LevFin vs Restructuring (and creditor vs debtor)

musto430's picture
Rank: Senior Monkey | 99

Hey everyone,

Just wondering what the general view is on restructuring at one of the top 3 vs Levin at a BB?

Interested in the differences between the amount you learn, type of exit opps, worklife etc.. any thoughts?

Also, people often talk about HL being creditor focused and bs /laz debtor focused - what would that mean for the day to day job? I assume more legal stuff on the creditor side and industry analysis on the debtor side?

Cheers all

Comments (27)

Aug 16, 2012

Surely someone has a view on this..?

Aug 16, 2012
Aug 16, 2012

Is this a joke? Restructuring, 1000/1000 times. Lev fin isn't technical work at all in my experience. Maybe it is at JPM & BAML since those places are so highly touted on this site, but i doubt it. Those are just the biggest players in lev fin...Seriously doubt they are responsible for any of the modeling

Aug 28, 2012
FernandoTorres9:

Is this a joke? Restructuring, 1000/1000 times. Lev fin isn't technical work at all in my experience. Maybe it is at JPM & BAML since those places are so highly touted on this site, but i doubt it. Those are just the biggest players in lev fin...Seriously doubt they are responsible for any of the modeling

Depends where. Not all LevFin groups are the same.

Aug 28, 2012

Agree not all LevFin groups are the same. Usually a counterpart to the sponsors group, with one generally seen as more legitimate than the other (and it's generally sponsors that's preferred).

In most cases, I agree restructuring will be the better pick, but LevFin at a top firm will in some ways offer you a bit more career flexibility. Restructuring is still somewhat nichey.

The creditor vs. debtor rep question is easy. Always debtor. Debtor's rep is seen as more complex and in the weeds of the company and its assets. Debtor also always gets the first stab at a restructuring plan. Creditor's rep is protection for the lenders.

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Aug 28, 2012
re-ib-ny:

Agree not all LevFin groups are the same. Usually a counterpart to the sponsors group, with one generally seen as more legitimate than the other (and it's generally sponsors that's preferred).

In most cases, I agree restructuring will be the better pick, but LevFin at a top firm will in some ways offer you a bit more career flexibility. Restructuring is still somewhat nichey.

The creditor vs. debtor rep question is easy. Always debtor. Debtor's rep is seen as more complex and in the weeds of the company and its assets. Debtor also always gets the first stab at a restructuring plan. Creditor's rep is protection for the lenders.

Don't completely agree with this either. These days, a lot of implemented plans come from the creditor side as sponsors have no interest in putting in new money in many of their 2007 era boom deals and you don't really learn much from a loan amendment/extension. At the end of the day, it depends on the deals you were staffed on.

Aug 28, 2012

traditionally, debtor side is known to be more hands on. the lines are blurring now, as more and more BRs are pre-packed.

very few true restructuring groups out there and they are likely all more technical, better experience than any LevFin groups. you do get branded as a distressed guy pretty quickly though because it is so technical.

Aug 28, 2012

LevFin and leaving at 11pm don't mix

Aug 28, 2012

Awfully late for a summer stint. Is this with an MM or boutique?

Aug 28, 2012

I already did SA last summer. Returning FT.

Aug 28, 2012

Lev Fin groups tend to have the most hours, along with M&A. But at the end of the day, hours depend on the bank itself. Are you at a top-teir MM? Boutiques tend to not have lev fin groups

Aug 28, 2012

Thanks. Yeah top-tier MM would be a good description, should have mentioned that.

Aug 28, 2012

LevFin groups don't usually get in past 8am and leave the same hours as other IBD groups. Analysts get in around 9am.

When markets are robust, hours can get even worse, but there is always a baseline work week of 80-90+ hours a week for pitching, road shows, and bank meetings during a syndication process.

