12/16/10

NYC imposes a wage tax that could be used for lots more fun. Does anyone live outside of the city on paper but still rent/own someplace in the city on weekdays(or completely) to avoid this additional pain in the A and have some extra change for IDK a motorcycle?

Comments (58)

12/16/10

back in the day when I was new in the city - very junior level - I used to live in LI city (which is part of queens, which is party of NYC).

To save my ass from giulani, I told my employer that I live in Hyde Park, Long Island. Which is at border of queens and LI. Technically, it is not part of NYC. So saved me some tax dolla.

It was my cousin's address. pay stub went there. End of year, I sent him a bottle of Johnny blue on xmas for doing a favor.

I never EVER forget favors. Neither should you.

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12/16/10

This is a strategy that you might be able to get away with if you make $100K/year. If you make $500K/year, expect to have the city tax collectors spying on you to see if you spend 183 nights/year in the city.

Tax evasion is a felony, but they'll probably just assess a 50% failure to file penalty rather than send you to jail if they catch you and it's not really egregious.

If you're going to live in Brooklyn anyways, why not just actually live in JC or Hoboken? Shorter commute, lower taxes, more open space, nicer people.

12/16/10

I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter if you live in Kentucky, if you work and earn in NYC, you're still required to pay the incremental city tax.

12/16/10

Nope. I live in NJ partly for tax avoidance purposes and do not pay a dime of city tax. It's only for NYC residents.

IMHO, people who work in banking but choose to live in Brooklyn or Queens rather than the sixth borough are shooting themselves in the foot.

12/16/10
IlliniProgrammer:

Nope. I live in NJ partly for tax avoidance purposes and do not pay a dime of city tax. It's only for NYC residents.

IMHO, people who work in banking but choose to live in Brooklyn or Queens rather than the sixth borough are shooting themselves in the foot.

You are currently evading taxes. I had this very specific conversation with one of the partners at my shop that who used the same approach. He got audited and he tried to use the fact that he worked from home and traveled frequently as an excuse. They made him prove every day in which he was on the road using receipts etc. Basically-- the burden of proof is on you. At the end of the day, he got hit with the tax.

CompBanker

  • Anonymous Monkey
  •  10/10/15

This is tax avoidance...not evasion. If this person lives in NJ. Its not about working in NYC ...but where you LIVE. I live in Long Island and work from home. I also commute to the office in the city. I pay no city taxes because I do not live in the boroughs. Tax avoidance is legal.

12/16/10

good topic. what about someone making around 100k a year. Would it still make sense to move to jersey?

12/16/10

it has to be said - because jersey fucking blows and no chick would ever come back with me there.

12/16/10

^^^ Same deal with Queens and Brooklyn.

Guest- for someone earning $100K/year, your city taxes are going to run somewhere between $250 and $300/month. Also, rent in downtown Hoboken will be about 65-70% of rent for an equivalent apartment in Manhattan, so that's maybe another $400/month in savings. The commute to midtown Manhattan from Hoboken is about 13 minutes, shorter than a commute from the financial district.

If you absolutely love city life or do not want members of this forum stereotyping you as having a fake tan and speaking with a ridiculous Italian accent, live in one of the five boroughs. If you're that pragmatic guy who looks at the commute, the cost, and the living and realizes it's roughly the same thing for $7-$10K/year less, maybe it's time to start thinking about Hoboken.

In any case, Queens and Brooklyn are good for people who earn less than $60K or want to pay an extra couple grand a year for the privilege of saying they live in New York.

-CT is for rich people with families.
-Manhattan is for young people working for banks.
-The sixth borough is for pragmatic young people working for banks.
-Brooklyn and Queens are for people who are either crazy or poor.

12/16/10
IlliniProgrammer:

^^^ Same deal with Queens and Brooklyn.

-CT is for rich people with families.
-Manhattan is for young people working for banks.
-The sixth borough is for pragmatic young people working for banks.
-Brooklyn and Queens are for people who are either crazy or poor.

