Student at target/semi target school with a gpa above 3.5 but still not great. Also have decent relevant experience on resume but not getting any interviews at all.
What should my game plan be for right now?
I also applied to some small banks that posted on my career site, but they don't have school alumni working there. Should I bother networking with those banks?
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Are you applying for internships or for full-time roles?
Did you network
In order of significance
1) Networking
2) Target / Non-Target
3) GPA
I did, but maybe not enough. I just got phone calls with some ppl at the banks I applied to
I would keep networking, if you realize that you're not good at networking for whatever the reason, try to make adjustments or even ask for feedback from the person speaking with you. Your game plan from this point forward to be constantly networking and improving the way you speak with teams.
If you know that you're not good at networking then you should be looking to try out different ways to improve.
I've read further down and wanted to also point out that it is arguably harder to get an internship than a full-time position (one leads to the other). If you go into this process with a defeatist attitude you're better off not starting.
Similar situation at a target, high GPA, finance experience - got straight up rejected without first round from a BB recently (tbf I hadn't networked there, but still). Having much better luck in AM than IB
One fucking firm didn't give you an interview & you think they owe you something? LOL. They literally screen through hundreds of resumes & a lot of it has to do with luck if you don't know anyone there.
Strongly second this. Youre a nut @margin_caller1". There are kids at targets with 3.9s getting rejected from MM regional banks and you have the audacity to complain about one rejection from a firm when you have no IBD experience? Thank God for people like you, doing minimal networking and then complaining when you arent considered a top candidate with zero effort. You are the reason non-targets get opportunities to break into finance. I have friends at targets and semis who spent hundreds of hours networking with anyone who would hop on the phone with them just to get a chance at a first round. Figure it out or find a nice cushy sales position where the staff drools over your POS resume
Lol it is honestly hilarious. I've met so many people from allegedly pristine colleges who are completely terrible to deplorable. Don't even get me started on the white/asain race hustlers from ivies who get into diversity events with their bullshit clubs & history dept research "internship" haha.
I think in general that ivy people on this site like to be condescending to non-core people because they're insecure as fuck.
You okay bro? Anything you need to talk about?
Not anything someone in Corp Dev could help me with. Didn't know you guys were taking on HR roles, kudos to you for trying to stay busy
Easy on the addy kid.
OP I have had good luck networking with non-alumni, but it is time consuming. My advice: reach out to the smaller boutiques and send custom emails and find literally anything you have in common with them. Still nothing? Look them up on Linkedin and tell them you admire their career path, have similar interests, also like to work for non-profits in your free time, etc. I have had very good luck even in situations where I fucked up big time (they worked in LA not Denver for example), just by personalizing my messages and being sincere and grateful when they hopped on the phone with me. Best of luck
Thanks dude. Yeah, I think I'm just bad at networking, I don't think I am very memorable on the phone. Will start reaching out to more people.
Question, when you reach out to random analysts, do you just hope they are on the recruiting team or do you have a way of finding out?
Basically my advice is don't blanket canvas a firm with all their analysts, they will think you're a sperg. Just choose the one or two you think you would have the best conversation with and reach out. Don't worry about recruiting team nonsense.
i'd argue its a numbers game, good luck
You probably have a POS resume. Network hard and prepare super well for SA interviews.
If this is for full time, you are better off searching for non-IB roles at this point.
I think my resume is fine, I think it's just my gpa that is hurting me but yea, this is for internship not full time
How good is your "relevant experience" though? If it's a solid experience, gpa may be overlooked to a certain degree?
a 3.5 and work experience that is relevant but not recognizable means that you're probably in the middle of the pack of applicants. keep trying to network! it may seem fruitless at times, especially when you're reaching out to people who aren't alumni, but there are people out there who are willing to help. most of them have been in your shoes.
