Not getting interviews

Student at target/semi target school with a gpa above 3.5 but still not great. Also have decent relevant experience on resume but not getting any interviews at all.

What should my game plan be for right now?

I also applied to some small banks that posted on my career site, but they don't have school alumni working there. Should I bother networking with those banks?

Comments (82)

Sep 5, 2017

Are you applying for internships or for full-time roles?

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Sep 5, 2017

Did you network

Sep 5, 2017
Charizard:

Did you network

In order of significance

1) Networking

2) Target / Non-Target

3) GPA

Sep 5, 2017

I did, but maybe not enough. I just got phone calls with some ppl at the banks I applied to

Sep 6, 2017

I would keep networking, if you realize that you're not good at networking for whatever the reason, try to make adjustments or even ask for feedback from the person speaking with you. Your game plan from this point forward to be constantly networking and improving the way you speak with teams.

If you know that you're not good at networking then you should be looking to try out different ways to improve.

I've read further down and wanted to also point out that it is arguably harder to get an internship than a full-time position (one leads to the other). If you go into this process with a defeatist attitude you're better off not starting.

Sep 5, 2017

Similar situation at a target, high GPA, finance experience - got straight up rejected without first round from a BB recently (tbf I hadn't networked there, but still). Having much better luck in AM than IB

Sep 5, 2017

One fucking firm didn't give you an interview & you think they owe you something? LOL. They literally screen through hundreds of resumes & a lot of it has to do with luck if you don't know anyone there.

Sep 5, 2017

Strongly second this. Youre a nut @margin_caller1". There are kids at targets with 3.9s getting rejected from MM regional banks and you have the audacity to complain about one rejection from a firm when you have no IBD experience? Thank God for people like you, doing minimal networking and then complaining when you arent considered a top candidate with zero effort. You are the reason non-targets get opportunities to break into finance. I have friends at targets and semis who spent hundreds of hours networking with anyone who would hop on the phone with them just to get a chance at a first round. Figure it out or find a nice cushy sales position where the staff drools over your POS resume

Sep 5, 2017

Lol it is honestly hilarious. I've met so many people from allegedly pristine colleges who are completely terrible to deplorable. Don't even get me started on the white/asain race hustlers from ivies who get into diversity events with their bullshit clubs & history dept research "internship" haha.

I think in general that ivy people on this site like to be condescending to non-core people because they're insecure as fuck.

Sep 5, 2017

I'm from a very non-target but please, that goes both ways. Retards from community colleges to non targets to semi targets are also condescending to ivy leaguers.

Sep 5, 2017

Lmao y'all need to chill the f out... I never complained or said I was owed something there; just providing a data point in response to the OP. I've done my "hundreds of hours networking" at banks I'm more interested in. If you're getting so worked up about the fact that I thought I would get a first round based on the strength of my resume, then maybe you're bringing your own insecurities into a thread where it's not really relevant.

Sep 5, 2017

I personally like to bring up my insecurities whenever possible. @margin_caller1" your post was dumb, move along

Sep 5, 2017

how do you spend hundreds of hours networking and not hit all the BBs

Sep 7, 2017
Sep 5, 2017
Deal Team Six:

Strongly second this. Youre a nut @margin_caller1. There are kids at targets with 3.9s getting rejected from MM regional banks and you have the audacity to complain about one rejection from a firm when you have no IBD experience? Thank God for people like you, doing minimal networking and then complaining when you arent considered a top candidate with zero effort. You are the reason non-targets get opportunities to break into finance. I have friends at targets and semis who spent hundreds of hours networking with anyone who would hop on the phone with them just to get a chance at a first round. Figure it out or find a nice cushy sales position where the staff drools over your POS resume

You okay bro? Anything you need to talk about?

"Elections are a futures market for stolen property"

Sep 5, 2017

Not anything someone in Corp Dev could help me with. Didn't know you guys were taking on HR roles, kudos to you for trying to stay busy

Best Response
Sep 5, 2017

Easy on the addy kid.

"Elections are a futures market for stolen property"

Sep 5, 2017
Sep 5, 2017

OP I have had good luck networking with non-alumni, but it is time consuming. My advice: reach out to the smaller boutiques and send custom emails and find literally anything you have in common with them. Still nothing? Look them up on Linkedin and tell them you admire their career path, have similar interests, also like to work for non-profits in your free time, etc. I have had very good luck even in situations where I fucked up big time (they worked in LA not Denver for example), just by personalizing my messages and being sincere and grateful when they hopped on the phone with me. Best of luck

Sep 5, 2017

Thanks dude. Yeah, I think I'm just bad at networking, I don't think I am very memorable on the phone. Will start reaching out to more people.

Question, when you reach out to random analysts, do you just hope they are on the recruiting team or do you have a way of finding out?