I have to strongly disagree with the last 2, NJ is a shit hole.
Wiliamsburg, greenpoint and areas by the 7, and maspeth in queens are quiet, people are pretty nice, pretty young community and 1, 1 thats right 1 subway stop to manhattan so it takes a whole 15 min to get to BofA or CS or JPM, and anyway for the money your saving you can get a nice duplex and take a black cab to work everyday via the midtown tunnel, still probably saving on the small manhattan appt in which you cant open a window cause of all the car exhaust and noise.

12/16/10

Well, here's what the NYC website has to say about this:

New York City charges a personal income tax to City residents. The tax is administered and collected by the New York State Department of Taxation and Finance for the City.

Every income-earning individual, estate and trust residing in New York City must pay personal income tax. Part-year residents figure their tax based on income and deductions on the days lived in NYC.

Most people living outside the City are not subject to NYC personal income tax. However, non-city residents who are Employees of New York City must file Form 1127 and pay taxes each year. The amount is equal to the personal income tax they would owe if they were City residents.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/services/business...
If you live in NJ (or even Westchester) and work in NYC, you do not owe city taxes. You only owe city taxes if you live in NYC. Even then, they only tax your earned income, IIRC.

12/16/10
IlliniProgrammer:

....However, non-city residents who are Employees of New York City must file Form 1127 and pay taxes each year. The amount is equal to the personal income tax they would owe if they were City residents.

Am I reading this right? "Non-city residents who are employees of NYC....pay taxes each year".

12/16/10

Yes- keyword here "of New York City" not "in New York City". If you work for the City of New York as a public defender or as a trash collector and commute in from Westchester or NJ, you owe city tax.

12/16/10

More info on this, though not from as authoritative sources:

Employed by the city as municipal employees are required to pay the city the amount they would pay in city taxes if they were to reside within the five boroughs. Anyone who works in NYC and resides in the suburbs does not have to pay the tax, so long as they work for NYS, the federal government, or a private employer.

NYC employees who must pay the NYC tax file a specific form with NYC each year to do so.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/westchester-county/...

If you stay overnight in NYC 183 days a year but claim you live in NJ, you can get audited. That's where you run into problems. You also run into them if you work in New York State but claim you work in NJ for the lower state tax rates. I'm guessing this is what happened with CompBanker's coworker.

12/16/10

As an analyst, would it make a huge difference? I feel having less of a commute matters (more sleep) matters more. Or is this thread guided towards individuals higher up?

12/16/10

Yes. Some people NEED to live in Manhattan. If you work in IBD or plan on working more than 70-80 hours/week, you probably need to live in Manhattan.

However, if you can live in Brooklyn or Queens, you can also live in Hoboken or Newport. Frankly, I don't think there's any real debate about which neighborhood is better on a financial basis for folks earning six figures. Newport and Hoboken win hands down for the lack of city tax.

So the last question- if you don't need to work 70 hours/week- is do you WANT to live in Manhattan? If so, is it worth an extra $7-10K/year and a smaller apartment to live there? I can't answer that question for folks. What I can do is give the cost- $7-$10K more to live in Manhattan vs. Newport or Hoboken for someone earning first year analyst pay.

During 2007-2008, this turned out to be the perfect move. Despite a 30 minute commute, I was getting a lot more sleep than my first-year coworkers living walking distance from the building. An extra $7K in the bank and 30% lower rent makes it a lot easier to sleep during a financial crisis. It paid off in spades come early 2009 when I got to pick up a bunch of very safe dividend stocks and MLPs yielding double-digits.

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12/16/10

Illini, obviously Hoboken works for you and you seem to be a huge advocate for the area. But isn't it possible that since you're usually the only voice that supports relocating to Hoboken over other areas, that you don't really represent a sizeable portion of people?

I understand stating your opinion every once in awhile, but justifying it to most who have a certain level of income / hours instead of just saying "Hey I did it. I liked it, but it may not be for the 90% of people out there." sort of distorts the general consensus on the topic.

12/16/10

I understand stating your opinion every once in awhile, but justifying it to most who have a certain level of income / hours instead of just saying "Hey I did it. I liked it, but it may not be for the 90% of people out there." sort of distorts the general consensus on the topic.