Non-Target: Can't get an interview (Originally Posted: 10/05/2011)
I am a senior mathematics major at Pepperdine University (wasn't my top choice, but I went because of full-ride). I have a 3.85 GPA/720 GMAT along with graduate-level advanced mathematics research at UCLA, and equity research experience at a small hedge fund in Los Angeles. However, I haven't been able to get a callback/interview for ANY of the companies which I've contacted/applied. Any suggestions for someone in my position getting noticed?
You have 8 LinkedIn Connections, if that is representative of the amount of networking you have done then that would explain why you are not getting interviews. Have you tried contacting alumni, friends, people in the industry?
I don't really use linked in...I have tried all of those things yes, but maybe I should try more? I have sent many applications in directly to recruiters and directly through websites.
That's like saying you want to do banking but you don't really use Excel.
That's the market right now, it's the reality that a lot of kids are facing... First of banks didn't have record SA classes this past summer. Secondly, there are extremely high numbers of those same SA's returning to the firm and accepting their offer without shopping it around too much or jumping ship all together. Banks all have their OCR processes too so with 95-100% return rate that leaves what... a few slots left maybe? So those slots are being filled with their OCR candidates so the bank doesn't dick-kick the school/alumni relations w/e. So! That leaves non-targets such as yourself out in the dark.. even my references weren't able to get me 1st rounds at all of the banks I was interested in... so I'd say hello to an MSF, I might be shortly..
Disclaimer: I'm not saying non-targets don't get interviews, it's just tough right now.
I agree with BepBep12 ^^ It is extremely hard out there and he literally laid out the process for these banks for you. Being at a non-target definitely limits your chances by a long shot. With great grades and a solid GMAT score you should probably take your ass to duke or something for an MSF.
yep. name brand matters, like it or not. pony up the $50k and pay for it. you've obviously got the ability, now you just need the rubber stamp.
Thanks guys, I have applied to several MSF's. I didn't realize LinkedIn was so important (I was told some companies ask people to delete their accounts). I have been sneaking into recruiting events at UCLA so maybe that will pan out. I appreciate the suggestions.
.
LinkedIn is super important, even if you're not reaching out to people with it. It establishes a public profile for you that almost every recruiter out there checks up on if you're applying for a job with their company. It allows them to cross reference what you said on your resume with what you've posted on a public profile that is connected to your peers, both from school and from previous work experiences. You can't exactly bullshit a LinkedIn profile that is connected to 400 people that you have worked with / gone to school with previously. There is an implicit check on the bullshit factor, and recruiters take advantage of that. If you don't give them that opportunity, they may just toss your resume in the trash.
Sounds like a check in the box as in... is XYZ candidate a liar? And did they avoid making an ass of themselves on LinkedIN? This kid wouldn't be going through a recruiter anyway, non-targets make/break it through referrals; these guys do the initial B/S screen and then push them on.
The guy is a non-target, how do you suppose he get referrals if he doesn't use LinkedIn? Also it's not just recruiters who check LinkedIn. The referrals the guy is looking to reach out too will check it as well. LinkedIn is your face when it comes to networking, especially if you are a non-target and have experiences with a hedge fund - no one would know that unless they looked at your LinkedIn.
Using LinkedIN should be a last resort for someone looking to make connections... he should do what I did and what every other non-target must do...get off the fucking computer and talk to real live people, do you not read this website? Esp. being a hedge-fund he should mine the fund's relationships, what is so hard about exploiting an opportunity? I'm not hating on LinkedIN, but it's by far not the best/only/most important tool to use when recruiting
nobody said it was the best tool. Looks like all that was said was he needs a profile that he actively maintains. where did you see someone suggest that take the place of real face-to-face networking?
.
Same boat as you are in..I met this one cool alumni who was the best person I networked and was very interested in helping me out and didn't get an interview at his firm.
To some extent it is a numbers game. Networking with a few people is not likely to lead to anything. It should be in the hundreds. And, what you should be doing is asking them how you might be able to help them. And then arbitrage the information you collect.
Networking successfully is based on two things
1-talking to a lot of people that make sense for you.