Sep 5, 2017

Basically my advice is don't blanket canvas a firm with all their analysts, they will think you're a sperg. Just choose the one or two you think you would have the best conversation with and reach out. Don't worry about recruiting team nonsense.

Sep 5, 2017

I've spoken with analysts from my school who said they weren't on the recruiting team and didn't really know what was going on in terms of recruiting, so I thought it was important to know.

Sep 5, 2017

i'd argue its a numbers game, good luck

Sep 5, 2017

You probably have a POS resume. Network hard and prepare super well for SA interviews.

If this is for full time, you are better off searching for non-IB roles at this point.

Sep 5, 2017

I think my resume is fine, I think it's just my gpa that is hurting me
but yea, this is for internship not full time

Sep 7, 2017

How good is your "relevant experience" though? If it's a solid experience, gpa may be overlooked to a certain degree?

Sep 7, 2017

are yall implying that a 3.5 gpa from target isn't enough to get an interview with a decent amount of networking?

Sep 7, 2017

Apparently not, according to the title..

Sep 7, 2017

My experience is definitely relevant but they werent at big names so they prolly dont give a fuck

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Sep 7, 2017

a 3.5 and work experience that is relevant but not recognizable means that you're probably in the middle of the pack of applicants. keep trying to network! it may seem fruitless at times, especially when you're reaching out to people who aren't alumni, but there are people out there who are willing to help. most of them have been in your shoes.

Sep 7, 2017

You have 8 LinkedIn Connections, if that is representative of the amount of networking you have done then that would explain why you are not getting interviews. Have you tried contacting alumni, friends, people in the industry?

Sep 7, 2017

I don't really use linked in...I have tried all of those things yes, but maybe I should try more? I have sent many applications in directly to recruiters and directly through websites.

Sep 7, 2017
garrettcjohns:

I don't really use linked in...I have tried all of those things yes, but maybe I should try more? I have sent many applications in directly to recruiters and directly through websites.

I got my current job off of someone I met through linkedin. DO EVERYTHING. Do you want this or not????

Get busy living

Sep 7, 2017
garrettcjohns:

I don't really use linked in...

That's like saying you want to do banking but you don't really use Excel.

Sep 7, 2017

That's the market right now, it's the reality that a lot of kids are facing... First of banks didn't have record SA classes this past summer. Secondly, there are extremely high numbers of those same SA's returning to the firm and accepting their offer without shopping it around too much or jumping ship all together. Banks all have their OCR processes too so with 95-100% return rate that leaves what... a few slots left maybe? So those slots are being filled with their OCR candidates so the bank doesn't dick-kick the school/alumni relations w/e. So! That leaves non-targets such as yourself out in the dark.. even my references weren't able to get me 1st rounds at all of the banks I was interested in... so I'd say hello to an MSF, I might be shortly..

Disclaimer: I'm not saying non-targets don't get interviews, it's just tough right now.

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

Sep 7, 2017

I agree with BepBep12 ^^ It is extremely hard out there and he literally laid out the process for these banks for you. Being at a non-target definitely limits your chances by a long shot. With great grades and a solid GMAT score you should probably take your ass to duke or something for an MSF.

Sep 7, 2017

yep. name brand matters, like it or not. pony up the $50k and pay for it. you've obviously got the ability, now you just need the rubber stamp.

Sep 7, 2017

Thanks guys, I have applied to several MSF's. I didn't realize LinkedIn was so important (I was told some companies ask people to delete their accounts). I have been sneaking into recruiting events at UCLA so maybe that will pan out. I appreciate the suggestions.

Sep 7, 2017

.

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

Sep 7, 2017

LinkedIn is super important, even if you're not reaching out to people with it. It establishes a public profile for you that almost every recruiter out there checks up on if you're applying for a job with their company. It allows them to cross reference what you said on your resume with what you've posted on a public profile that is connected to your peers, both from school and from previous work experiences. You can't exactly bullshit a LinkedIn profile that is connected to 400 people that you have worked with / gone to school with previously. There is an implicit check on the bullshit factor, and recruiters take advantage of that. If you don't give them that opportunity, they may just toss your resume in the trash.

Sep 7, 2017

Sounds like a check in the box as in... is XYZ candidate a liar? And did they avoid making an ass of themselves on LinkedIN? This kid wouldn't be going through a recruiter anyway, non-targets make/break it through referrals; these guys do the initial B/S screen and then push them on.

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

Sep 7, 2017
BepBep12:

Sounds like a check in the box as in... is XYZ candidate a liar? And did they avoid making an ass of themselves on LinkedIN? This kid wouldn't be going through a recruiter anyway, non-targets make/break it through referrals; these guys do the initial B/S screen and then push them on.