That's the thing- there isn't a consensus on this. It's like buying a managed fund from JP Morgan Chase vs. sticking money into a Vanguard ETF. Not everyone can agree on which choice is better, but one thing that is helpful that everyone can agree on is pointing out the cost of each choice and letting folks decide if that cost is worth it. I can say that it's a legitimate option for people outside of IBD- a double digit percentage of folks working in markets lives in Hoboken or Jersey City.

In any case, this was a discussion about taxes, not Hoboken vs. NY.

12/16/10

Brooklyn is definitely better than Jersey, are you fucking joking?

I'm much more willing to meet up with a non-manhattan dwelling friend in BK than anywhere in Jersey. They've got a fun St Patty's day and thats about all they've got going for them.

12/16/10
Marcus_Halberstram:

Brooklyn is definitely better than Jersey, are you fucking joking?

I'm much more willing to meet up with a non-manhattan dwelling friend in BK than anywhere in Jersey. They've got a fun St Patty's day and thats about all they've got going for them.

Your first statement is slightly confusing, i believe you meant to order the nouns in reverse or restructure the sentance to make it clear Brooklyn is fucking better than Jersey.

And besides, hoboken or whatever hobo town of jersey is full of all the IT and back office folks. I just find north jersey repulsive in general.

Manhattan is ok if you dont mid the constant noise, traffic, pollution, insane crowding and lack of a view. I dont so I greatly enjoy my 3000$ ~3000sq ft dulex on a quiet street (only 3story houses) and a view of the park and a back yard with 1 stop to Manhattan in Brooklyn.

And if you havent gotten the exclusive tour of Brooklyn's nice (closed) neighborhoods you guys are missing out.

12/16/10

Or you could sublet an apt and have your address go back to a non NYC address.

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12/16/10

The nebulous complaints about NJ despite it having short commutes, lowish rents (slightly higher than Brooklyn and Queens, though) and no city tax illustrate why I think it's the pragmatic choice. Heh, I guess I must be a value investor.

If you work in IBD, I seriously recommend living within walking distance of work. Otherwise, figure out where you want to live and how much it's worth it to you to live there.

12/16/10

People just have a hard on for NYC because they think it is cool. 7k is significant and if you are not working extreme hours it probably makes financial sense to live outside and commute. Problem is people do shit for a million reasons outside of pure economic benefit.

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8/26/14

Bumping an old thread, I am seriously considering staying in New Jersey but you need to also consider that:
-rent will be more expensive then in parts of Queens/Brooklyn
-commute will go up, especially if you want to have both a NY pass and pay for the PATH transportation too
-tax prepartion costs will go up if you can't deal with the multi-state (probably not huge but still)

that can easily add another $4k from my estimates (very rough estimates), which will eat up on tax savings significantly

8/26/14

This is a straight CBA if you assume commute time and general cost of living (excluding rent) is the same. Take the sum of the difference in rent, commuting costs and tax savings and see what the actual difference is. I am not sure what the difference between NJ and NYS tax is but NYC tax works out to about 2% annually. I would say depending on if you work downtown or midtown the commute from Queens, brooklyn or different parts of NJ can differ quite a bit. Especially if you live someplace like Forest Hills (in Queens) where a commute to downtown can be around 45-50 minutes.

Doog37

8/26/14

On paper I technically "lived" in connecticut with my parents for all three of my analyst years at a NYC BB - NYC tax collection never called me on it....

8/26/14

JuniorMInion:

On paper I technically "lived" in connecticut with my parents for all three of my analyst years at a NYC BB - NYC tax collection never called me on it....

* NOT LEGAL ADVICE *

"For all the tribulations in our lives, for all the troubles that remain in the world, the decline of violence is an accomplishment we can savor, and an impetus to cherish the forces of civilization and enlightenment that made it possible."

8/26/14

NorthSider:

JuniorMInion:

On paper I technically "lived" in connecticut with my parents for all three of my analyst years at a NYC BB - NYC tax collection never called me on it....

* NOT LEGAL ADVICE *


Lol love it.
8/27/14

The first rule of Fight Club is: You do not talk about Fight Club.

This thread should be deleted in all honesty.

8/27/14

We need to delete the comment where a guy admits to certain crimes and continue this discussion.

