature to be in the hands of multiple men. I want to discern if the guy I'm seeing would be a good husband. And to do that, I feel like I have to leave out sex out of the equation in order to not be controlled or make lousy decisions out of oxytocin production. Also it's just a moral decision - even if my future husband might have not done the same thing, I don't want my mind clouded by memories of guys who used me in the past while I'm with my husband. Plus- I prefer to be with a guy who prefers me in the state I am. I don't want to date a guy who wants to date a girl with low standards just because she gives him sex. Out of all the guys I date, my husband would be the one who actually truly deserves to have me. 

Mar 27, 2021 - 12:36pm

So how many of them are married to a millionaire and don't work?

From my observation, most of the girls who have a lot of money (drive expensive cars, live in luxury apartments, dress at expensive boutiques, and have a lot of clothes, shoes, accessories, etc.) and don't work, are exceptional sluts. And guys / a guy give them money because they make their wildest dreams come true.

  • Research Associate in Research - Other
Mar 27, 2021 - 9:39am

If you feel like someone/something is always subjugating you (employer, debt, husband, life, whatever) then I think you're thinking about it the wrong way.

Your life is totally yours. You might be in debt now working for someone but that's your own choice. If you choose to see the world as being yours for the taking then every move becomes a choice. You choose to go in to finance. You choose to go to grad school. You choose to take on debt so you can make more choices down the road. One day you might even have a choice to start a business, non-profit, or whatever.

Learn, work hard and smart, and always know that you can make different choices at any point in your life. Just be aware of the consequences and how to manage them. Also understand what your skills, strengths, weaknesses are. If you do, life will reveal all sorts of opportunities. YOUR LIFE IS YOURS AND NO ONE ELSE'S.

To add a real life data point. The above is the sentiment my own mother expresses. She's a very successful businesswoman clearing high 6 figures ~ low 7 figures per annum. She didn't come from money. But she had a unique life experience to teach her that her life is totally up to her own. Her favorite story to tell is the story of how she bought her first car (in college) - it was a mid-priced convertible. Apparently everyone at her college thought she had a rich daddy but she made all that money by herself tutoring rich kids willing to pay ridiculous sums of money and doing some translation work that only small number of people in the country could do well at the time (due to her "unique" life experience). 

She also managed to have a loving family with 2 well-adjusted kids and a supportive husband.

In contrary to what the "world" tells you, it's possible to have it all.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Mar 27, 2021 - 6:27pm

Wharton grad with a 3.9 GPA. She could have easily crushed it in banking, private equity or whatever career she wanted but I guess she makes more now given her rates.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Mar 31, 2021 - 3:32pm

It would not be crazy to earn close to 8-10 k per month if she can monetize it correctly and perhaps diversify into becoming a top watched gamer. Sky is the limit in all honesty 

  • VP in IB - Gen
Mar 27, 2021 - 4:13pm

What I don't get is why you chose IB? Even within the realm of finance, there are many well paying jobs that are "9-5". You can still switch jobs and be independent (aka not rely on someone else). You'll still be ivy educated, which makes finding a job outside of IB much easier. If you still want to get married, you'll be attractive to guys that are actually useful to society. 

I've never been married, but I have colleagues that got married to high school/college/brothel sweethearts and then divorced. It's because the Investment Banker spouse worked all day and wasn't available enough. 50% of assets and 25% of income gone, and all for what? 

So I guess the saying is true, the grass is always greener on the other side. You can still change your trajectory. Sounds like you should get a job that's more balanced and enjoy the finer things in life-- travel, eating out, messing around friends (especially with benefits), etc.

Mar 28, 2021 - 12:04am

Idk why people are so triggered by your question, comparison is the thief of happiness. What you're experiencing is just normal "grass is greener" shit meaning you only see the glamor and the pros but haven't thought through the cons of having to depend on a dude and sell yourself with your looks. Also, among my friends and I, we all prefer dating women with careers/professional ambitions so I'd also consider if you really wanna be the arm candy (if you have the looks) to a some 40/50 year old or build a life with someone where you grow together. I hate this analogy but you should think if you want your future relationship to be a merger or an acquisition and I'll put it at that. 