2-and this is more important- offer to help them in some way first. Don't ask for shit. In any business, someone needs something (a cheaper vendor, an employee with a certain skill, better software, a sales lead, there is always a 'something') and they don't exactly know where to find that something. Pay attention to the person and what they say to you, make a note, and then put the pieces together. I meet a lot of people and I find that the ones that stick out in my memory are the ones that took the extra steps to help solve a problem, not the countless numbers of people that asked for something.
You're obviously good at math, so this will come to you quickly. If you talk to 30 or 50 or even 100 people about what their problems are, and what they have to offer, you will find the opportunities to make connections. You will stand out in their mind as someone who gets things done. That beats an Ivy League degree in most peoples' books.
Seems like a shoo-in but can't land an interview (Originally Posted: 08/14/2017)
Hey Guys,
I'm back again on the job hunt and trying to stay positive. I've just returned to NY from a year working in London at an algo trading firm (it was a year graduate scheme, my company didn't want to sponsor my Visa to keep me on). A bit about me:
BA in Economics, Minor in Math, GPA 3.72 from a non-target NYC university - graduated in 2014 1 year professional experience (working in London) Investment Management Certificate Fulbright Scholar in Economics College Fed Challenge team member (winning team and honourable mention) Proficient in 5 languages Good computer skills (including Bloomberg and MATLAB)
At my last shop I met the Global Head of Algo sales at JPM at a team dinner. We had good conversation and he said that I was the whole package for a job at an IB. Now that I've been on the job hunt and gone through some video interviews I think that they were just empty words. I reached out to him, but he gave me no response. Recruiters don't get back to me or just ignore me.
Even though I graduated a few years ago, I'm still low-balling and applying to some paid FT internships just to get a foot in the door in addition to entry-level positions. If all goes well, I plan to start my master's in Applied Math in the Fall 2018. My end goal is to become an FX quant.
I'm persistent and never going to give up, but I'd like to know what I lack or am doing wrong that causes me to get passed over for things that I apply to. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks.
That's a very good profile. Have you tried networking/ cold calling enough? Sometimes, it is just one call that you will get you a foot in the door.
Based on the info provided you do seem to have a strong profile, but to play devils advocate I'll counter and ask you what you think you are doing wrong.
"it was a year graduate scheme, my company didn't want to sponsor my Visa to keep me on"
I read this as you have 100% certainty that you were hired to work for one year and your employer had zero intention of ever offering you you full time position - no matter your performance, skills, or what you brought to the table. Is that a possibility? Yes. Is it how I would recommend thinking about the situation? No so much. What could you have done better, where did you find your weaknesses were while working there. What was your role and how did you perform on a quantitative level.
Remember, just playing devils advocate here. You could be doing nothing wrong, and in a few months could be on a 20 year career path that many people dream about.
From an potential new employer's standpoint, the statement I quoted sounds like you are unemployed because the company didn't think it was worth the trade off to hire you, and instead of analyzing any circumstance in which you could have done better, the company is to blame.
Obviously I am just basing that off of a sentence you wrote, but if you said in some interviews it would most likely hinder your chances of converting.
Do you bring that up when reaching out to recruiters/networking or instead discuss what is actually going to land you a job, your past experiences, strong background and impressive merits.
Why am I not getting any interview for summer internship (London) (Originally Posted: 01/20/2018)
Hi guys, so I’ve been applying for an internship (asset management and real estate investment) since last October and the replies I have had so far were either a rejection (either because the position has filled up or a simple rejection) or constant emails saying my application is still under review.
The company I’ve applied ranges from the most prestige IB to the medium size investment firm in London. Many of the larger firms sent out multiple emails to me stating my application is still under consideration but reject me in the end because the position has filled up (HSBC, for example, sent me five emails before they rejected me...). For the smaller firms, I normally get a rejection pretty quickly. However, my CV was reviewed by an ex-intern (due to start full-time this summer) from Goldman Sachs at the EFM society in my uni. He thought my CV was good and only advice he gave me was on the format. The career office at my uni also gave positive feedbacks to my CV and cover letter.