You have a good point. I ran this calculus too. But here's what I came up with:

-My extra tax filing costs for NJ were $24.95 to Turbo Tax for an extra state.
-PATH is less expensive than NYC subway. If you work for GS or Deutsche, you can walk from WTC, too. If you work in midtown, it's often walkable from 33rd street, although it may just be worth the $2.50 fare. Either way, this is pre-tax money through commuter benefits.

8/27/14

IlliniProgrammer:

We need to delete the comment where a guy admits to certain crimes and continue this discussion.

You have a good point. I ran this calculus too. But here's what I came up with:

-My extra tax filing costs for NJ were $24.95 to Turbo Tax for an extra state.

-PATH is less expensive than NYC subway. If you work for GS or Deutsche, you can walk from WTC, too. If you work in midtown, it's often walkable from 33rd street, although it may just be worth the $2.50 fare. Either way, this is pre-tax money through commuter benefits.

I ran some calculations as well. According to my math, you only live one time.

On that basis, decide how many nights out with friends and hours on the subway you want to miss in order to save a couple thousand tax dollars on >$100k income at age 22.

"For all the tribulations in our lives, for all the troubles that remain in the world, the decline of violence is an accomplishment we can savor, and an impetus to cherish the forces of civilization and enlightenment that made it possible."

8/28/14

I propose a new form of Godwin's Law where "YOLO" replaces Hitler.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of Starwood Points

8/27/14

Wait, someone pays for software still? History books remember great men who refused to be fleeced by criminal taxation. I suppose striking the above Patriots comment to protect him from the oppressive government is a positive.

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8/28/14

As an aside, I want to echo NorthSider. You only live once. Soon enough you'll be married and have kids and your only joy will be every day ending and being one moment closer to death. Enjoy life now, that glimmer in your eye will fade soon enough and you'll be willing to pay anything to get a moment back.

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8/28/14

Bingo. Spend 1/3 of the savings on stuff only 20-something's can learn. EG skydiving. Living in Jersey City you're a half hour ride through the Holland Tunnel closer to Gardiner.

You can live in Manhattan when you are 80. You only are 22 once.

8/28/14

Who wants to live in Manhatten at 80? To each their own, but enjoy yourself. You're not going to give a shit about your bank account when you're on your death bed. Get some roommates and like in the city.

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8/28/14

TNA:

Who wants to live in Manhatten at 80? To each their own, but enjoy yourself. You're not going to give a shit about your bank account when you're on your death bed. Get some roommates and like in the city.


Or 30 or 25. Point being is that living in NYC is something that you can defer. There are other things that you can't defer.

Seriously you're working 70 hours/week your first year. And if you had wanted a life you would have chosen a career in insurance, accounting, or software dev. If it's worth the extra 30 hours/week to be in finance earning a big paycheck, maybe it's worth living in Hoboken. You're asleep for most of the hours you spend in Hoboken, anyways. If you totally go YOLO, maybe it's worth it to work for an insurance company or CPA firm instead.

You work crazy hours and give up some of the best years of your life to make this kind of money. It would be sad to not walk away with anything from it.

Look, I've lived in Manhattan and I've lived in NJ. I honestly enjoyed living in Paulus Hook more than I enjoyed living in Midtown West. The commute was nice when it's a 10 minute walk, but there was just as much stuff to do in Jersey City, it was easier to make friends, we had an amazing view of the skyline, and when you got home, work stayed in Manhattan. Oh, and you weren't gritting your teeth about how much everything cost.

I can see how some people want to live in Manhattan and it is a matter of preference, but if you don't really want to live in a specific place- just a safe neighborhood with middle class people and stuff to do, Jersey City or Hoboken is a pretty darned pragmatic choice if you don't work 100 hours/week.

8/28/14

Pros of living in New Jersey and working in Manhattan:

--You save on taxes and a little bit of rent so you can have some extra money stashed away when your youth is gone

Cons of living in New Jersey and working in Manhattan:

--Say goodbye to your dating life
--Commuting is awful
--Get viewed as a stingy curmudgeon by your peers
--Say goodbye to your dating life

Not every decision is made on a purely financial basis. And not everyone has the same values. Some people would rather save a little less while having greater flexibility in their social lives. Not everyone wants to hang glide, some people prefer to hit up happy hours and enjoy what the city has to offer without having to deal with the Path train.