To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering.

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Mar 28, 2021 - 7:01pm

if that's true then a) I hope you're hot enough and b) working in a high-intensity field like front-office finance probably isn't right for you. Though I don't know what you mean by "be on my own lane in terms of achieving goals". If you're being wholly provided for, what goals are you achieving as it pertains to being a working woman?

To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering.

Mar 28, 2021 - 5:30pm

jorbanana56

Where would I GTFO? 

-

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

  • 2
Mar 28, 2021 - 9:48am

It depends.  If you want your husband to treat you like a peer and be valued for your mind, a woman should work.   If a woman does not care about being treated equally, or being valued for her mind and likes charging diapers/shuffling kids to activities, then staying at home makes sense

http://www.series65examtutor.com
  • 2
Mar 28, 2021 - 7:29pm

My opinion of Stay at home moms is higher than fianaceabc's. I think there is real value in one partner staying at home IF it is not necessary for them to work. They can find other things to keep them interesting and intellectually engaged. But I have to say, you perfectly fit the description of a woman from 1950 lmao. You don't want to work, no contributions to the household, and want a strong provider. Which is fine. But don't you think you'd be giving a lot up? Not just a career, but your life in a sense. You'll just be a pretty face and when you aren't you'll get thrown away. So many contradictions in what you've said, and I think you're a troll, but it's a funny thread. So there is that.

Mar 28, 2021 - 8:22pm

jorbanana56

But a woman can be valued for her mind and still be a stay at home mom - I hope! And I deff don't want to be treated like a peer. 

Most intelligent women don't want to stay at home for the rest or their lives.  Most women are not going to want to study diligently in school and then stay at home.  There are more women in law school these days compared to men.  Women do not have to make that kind of a choice these days.  They can do both.  I am giving you the metropolitan view.  Views could be very different in a rural town in the South.    As I write this reply, I am asking myself why am I conversing with a troll.  On WSO, you are a male unless you prove otherwise.

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Mar 29, 2021 - 1:03pm

Says the middle age guy who goes to WSO to get parenting advice. Yea, sounds like you and your wife really got it together. What a clown take bro.

Both my wife and I are professionals who decided not to work 90 hours per week.  My wife is a successful attorney but does not work crazy hours.  Dude, this is not rocket science. I am not sure what is so difficult for you to understand here.  Most modern, educated couples have two people working.  Literally, every educated modern woman I know works.  I can't imagine spending $125,000 to $250,000 on college and then not work.  What a waste of money that would be.  

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  • 1
Mar 29, 2021 - 1:40pm

I don't have as much life experience as you but this seems a bit biased imo. Like what do you mean by "treat equally"? It's natural for husband and wife to have different roles and for a husband to treat his wife differently than the wife treats her husband. We should ask if it's even desirable to be "treated equally" (which depends on your definition of "equal"). Also I've seen plenty of relationships in my life while growing up with a working wife and working husband and I think you would be severely wrong to assume that mutual respect is a given. A lot these relationships involve 2 people low on agreeableness who start to compete against one another and eventually leads to excessive conflicts where each instance can be characterized by the wife and husband trying to diminish each other's contribution. This occurred frequently with my parents before they got divorced.

With regards to your last sentence, I think you're making more of a statement than an observation. I don't think there's anything less valuable or honorable in changing diapers/raising kids/having majority responsibility over the household versus being the breadwinner. If that's not your opinion and you're merely pointing out an observation that husbands tend to have less respect for such wives within the current culture, then I might be agree.

Mar 29, 2021 - 3:45pm

The only way I can really see the wife and husband "competing" each other is if they are in the exact same industry. Terrible analogy, but in college I don't talk to anybody I know who's majoring in finance about my recruiting journey, simply to avoid it turning into a toxic "comparing" game. I speak with other business fields but not finance. 

In pretty much every example I know of, the wife and husband are not in the exact same career, unless they both jointly own a business. 