The guy is a non-target, how do you suppose he get referrals if he doesn't use LinkedIn? Also it's not just recruiters who check LinkedIn. The referrals the guy is looking to reach out too will check it as well. LinkedIn is your face when it comes to networking, especially if you are a non-target and have experiences with a hedge fund - no one would know that unless they looked at your LinkedIn.

Sep 7, 2017
IB2001:
BepBep12:

Sounds like a check in the box as in... is XYZ candidate a liar? And did they avoid making an ass of themselves on LinkedIN? This kid wouldn't be going through a recruiter anyway, non-targets make/break it through referrals; these guys do the initial B/S screen and then push them on.

The guy is a non-target, how do you suppose he get referrals if he doesn't use LinkedIn? Also it's not just recruiters who check LinkedIn. The referrals the guy is looking to reach out too will check it as well. LinkedIn is your face when it comes to networking, especially if you are a non-target and have experiences with a hedge fund - no one would know that unless they looked at your LinkedIn.

Using LinkedIN should be a last resort for someone looking to make connections... he should do what I did and what every other non-target must do...get off the fucking computer and talk to real live people, do you not read this website? Esp. being a hedge-fund he should mine the fund's relationships, what is so hard about exploiting an opportunity? I'm not hating on LinkedIN, but it's by far not the best/only/most important tool to use when recruiting

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

Sep 7, 2017
BepBep12:
IB2001:
BepBep12:

Sounds like a check in the box as in... is XYZ candidate a liar? And did they avoid making an ass of themselves on LinkedIN? This kid wouldn't be going through a recruiter anyway, non-targets make/break it through referrals; these guys do the initial B/S screen and then push them on.

The guy is a non-target, how do you suppose he get referrals if he doesn't use LinkedIn? Also it's not just recruiters who check LinkedIn. The referrals the guy is looking to reach out too will check it as well. LinkedIn is your face when it comes to networking, especially if you are a non-target and have experiences with a hedge fund - no one would know that unless they looked at your LinkedIn.

Using LinkedIN should be a last resort for someone looking to make connections... he should do what I did and what every other non-target must do...get off the fucking computer and talk to real live people, do you not read this website? Esp. being a hedge-fund he should mine the fund's relationships, what is so hard about exploiting an opportunity? I'm not hating on LinkedIN, but it's by far not the best/only/most important tool to use when recruiting

Spot on....

Sep 7, 2017

Your most important asset in the entire networking process is and always will be your personality (provided a baseline level of experience / academic qualifications).

Disagree 100% with you saying LinkedIn is a last resort. LinkedIn is the largest public database of industry professionals at all levels Analyst - MD out there. If you can't figure out how to effectively develop a networking strategy with all the free content that is available on this website and others by utilizing not only your alumni/personal connections but also the entire LinkedIn universe then the problem is undoubtedly with you.

Look---you probably shouldn't be PM'ing people on LinkedIn asking for phone calls (although it's worked for me before), just play the email game and go from there. I'm sure I don't need to say this, but you're late. Way late. I'm not saying you should panic, but dude, if you want it, go for it. Like, 30 emails a day and as many calls as you can get. Land just one superday? Worth it, it only takes one.

Sep 7, 2017

I think for many coming from smaller non-targets, LinkedIn is the way to make those connections. It's great to filter by school attended and company worked for to find connections. Send those alumni a quick (4-5 sentences) message about how you are passionate about the industry and would like to learn about their experience in the field. Offer to take them to lunch or meet up for coffee at a convenient place for them. You'll be able to get some solid feedback on what worked for them (who doesn't like free lunch and to talk about themselves) and they just might refer you to their boss or HR. Many companies will automatically do a screening interview for anyone internally referred.

Also, reach out to your professors to see if they have connections in the industry or know former students who have pursued a career similar to what you want. It is a total waste of time to apply online to jobs without any sort of 'in'.

So to me, LinkedIn is a GREAT first step, but you must take it beyond exchanging messages. Make that human connection and people will be much more likely to refer you because they know and trust you.

Sep 7, 2017

nobody said it was the best tool. Looks like all that was said was he needs a profile that he actively maintains. where did you see someone suggest that take the place of real face-to-face networking?

Sep 7, 2017

.

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

Sep 7, 2017

Same boat as you are in..I met this one cool alumni who was the best person I networked and was very interested in helping me out and didn't get an interview at his firm.

Sep 7, 2017

To some extent it is a numbers game. Networking with a few people is not likely to lead to anything. It should be in the hundreds. And, what you should be doing is asking them how you might be able to help them. And then arbitrage the information you collect.

Networking successfully is based on two things

1-talking to a lot of people that make sense for you.