Lastly, I think IP is viewing the residents of Jersey City / Hoboken through rose-tinted glasses.

8/28/14

But your first year or two working for a bank, those three problems with NJ are true of you wherever you live. Why not save a good $30-40K after tax in the process of suffering all of those problems for two years?

Living in NJ allowed me to go to grad school. It also convinced several of my peers to join me in NJ.

Living in Manhattan when you work in banking is like pulling double-shifts for minimum wage at McDonald's for two years to make money, then spending $30 (1/4 of your earnings for the day) every evening taking someone to the IMAX theater because you "want to have a life". If you're working crazy hours, there's more effective ways to give yourself a life than to consume more in the few remaining waking hours you have left.

(At some point, Manhattan rent does become a business expense if you are working 90-100 hours/week.)

Finally, has anyone who has negative stuff to say about NJ actually ever been there let alone lived there? Gotten off the train at Grove Street or Exchange Place lately? Is it some mob infested industrial wasteland? Or is it a refreshing break from the city?

Look, if you follow WSO's advice of taking out $200K in student loans to attend a target school, your interest + principal payment is going to be $2000/mo. On a GS salary of $85K, you get about $4700/mo take-home to work with, but $2000/mo goes out the door for those student loan payments, and another $2000/mo goes out the door for rent if you live in Manhattan. And as much as I'd like to tell folks taking standard WSO advice to spend the remaining $700 on bottle service, they also need to spend that salary on Ferragamo loafers or a Hugo Boss suit, or maybe food and electricity. After all, it is awkward to take a cute date home, flip the lightswitch, and then say "Oops. My check for the electric bill bounced".

I'm not morally opposed to Manhattan, but if everything I say about saving money on WSO is ridiculous- from giving serious thought to going in-state to considering NJ or the outer boroughs, then the outcome most bankers can expect from following conventional WSO advice is pretty ridiculous too, and I don't see how the numbers come anywhere close to balancing. We got into this industry because we like making money, so why are we handing out advice that causes people to go deep into debt and then borrow even more money every month while working?

8/28/14

That just isn't true. I dated as a junior banker, I have friends that did. And it's not just dating or even picking up girls. It's having flexibility in your social life. Living in NJ would make that tougher. And, as someone who did a reverse commute out of NYC for a couple years, I can tell you that commuting on anything other than the Subway is awful and soul crushing. It eats away at your sleep and your free time. The most you can do on a train is read or work and try to not lose your mind from doing it daily.

You can bust out an extreme example of someone with 200K in debt, but that's not everyone. And even though banking can have long hours, not every week is a 100+ hour week.

Regarding NJ vs. NYC - that's definitely a personal preference thing. But, let's not act like NYC is some hellscape that steals your money without real benefits while NJ is some paradise. Jersey City is small and insular. I'm in midtown Manhattan and have a great place at a decent rate. If I want to get out of midtown, it's a quick subway ride to just about anywhere in 10 - 15 minutes.

Lastly, I think it'd be a lot more likely and embarrassing to try and take a cute girl home only to have her say "wait...what?" when you start walking down to the PATH train station with her. Not all girls will be like that, but it's a lot harder to navigate for most folks than hopping in a cab and being home in 5 - 10 minutes.

Fuck it. I think we should just agree to disagree. People need to find a balance of what they like.

8/28/14

On dating, date in NJ. The girls there are a lot chiller.

On student debt, this is the advice that WSO gives- that a target is worth $200K (actually $250K) of debt if you have to go. Please help me understand how someone who followed this advice and is $200K in debt affords Manhattan rent on $4700/mo after $2000/mo in student loan payments. I honestly don't think it's possible.

Maybe we have to agree to disagree. My only point is that I'm a bit more frugal than conventional WSO wisdom because conventional WSO wisdom can't always balance its checkbook at the end of the month.

8/28/14

1.) There are chill and non-chill girls in NYC. There are tons of people to meet and endless options, let's not put them into a bucket of not being as chill as Jersey girls. Plus, it'd be just as easy (and more accurate) to stereotype the bros that populate NJ.