I am not saying my background and my cover letter is incredible, but I don't think they are that bad either. I've passed all the numerical tests but have not received even a first round interview by any of the companies and am starting to wonder if I am missing something? I am an international student, and I know full-time jobs need to be filled with local first, but is it the same for the internship? Here is a simple summary of my background. Could someone please advise me on where I am lacking and how I can improve?
-Undergrad in economics at Bristol U (2:1) -Currently a master student at UCL -Internship in wealth management and real estate development (both in Asia) -part-time job in Bristol but not really relevant. -Play sports (1st team) in uni and high school. -Committee member of two societies.
I've included the relevant skills (leadership, teamwork etc.) in both my CV and cover letter and showed I have proficient knowledge of excel and powerpoint gained from my experience. The only thing I can think of which I’m lacking is experience in trading. I used to invest in forex with simulation money but nothing more. Is my background really just not impressive enough to even get a first round interview? Or is it something else? (international student so VISA?) Please help!
tp6cl41994, way too quiet in here. What about these resources:
No promises, but sometimes if we mention a user, they will share their wisdom: khuupa hshape Matti-Hanni
Hope that helps.
Hope your situation improved a little since last time! I am not too familiar with the UK GPA system, so I can't comment on it, but there is one glaring missing factor from your post: no networking. Networking is everything in this field, find alumnis and cold call them!
Senior Who Can't Land A Single IB Interview Needs Help (Originally Posted: 02/13/2012)
Hi guys,
I'm a senior desperately looking for work in i-banking with long-term goals of working in corporate development or MM private equity. I was wondering if anyone would be willing to take a look at my resume if I PM them with a link. I would post my razume link here, but too many of my friends frequent this site, so I'm worried that they'll easily figure out who I am. If you don't mind posting in here asking me to PM you, I'd be happy to send you a link to my anonymous resume for greater editing. I have a good GPA with some ECs, but I just can't get anywhere in the i-banking world (yes, I go to a non-target), so if anyone has any advice, that would be great.
Thanks!
MSF
Ill take a look if you'd like.
how good do u interivew?
Cast a wider net, coming from a senior at a non-target. It's rough out there man, take what you can get.
Believe me man, I have. I didn't even apply to Bulge Bracket banks because I knew I had no chance. I only have been cold emailing boutiques (local boutiques and I'm not from a big city) and trying to reach out to the few MM firms I applied to, but no dice. That's why I'm so frustrated, but I guess it is important during this process to remember that I'm not the only one that's having trouble in order to keep perspective.
Happy: I'm sending the PM right now
I mean not just investment banking; equity research, corporate finance and big 4. Cold email/call boutiques as most recruit on an as need basis and you might get lucky. I wanted IB and ended up with a great ER offer, don't limit your chances man.
Tried those as well, still nothing
Bump for more help
MSF or MMS?
Not getting any Consulting interviews. (Originally Posted: 02/04/2012)
3.6, non-target. Applied to about every firm. Not a single response was given.
Two pending OCR right now.
Refer to an earlier post: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/39-gpa-semi-target-hard-sciencema…
A lot of the responses are very enlightening.
Cool story. Tell it again.
Maybe its your resume?
Maybe you typed your email incorrectly on your resume
Send them into the black hole of online apps or all through OCR?
Best of luck with online apps, I have yet to hear of someone getting a non-automated response from those..
You go to a non-target and you have OCR for consulting gig? lucky, i def go 2 a super non-target literally no OCR for consulting we get B.O/M.O more B.O though..
Network, Network, Network...even if you are at the top ivys, OCR is not the only place to go
I agree with Pike; network. LinkedIn, events... Upgrade that CV, sell youyrself, offers from MBB are not easy to get...
Threedot of the places you've applied how many employees of those firms have you spoken to? This is a serious question.
Will BBs notify you if you don't get an interview? (Originally Posted: 01/01/2013)
Just wondering if you apply through OCR or the banks website will they at least tell you if you did not get an interview?
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