My comments above reflect a top-BB, who consistently are lead-left on deals. If you're a co-manager on deals, your hours will tend to be significantly less. MM boutiques without a significant balance sheet, don't even have a lev fin group, unless they ONLY focus on private placement offerings which usually carry far less intense hours.

Aug 28, 2012

Rx is slow right now, so if you want to build up your resume and deal experience, LevFin is probably the way to go. However, if you are working where I think you are, Rx is a much stronger group.

Depends on what you want to do though. LevFin and Rx (particularly from the Creditor's side) place into different exit opps. What are you looking for?

    • 1
Aug 28, 2012

Wish I could just tell you where I'm working but you seem to get the idea. I haven't narrowed myself to either PE or HF but leaning more toward HF while preferring to keep an open mind.

Aug 28, 2012
WSO2015:

Wish I could just tell you where I'm working but you seem to get the idea. I haven't narrowed myself to either PE or HF but leaning more toward HF while preferring to keep an open mind.

Again, really depends on what you want to do. If you think you may want to get into distressed or SS, Rx is clearly the best choice. If normal M&A is your goal, LevFin may be a better bet.

Rx has stronger exit opps b/c of the reputation. But, IIRC, the top guy is based out of the MW. If that's where you are going to be, then you are golden. But, even if you end up in LA or NYC, you are still going to get solid experience.

Aug 28, 2012

I have the opportunity to join any group (there are 1-2 VERY strong coverage groups) or a product group. Is it naive to be thinking about hours/lifestyle among a busy and popular coverage group versus M&A/Lev Fin/Restructuring?

What I mean is, am I going to get killed regardless?

I've basically narrowed it down to those three product groups and the strong coverage group and I don't really see any of them requiring less hours (maybe 10-15 less hours) per week.

Aug 28, 2012
WSO2015:

I have the opportunity to join any group (there are 1-2 VERY strong coverage groups) or a product group. Is it naive to be thinking about hours/lifestyle among a busy and popular coverage group versus M&A/Lev Fin/Restructuring?

What I mean is, am I going to get killed regardless?

I've basically narrowed it down to those three product groups and the strong coverage group and I don't really see any of them requiring less hours (maybe 10-15 less hours) per week.

Don't underestimate 10-15 extra hours per week. But, since you don't really know, I would say join the group with the best deal flow. It isn't worth sacrificing extra hours for good deal experience when you are new IMO. Wait until you age haha.

You just need to sit down and rank items in terms of importance (i.e. hours, exit opps, prestige, deal flow) and see where each pans out.

Aug 28, 2012
peinvestor2012:
WSO2015:

.

Don't underestimate 10-15 extra hours per week. But, since you don't really know, I would say join the group with the best deal flow. It isn't worth sacrificing extra hours for good deal experience when you are new IMO. Wait until you age haha.

You just need to sit down and rank items in terms of importance (E.G. hours, exit opps, prestige, deal flow, AND TYPE OF DEALS / SECTOR) and see where each pans out.

fixed it for you.

Aug 28, 2012

wow I thought both WF and MB finished a long time ago ----

Aug 28, 2012
Aug 28, 2012

wells LevFin has always been on top of the league table

    • 1
Aug 28, 2012
levfiner:

wells LevFin has always been on top of the league table

U.S. Lev Fin Bookrunner 1Q-3Q 2012 (by volume)
1 JP Morgan
2 Bank of America Merrill Lynch
3 Wells Fargo & Company
4 Credit Suisse
5 Barclays
6 Citi
7 Deutsche Bank
8 Goldman Sachs & Company
9 Morgan Stanley
10 RBC Capital Markets
11 General Electric Capital Corporation
12 SunTrust Bank
13 UBS AG
14 RBS
15 Jefferies Finance LLC
16 BMO Capital Markets
17 BNP Paribas SA
18 Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group
19 PNC Bank
20 U.S. Bancorp

Note: If you go by deals, then Wells jumps: BAML, Wells, JPM

Aug 28, 2012
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Aug 28, 2012