2.) Someone with 200K of loans should look to save money. But, you don't need to spend $2,000 a month on rent in Manhattan. Most people live with roommates, especially when they're a year or two out of college. You can get your rent down substantially by doing that and by living uptown or in midtown.

3.) Not every decision is predicated purely on the financials. You advocate for saving more so when you're old, you'll have more money. That is reasonable, except you downplay the things you miss out on by making the sacrifice of living across the river. It's a bigger deal to most others and you have a very unique perspective and outlook.

8/28/14

We're both going off of a several year old rental market in NYC. My understanding is that a small studio between Battery Park and 100th street now starts north of $2000 and any kind of two bedroom goes for $4000+ (Walk-up or not). Even with a roommate, it's hard to find a place in Manhattan for less than $2000. But even if you get it down to $1500, $1200/mo isn't a lot to live on in NYC. Heck, contestants on "Till Debt Do Us Part" get more to live on in Toronto than that. So I think you need a boost from some combination of avoiding NYC tax or splitting in an outer borough or non-Manhattan PPP to make it work.

When we were analysts, Manhattan could be done for ~$1700 for a small studio or ~$1500 to split, but starting was $70K and take-home on that was $4000/mo. Of course that was before broker fees, which amounted to 1-2 months' rent. It's virtually impossible to rent those walk-ups without a broker, and the ones where it's possible, they usually know this and charge more rent. NJ and Brooklyn typically are FRBO locales, another plus.

I'm not advocating anything here other than not bouncing checks.

8/28/14

Every banker I know lives in Manhatten and is doing fun shit. Hell, I live in Philly and scoff at people who commute out of the city.

Saving money isn't the end all of live. Put some away and enjoy yourself. My goal isn't to have a massive sum put away when I die. It's to have some cash and truly enjoy my life.

And you're not pulling ass as part of the B&T crew. You need to Ruffie chick's to just get then to the LES from Midtown, let alone NJ.

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8/28/14

Wait why are you assuming people would want to date in Manhattan over close to where they live? You live in Philly- do you date in Manhattan?

8/29/14

IlliniProgrammer:

Wait why are you assuming people would want to date in Manhattan over close to where they live? You live in Philly- do you date in Manhattan?

My comment was referencing how I don't understand why people live outside of Philly, not

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8/28/14

For the record, $2,000 with a roommate is very much on the high side. Most Analysts I know with roommates pay $1,600-1,700.

Also, if you find escaping Manhattan refreshing, move to Williamsburg in Brooklyn. Retain your

I'm the first to support going against the norm with respect to neighborhoods. Branch out of Midtown West, Murray Hill, etc.; but, trust me, living in NJ as an Analyst will have a significant, negative impact on your experience. If saving every last dime is what gets you up in the morning, go ahead; for 99.99% of people on WSO, you will regret the move.

"For all the tribulations in our lives, for all the troubles that remain in the world, the decline of violence is an accomplishment we can savor, and an impetus to cherish the forces of civilization and enlightenment that made it possible."

8/29/14

NorthSider have you lived in NJ? I did for four years. It had little negative social impact on my life. And many of my friends moved there with me when they realized it was safe and it didn't hurt your social life.

Honestly this is harder than trying to sell green eggs and ham to some folks. It shouldn't be when wide open spaces and low taxes and low rents 20 minutes or less from Manhattan kinda sell themselves.

In any case, if anyone can think of a good reason not to visit JC or Hoboken (EG you will get mugged) or NOT to talk to people from JC or Hoboken (there are several CUs on this forum who live there), can you please let folks in this thread know? Maybe it is OK to ask folks from jersey some questions under certain circumstances (EG in a box or with a fox.)

8/29/14

NJ is fine if you're married or something, but why work in finance to have a commute like that. Just pay some money and actually live in the city.

I just don't get the sales pitch. Some people prefer money over living in the city and the social aspecat. That's fine. But trying to sell JC as being just as social as Manhattan is kind of BS.

Money isn't everything in life.

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8/29/14

Hoboken and JC are a 25 minute commute. They're closer than the vast majority of Brooklyn/queens and 1/2 of Manhattan. If you need the subway or a bus to get to work, and you work south of 50th street, Hoboken or JC is probably closer than most of Manhattan in terms of commute. Hoboken is 12 minutes from 33rd St; Exchange Place (Paulus Hook) is 5 minutes from the World Trade Center.