2-and this is more important- offer to help them in some way first. Don't ask for shit. In any business, someone needs something (a cheaper vendor, an employee with a certain skill, better software, a sales lead, there is always a 'something') and they don't exactly know where to find that something. Pay attention to the person and what they say to you, make a note, and then put the pieces together. I meet a lot of people and I find that the ones that stick out in my memory are the ones that took the extra steps to help solve a problem, not the countless numbers of people that asked for something.

You're obviously good at math, so this will come to you quickly. If you talk to 30 or 50 or even 100 people about what their problems are, and what they have to offer, you will find the opportunities to make connections. You will stand out in their mind as someone who gets things done. That beats an Ivy League degree in most peoples' books.

Sep 7, 2017

That's a very good profile. Have you tried networking/ cold calling enough? Sometimes, it is just one call that you will get you a foot in the door.

Sep 7, 2017

Based on the info provided you do seem to have a strong profile, but to play devils advocate I'll counter and ask you what you think you are doing wrong.

"it was a year graduate scheme, my company didn't want to sponsor my Visa to keep me on"

I read this as you have 100% certainty that you were hired to work for one year and your employer had zero intention of ever offering you you full time position - no matter your performance, skills, or what you brought to the table. Is that a possibility? Yes. Is it how I would recommend thinking about the situation? No so much. What could you have done better, where did you find your weaknesses were while working there. What was your role and how did you perform on a quantitative level.

Remember, just playing devils advocate here. You could be doing nothing wrong, and in a few months could be on a 20 year career path that many people dream about.

From an potential new employer's standpoint, the statement I quoted sounds like you are unemployed because the company didn't think it was worth the trade off to hire you, and instead of analyzing any circumstance in which you could have done better, the company is to blame.

Obviously I am just basing that off of a sentence you wrote, but if you said in some interviews it would most likely hinder your chances of converting.

Do you bring that up when reaching out to recruiters/networking or instead discuss what is actually going to land you a job, your past experiences, strong background and impressive merits.

"I'm not fat. I'm cultivating mass."

Sep 7, 2017

tp6cl41994, way too quiet in here. What about these resources:

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  • More suggestions...

No promises, but sometimes if we mention a user, they will share their wisdom: @khuupa @hshape @Matti-Hanni

Hope that helps.

Sep 7, 2017

Hope your situation improved a little since last time! I am not too familiar with the UK GPA system, so I can't comment on it, but there is one glaring missing factor from your post: no networking. Networking is everything in this field, find alumnis and cold call them!

Sep 7, 2017
Sep 7, 2017

Ill take a look if you'd like.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Sep 7, 2017
Sep 7, 2017

Cast a wider net, coming from a senior at a non-target. It's rough out there man, take what you can get.

Sep 7, 2017
eriginal:

Cast a wider net, coming from a senior at a non-target. It's rough out there man, take what you can get.

Believe me man, I have. I didn't even apply to Bulge Bracket banks because I knew I had no chance. I only have been cold emailing boutiques (local boutiques and I'm not from a big city) and trying to reach out to the few MM firms I applied to, but no dice. That's why I'm so frustrated, but I guess it is important during this process to remember that I'm not the only one that's having trouble in order to keep perspective.

Happy: I'm sending the PM right now

Sep 7, 2017

I mean not just investment banking; equity research, corporate finance and big 4. Cold email/call boutiques as most recruit on an as need basis and you might get lucky. I wanted IB and ended up with a great ER offer, don't limit your chances man.

Sep 7, 2017

Tried those as well, still nothing

Sep 7, 2017
Sep 7, 2017

MSF or MMS?

"When I was young I thought that money was the most important thing in life; now that I am old I know that it is."
- Oscar Wilde
"Seriously, psychology is for those with two x chromosomes."
- RagnarDanneskjold

Sep 7, 2017

Refer to an earlier post: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/39-gpa-semi-...
A lot of the responses are very enlightening.

Sep 7, 2017

Cool story. Tell it again.

Sep 7, 2017

Maybe its your resume?

Sep 7, 2017

Maybe you typed your email incorrectly on your resume

Sep 7, 2017

Send them into the black hole of online apps or all through OCR?

Best of luck with online apps, I have yet to hear of someone getting a non-automated response from those..

rufiolove:

When evaluating whether or not to post something on WSO, I think to myself, "would an idiot post this" and if the answer is yes, I do not post that thing...

Sep 7, 2017

You go to a non-target and you have OCR for consulting gig? lucky, i def go 2 a super non-target literally no OCR for consulting we get B.O/M.O more B.O though..

Sep 7, 2017

Network, Network, Network...even if you are at the top ivys, OCR is not the only place to go

XX

Sep 7, 2017

I agree with Pike; network. LinkedIn, events... Upgrade that CV, sell youyrself, offers from MBB are not easy to get...

Sep 7, 2017

Threedot of the places you've applied how many employees of those firms have you spoken to? This is a serious question.

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.