As for your inequality point, sure men and women are wired differently, nobody is denying that fact here. But what we are talking about are the top 1% of smart, driven girls who actually want to work and have some sort of career. I get that both parents can't be managing directors an investment bank, but let's say the girl does F500 instead. There's still inequality but it's not the same as the smart girl doing absolutely nothing while the guy has a hot shot career. 

Array

Mar 29, 2021 - 9:22pm

There's no need to go to such extremes, haha. This would be like saying you gotta pick between eating meat every meal of every day or never. Uh... no you don't. If you don't want to work that many hours then... don't. Get another job. Less money probably but also less hours - completely up to you.

For your friend, all the power to her if she wants that, but I would just take a deep think before deciding "grass is greener on the other side". Easy question is pre-nup or no pre-nup? If no, she's screwed if the guy decides he wants someone else hotter (and at that point she may also be left with kids, it happens). No prenup and she still might end up feeling unaccomplished and like nothing more than a flower vase (that's a polite way to put it). There's something to be said for being proud for what you get for working hard versus what somebody else gives you. Also million $ guy probably has lawyers so may just drag out court case until she goes broke... once again leaving her with nothing.

P.S. Confused about the grad school comment. You don't need to go to grad school to work in finance (even IB).

Mar 30, 2021 - 2:28am

I am sure lack of gym time is the only thing keeping you from finding a husband, just like lack of convincing hair plugs is the only thing keeping LeBron from being the next Jordan.

I’m a fun guy. Obviously I love the game of basketball. I mean there’s more questions you have to ask me in order for me to tell you about myself. I'm not just gonna give you a whole spill... I mean, I don't even know where you're sitting at
Mar 30, 2021 - 9:02pm

Dammmmn. Looks like I'm most attractive to a 40+ year old as a 23 year old. But like 20 year old girls rarely get married, I guess because they like guys guys their age. When I was 21 I liked a guy my same age, and it's two years later and I'm like- nah I need to find a guy 10+ years older. Not about to invest my time in a guy who is "not ready". 

Mar 30, 2021 - 9:14pm

I don't think the takeaway is what specific age finds you attractive. I think it's more the following:

  1. Women who get married solely based on their looks to older men are more likely to be unhappy later in life due to divorce/cheating/etc. (there are plenty of good looking women who don't fit this bill)
  2. Women delaying marriage are going to have a harder time finding someone than their male peers
  • Associate Consultant in Consulting
Mar 31, 2021 - 11:43am

I always found this to be the main issue with modern feminism. Women try to have it all, but they can't!! I've chatted with so many girl who want: High powered, high paying career, Husband equally or more successful, children who you see and communicate with often, etc. Men don't even attempt to get close to all of those things. They pick one or two (e.g. good career, children you don't see too often) and run with it. It's great you're a working woman, I would just try to build the other aspects of your life to support that (e.g. a husband who's willing to stay at home with the kids) 

Mar 31, 2021 - 1:19pm

Thanks for message. That's my issue though - because of my cultural upbringing, I feel uncomfortable if my future husband cleans or stays at home. That's my job- that's how I feel feminine. And I want to feel feminine and I want to be in a relationship that contains gender roles. I was called a homophobe in college for saying this- but I have nothing against people who do otherwise. But for me- it feels right to be in a relationship where there are gender roles. So I have sacrifice something- but I'll only make the sacrifice when a guy marries me. I will continue making career and education plans as if I'm never getting married. 

Apr 1, 2021 - 2:46am

These gender roles you crave are based on thousands of years of female oppression.

If I grew up in a house where my father beat my mother, do you think I'd question myself if beating my wife was essential for me to feel masculine?  You don't need a husband, you need a therapist. Your culture, like so many others, was built by the ignorant and perpetuated by those that stayed ignorant. You are a learned person.  Act like it. 

Side note, first comment or post in a long time. I hadn't thought about WSO in ages until tonight when I got an email saying someone had thrown shit at something I said literally more than 10 years ago (I read the post and I deserved it, grown a lot since then).  I decided to login and see what it's like around here these days. Glad to see more females but would prefer them to be capable of evolution.

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