Sure there can be late evening commutes; that's what the black car service is for. Hoboken via the Lincoln Tunnel is closer to 49th St than SoHo is.

Oh well. No need to check the PATH schedules or ask anyone who lives there. Just trust conventional WSO wisdom (the same wisdom that's giving you $1200/mo to live on after student debt and rent).

8/29/14

IlliniProgrammer:

Hoboken and JC are a 25 minute commute. They're closer than the vast majority of Brooklyn/queens and 1/2 of Manhattan. If you need the subway or a bus to get to work, and you work south of 50th street, Hoboken or JC is probably closer than most of Manhattan in terms of commute. Hoboken is 12 minutes from 33rd St; Exchange Place (Paulus Hook) is 5 minutes from the World Trade Center.

Sure there can be late evening commutes; that's what the black car service is for. Hoboken via the Lincoln Tunnel is closer to 49th St than SoHo is.

Oh well. No need to check the PATH schedules or ask anyone who lives there. Just trust conventional WSO wisdom (the same wisdom that's giving you $1200/mo to live on after student debt and rent).

"Conventional WSO wisdom" may be too far in the direction of overspending. But you are making ridiculous assumptions in getting to your figure of $1200/mo. Outside of some very rare exception, nobody is starting as an analyst with $200K in student loan debt. The Ivies/elite schools that feed into analyst programs all have excellent financial aid programs. It's very unlikely that you are in the situation of both (a) getting no financial aid from the school, and (b) parents are unable to pay any amount towards your education. For most people that I know starting as analysts, their parents have paid for their education in full. In my particular case, financial aid covered virtually my entire cost of attendance at an Ivy.

Personally I think LIC is a viable option if you are working in Midtown East but couldn't imagine Jersey as a banking analyst. Living in LIC you don't have to worry about taking PATH and transferring to the subway. You are actually closer to work than if you had lived in most of Manhattan. You are still making some social sacrifices if you are living outside of Manhattan but you are closer to the action than Jersey.

8/29/14

Gotta love the hyperbolic student loan assumptions, considering the DOE stats show that the vast majority have less than $50k. Over 50% have around 20-30. Not to mention for profit education skewing this.

I had less than $20k coming out of Syracuse, which has pretty high tuition costs.

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8/29/14

TNA:

Gotta love the hyperbolic student loan assumptions, considering the DOE stats show that the vast majority have less than $50k. Over 50% have around 20-30. Not to mention for profit education skewing this.

I had less than $20k coming out of Syracuse, which has pretty high tuition costs.


The advice coming out of WSO is that Cornell is worth $200K in student loans over Baruch no matter the circumstances. I'm just going off of that. Someone came to WSO, asked what he should do, you guys said Cornell. Now he might be reading this thread. Are you saying that Manhattan is worth it over JC no matter the circumstances? I really think my biggest problem is the unconditional certainty WSO's conventional wisdom is given with.

Also, landing in IBD or even the FO of a bank in NYC isn't exactly the average case out of most private schools- even Ivies.

In any case ANT when was the last time you lived in NYC or visited JC? You do know that there are several people you know from the forums who live there now, right?

8/29/14

I'll say this, if you're making like $60k a year all in and working normal hours, then living in Manhatten probably isn't the smartest. I know so many people (mainly girls) who make crap money, live 3-4 deep and think they are hot shit because they live in NYC. That's dumb.

My point is if you work a lot of hours and make a lot of money you might as well enjoy it. Not supporting being G flat broke on a banking salary, but I think many people can work in finance, live in Manhatten, and save some money on top of it.

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8/29/14

Sure. There's nothing wrong with living in Manhattan. I estimate it costs $15K/year over the outer boroughs, but it's worth it if you're earning enough. I did not like Manhattan or NYC as a place to live (besides the pay and the work and the friends) very much, so for me the decision on JC vs. NYC was very straightforward for a long time. I might have made a different decision if I had grown up in NYC or went to school on the east coast and had lots of friends moving there.

Just as long as everyone is aware of the trade-offs in both directions, and that you can always move from one neighborhood to the other at a later date.

8/29/14

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